158 réponses à ce sujet

[Aulis Vaara]

Possession of souled beings is an established thing the lore. Primarily demons taking over mages, but also allegedly Flemeth and her daughters. So I assume he was possessing the Warden with a deliberate attack rather than using the Archdemon automatic ejector soul.

Of course when magic is involved there is always an element of it works the way the writers say it does.

You can't possess someone if you are dead. And as far as we know, only spirits can possess others. We have no evidence for anyone else. Flemeth might be able to, but she hasn't done so yet.

And saying a wizard did it really isn't good enough.

[SardaukarElite]

You can't possess someone if you are dead. And as far as we know, only spirits can possess others. We have no evidence for anyone else. Flemeth might be able to, but she hasn't done so yet.

And saying a wizard did it really isn't good enough.

 

I agree, but at the same time there has to be a certain tolerance for not everything be explained in precise rules. As they haven't explained what he did, we can't know that it was breaking the rules established for Archdemons.

 

Corypheus was defeated in battle and the choice determined Warden gets soul hijacked. Maybe he died and used the Archdemon trick, but had plot protection. Maybe he possessed the Warden while dying. Maybe he'd been carefully grooming both Wardens for possession for a long time.

[Jazzpha]

Assuming that the untainted soul of an old god is inherently evil would be shockingly narrow-minded on the writers' part, I think.

What's wrong with wanting to preserve a piece of the "old world", exactly? Morrigan herself says the child is "an innocent" who knows nothing of what awaits him, so it feels like BW is going hardcore "nature v. nurture" here, in a way.

Labeling one "religion" as objectively evil in the story implicitly gives primacy to the other one, and that would be kind of obnoxious.

[Aulis Vaara]

I agree, but at the same time there has to be a certain tolerance for not everything be explained in precise rules. As they haven't explained what he did, we can't know that it was breaking the rules established for Archdemons.

 

Corypheus was defeated in battle and the choice determined Warden gets soul hijacked. Maybe he died and used the Archdemon trick, but had plot protection. Maybe he possessed the Warden while dying. Maybe he'd been carefully grooming both Wardens for possession for a long time.

 

Well. It is entirely possible that the reason an Archdemon can't go into a Grey Warden is because they are part Archdemon themselves (they take in the blood at their Joining) and that the soul actually doesn't have anything to do with it. An Archdemon might just not be able to take over another Archdemon, to prevent backstabbing. However, that still leaves the question about why Corypheus doesn't have such a restriction. Knowing that there is a difference and throwing arund some conjecture really isn't the same thing as knowing how something works.

[Aren]

It would be awesome for the Dark Ritual to pay off in Inquisition and have Uthemriel fighting on your side. *Uthemriel flies over a small army of Demons and burns them all alive* That's my boy! But I kind of hope that won't be the case.

 

Performing the Dark Ritual was a no brainer. "I get to have sex with Morrigan and slay the Arch Demon without dying? Yes! Why would I not do this?! Me and I'm sure the majority of other players all did the ritual. I would like to have some consequences for making the easy decision instead of being rewarded for it.

Never performed the dark ritual , and for  good reasons this is flemeth plans and i know flemeth is 10 times clever than morrigan,and she wish to do something.

In DAO No pain Loghain

[Subtle54]

The moment a woman asks you to impregnate her so that she can create a vessel for the soul of an old god is actually the best time use your brain.  The big brain. 

 

No little brain here, just a damn DAO mod, knew that lesbian baby making dark ritual was going to come back and haunt me.

[Queen Rowan]

Am I the only one who wants to see the reaction on Alistair's face when he sees the child for the first time? #priceless

[Magdalena11]

I think it would be really fitting if wardens who didn't do the ritual but survived the blight by feeding Alistair/Loghain to the archdemon suffered some sort of negative consequence.  As it stands now, a warden can assume an attitude of moral superiority for not giving in to Morrigan's questionable magic and ride away on their high horse a hero (and kill off an unwanted companion in the process.)  A HN male could then marry Anora and become prince-consort of Ferelden, even.  

 

I am aware that the DR will probably be of relatively minor significance, and I also know that two wrongs don't make a right.  Some people sacrificed their wardens and others felt compelled to do something they didn't want to, and others lost their LI, and souring the experience for players who got to have their cake and eat it too doesn't really make DAO's ending better for anyone.

 

This is why I'm all in favor of the Warden not appearing in DAI at all, having none of the romances from DAO still be active, and having Anora quietly retire her husband as soon as the public had a new crisis to occupy itself with.  Alistair's wife did make a sacrifice to remain consort, so she might be allowed a pass, but if it meant everyone would be treated equally, then I'll give her up too.

[Cratto]

I like the old God baby storyline. It's far more interesting than heroic self sacrifice as it opens up possibilities down the line.

Is the Old God inherently evil? Or is it twisted by the Darkspawn when they awaken it. Will bring human change it in any way.

Plus also - my warden(ess) was deeply in love with Leliana. So it's Alastair's problem.

Would be interesting if it's just a damp squib. Old God baby is nothing special.

As for corypheus, he wasn't an Old God but rather a powerful Mage, twisted when he tried to become a God himself into a Darkspawn. Perhaps that difference allows him to transfer over and he seemed to have greater power over wardens and others than what we saw from a archdemon had.

[budzai]

If it was done they day morrigan be more human and probably nicer and less chