95 réponses à ce sujet

[Aezint]

I can't seem to remember the plot holes I have forgotten.

[IntoTheDarkness]

*sigh* If harbinger blew up the Normandy what do you think people would be complaining about right now? The fact that there are plot holes? Or the fact that the game ends with harbinger blowing up the Normandy and everybody dies on the beam run?

 

At some point you have stop saying "that's unrealistic" in a game about 2km long space squids and enjoy the game instead of looking for things that don't make sense (to you).

 

Look, if it's just Harbinger not blowing up the Normandy, I would perhaps be content. As I said, I can overlook 'some' plotholes.

However, in 3 minutes of the beam run...

 

Shepard claims that there will be no retreat before the attack. As soon as some squadmates get injured he call evac. WTF?

You could stand there for 1 hour in the beam run and Harbinger will never kill you. WTF2?

5 seconds after you call Normandy, it appears out of nowhere. 5. seconds. WTF3?

Normandy shouldn't be able to land on ground easily. That's what mako is for. WTF4?

Harbinger doesn't attack Normandy. WTF5?

Shepard doesn't die from the reaper attack. WTF6?

Why is there a beam in the first place? Why didn't reapers shut it down? Are reapers that dumb? WTF7?

Harbinger just lifts off as if it has an ungent business elsewhere. TWF8?

Before the beam was installed London is the target of the allied force. TWF9?

 

God damn it. It's not even every 20 min. ME3 makes me laugh at its plot holes at every 30 second. How can anybody look past every one of these that raises its ugly head throughout the game is beyond me.

 

At this point this is not even a mistake; it's almost as if the authors were trying to deliberately not make sense in every possible plot point.

[ZipZap2000]

I understand the argument about suspension of disbelief Lakus.

 

I just think it's beyond reasonable to apply it to every single scene of a movie/book/video game and expect to be taken seriously when you are in fact looking for reasons not to do it.

 

Worse yet if you are looking for reasons no to do it why blame the book/movie/video game when clearly you made a conscious decision to do so regardless of the content before it had even been presented to you in the first place.

 

"You bring it on yourselves"

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I wouldn't say "forgotten". It's more like "I didn't notice these on my first ME3 playthrough, but after seeing the ending, I took a closer look at everything and found out how many inconsistencies there really are."

[Iakus]

I understand the argument about suspension of disbelief Lakus.

 

I just think it's beyond reasonable to apply it to every single scene of a movie/book/video game and expect to be taken seriously when you are in fact looking for reasons not to do it.

 

Worse yet if you are looking for reasons no to do it why blame the book/movie/video game when clearly you made a conscious decision to do so regardless of the content before it had even been presented to you in the first place.

 

"You bring it on yourselves"

 

I don't need to look for reasons.  They're right there in front of me.

 

A huge part of making something believable is consistency.  Following the rules set for that universe.  ME3 (and earlier) broke those rules, set them on fire, and danced on the ashes.  

 

The spell is broken.  The art has failed.

[Aezint]

Look, if it's just Harbinger not blowing up the Normandy, I would perhaps be content. As I said, I can overlook 'some' plotholes.

However, in 3 minutes of the beam run...

 

Shepard claims that there will be no retreat before the attack. As soon as some squadmates get injured he call evac. WTF?

You could stand there for 1 hour in the beam run and Harbinger will never kill you. WTF2?

5 seconds after you call Normandy, it appears out of nowhere. 5. seconds. WTF3?

Normandy shouldn't be able to land on ground easily. That's what mako is for. WTF4?

Harbinger doesn't attack Normandy. WTF5?

Shepard doesn't die from the reaper attack. WTF6?

Why is there a beam in the first place? Why didn't reapers shut it down? Are reapers that dumb? WTF7?

Harbinger just lifts off as if it has an ungent business elsewhere. TWF8?

Before the beam was installed London is the target of the allied force. TWF9?

 

God damn it. It's not even every 20 min. ME3 makes me laugh at its plot holes at every 30 second. How can anybody look past every one of these that raises its ugly head throughout the game is beyond me.

 

At this point this is not even a mistake; it's almost as if the authors were trying to deliberately not make sense in every possible plot point.

At that point ME3 was already sinking in flames, and I stopped caring about the details.  So chalk it up to failure on the writer's part.

[ZipZap2000]

You clearly did look for reasons because by that point in the game (EC  beam run) the focus has shifted away from 'what's reasonable within the universe' to the extra scenes that provide clarity as to what happened to your squad mates that magically reappeared on the Normandy during to original ending. You either accept that they got everyone onto the Normandy and got out of there or you start looking for ways to tear it apart.

[angol fear]

That state of mind has been called “willing suspension of disbelief.”  But this does not seem to me a good description of what happens. What really happens is that the story-maker proves a successful “sub-creator.”  He makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is “true”: it accords with the laws of that world.  You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from outside. If you are obliged, by kindliness or circumstance, to stay, then disbelief must be suspended (or stifled), otherwise listening and looking would become intolerable. 

 

J. R. R. Tolkien

Tolkien wrote science-fiction?

 

edit : Oh I didn't see that one :"The spell is broken. The art has failed." Sorry for you but Tolkien didn't write art. And you should really learn about history of art (even Literature).

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I think the most annoying plothole for me would be everything involving the rachni.

ME1 rachni queen seems kind and gentle.
ME2 rachni messenger says they'll join Shepard in the fight against the Reapers when the time comes.

ME3... Where do I begin? First, Shepard and the squad repeatedly tell the lie "She promised to go away forever," which doesn't match up with ME2 at all. Next, the whole atmosphere of the mission is set up to give you this "creepy, untrustworthy" vibe from the rachni queen. And to top it off, it looks like a renegade action to rescue her.

And then there's the fact that ME3 makes quarians look like idiots and geth look like innocent victims. Why? Why do that all of a sudden? It makes no sense. Of course, you have to remember, everything you see in the geth consensus is propaganda, biased for the geth's point of view. But not every player is going to know that.

[themikefest]

*sigh* If harbinger blew up the Normandy what do you think people would be complaining about right now? The fact that there are plot holes? Or the fact that the game ends with harbinger blowing up the Normandy and everybody dies on the beam run?

 

At some point you have stop saying "that's unrealistic" in a game about 2km long space squids and enjoy the game instead of looking for things that don't make sense (to you).

That's  exactly what should've happened. It was stupid to have the Normandy come in to pick up 2 people.

 

It would be easier for Shepard to tell the squadmates to stay in cover, Shepard continues to the beam and when its clear, the squadmates call for a shuttle. But no, we have to have the what-the-crap evac scene to say goodbye a 2nd time for whatever reason when we already did that 30 minutes ago

[IntoTheDarkness]

You clearly did look for reasons because by that point in the game (EC  beam run) the focus has shifted away from 'what's reasonable within the universe' to the extra scenes that provide clarity as to what happened to your squad mates that magically reappeared on the Normandy during to original ending. You either accept that they got everyone onto the Normandy and got out of there or you start looking for ways to tear it apart.

 

No, actually I was 'WTF'king before EC, from the start of ME3, throughout the end of ME3. Why do you think the spectrum of plot holes in ME3 is restricted to only the scenes at the end? I already said that I can easily come up with 20 plot holes off my head and I had moments when I laughed my ass off at least every 30 minute playing ME3 from my blind playthrough. Some of the reasons I listed come from pre-EC.

 

I can compose the same list I did above from the beginning of the game to the end. ME3 is a game trodden by a hundreds-legged plothole occtopus over and over in a roundtrip. It's frankly a disastrous mess in terms of plot integrity, EC or not, Ending or not, DLC or not, speculation or not.

[ZipZap2000]

@mikefest

 

So if I hear you right you're saying Shepard didn't take cover therefore it sucks. And if they'd sent the shuttle the same argument presents itself "why didn't harby shoot it" and "But the shuttle got blown up already".

 

The reason we got the airlift is because people were complaining that it didn't make sense without one, now they have it and they're complaining that it doesn't make sense with it. 

 

In essence it's a less blatant rerun of the old "I want a new ending" argument.  

[themikefest]

  

@mikefest

 

So if I hear you right you're saying Shepard didn't take cover therefore it sucks. And if they'd sent the shuttle the same argument presents itself "why didn't harby shoot it" and "But the shuttle got blown up already".

 

The reason we got the airlift is because people were complaining that it didn't make sense without one, now they have it and they're complaining that it doesn't make sense with it. 

 

In essence it's a less blatant rerun of the old "I want a new ending" argument.  

They had cover until the Normandy showed up. The two squadmates can call for a shutlle when its clear. Isn't that what I posted? Yes it is.  It wouldn't make sense to call for a shuttle  if Harbunger is still there, right?  They call for the shuttle after Harbinger leaves. If the ems is low enough(below 1900) it plays out the same with both squadmates getting killed.

 

If they had the evac scene to explain the squadmates getting back on the Normandy, then what's the explanation for Steve getting back on the Normandy?

[angol fear]

 

 

If they had the evac scene to explain the squadmates getting back on the Normandy, then what's the explanation for Steve getting back on the Normandy?

 

Then Bioware had to create another digression, when they wanted the player to focus on Shepard.

[Iakus]

Tolkien wrote science-fiction?

edit : Oh I didn't see that one :"The spell is broken. The art has failed." Sorry for you but Tolkien didn't write art. And you should really learn about history of art (even Literature).

What is anything you wrote here have to do with anything?

[ZipZap2000]

@mikefest well that's not even in the game we can speculate on shoulda woulda coulda all we like it doesn't change anything.

[Excella Gionne]

I take issue with the first sentence. 'Unprecedented in narrative gaming history'? Sorry, but... there are games with far more plot-holes than ME3.

 

As for plot holes... I don't want to join in on a "Let's bash Mass Effect" thread, so I'll just push a funny one. When the heck does Shepard ever eat? I'm not even sure he got to eat anything at that Sushi place before the Mercs showed up and broke the fish tank...

Eating is too mainstream. Drinking endlessly without bathroom breaks is the only way to save a galaxy.

[Excella Gionne]

It is safe to say that the writers thought as they went along, but ME2 was the only game where if you pay very close attention, unused plot elements still remain but it is never expanded upon much further and is dismissed like it never happened. The biggest plot hole will be the Human-Proto-Reaper. That one must have been the hardest plot hole to eliminate considering its unforgettable presence in ME2. ME3 simply tosses it out of the airlock while maintaining pieces of it just to let you know it existed. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

It is safe to say that the writers thought as they went along, but ME2 was the only game where if you pay very close attention, unused plot elements still remain but it is never expanded upon much further and is dismissed like it never happened. The biggest plot hole will be the Human-Proto-Reaper. That one must have been the hardest plot hole to eliminate considering its unforgettable presence in ME2. ME3 simply tosses it out of the airlock while maintaining pieces of it just to let you know it existed. 

 

Destroying it in ME2 is the worst. It hurts me to have it show up in Cronos Station... somehow, after the giant explosion, placement near blackholes, etc.

 

Sometimes I feel like the writers are treating players with open contempt.

[Farangbaa]

*sigh* If harbinger blew up the Normandy what do you think people would be complaining about right now? The fact that there are plot holes? Or the fact that the game ends with harbinger blowing up the Normandy and everybody dies on the beam run?

 

At some point you have stop saying "that's unrealistic" in a game about 2km long space squids and enjoy the game instead of looking for things that don't make sense (to you).

 

This, people, this.

[Farangbaa]

Of course, you have to remember, everything you see in the geth consensus is propaganda, biased for the geth's point of view. But not every player is going to know that.

Well who would've thought entering the shared thoughts of the Geth would give you the Geth's point of view?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Assuming the Reapers are totally incompetent at their job of "preserving" organic life, and lose half the Reapers they build, that's still 10,000+

 

And that's not including the destroyers

They can only make one big boy a cycle. Now maybe they get lucky, shut off the relays, and can manage to not lose any Sovereigns once in a while, but more often than not, the Reapers must be careful. 

Only 77, the largest concentration of Reapers, by a considerable margin, are at Earth. Only twelve were available to hit Arcturus station. 

From all the in-game evidence, it's a couple hundred big guys and a couple hundred more small guys. 

Destroyers are also very susceptible to cruisers. They also must have a high death rate. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Well who would've thought entering the shared thoughts of the Geth would give you the Geth's point of view?

 

Wasn't Shepard pursuing data that the Reapers had corrupted, or whatever? I think the writers could have easily integrated a more inquisitive Shepard, a Quarian in the scene, or have some videos that balance out the two (isn't the video data random?).

[Farangbaa]

I have no idea what Shepard was doing there.

[Gladerunner]

ME1: If Saren is a Spectre, why did he need to assault Eden Prime? He could intercept the Beacon on the Citadel, cite his Spectre status, and sabotage it if need be.

 

Also, if Nihlus is inspecting Shepards performance, shouldn't they be moving at the same pace?

 

And why do Ashley William's shield hold when they rip through Jenkins? (Besides the fact his last name is Jenkins...)

 

 

ME2: If the Collectors have been doing a stellar job of protecting their side of the Omega 4 Relay, why don't the Reapers hide there too? They have their own shielding, so they could obviousely survive. Any ship that gets through either gets torn apart by the environment, or the thousands of Reapers taking shifts on guard duty. All they have to do is make sure no ship escapes through FTL, which none have done with just the Collectors there.

 

...Wait, if the Normandy escapes through FTL, doesn't that mean ships can travel there through FTL too, and not use the Omega 4 Relay?

 

Did Shepard really have to solo the Arrival? I know it's so they didn't have to hire additional voice actors, and to add it some flavor, but having backup nearby would have been handy.

 

ME3: Too many to list. Too many to remember.

 

Just one for thought: If we take the Relay explosions literally, in that they explode in perfectly horizontal explosions, couldn't one escape them by going FTL directly up? Joker might have spared the Normandy and EDI by doing so. Hell, the Geth might have survived by going through the Relay, then up.

Why hide a Space station between stars when you can hide them above them?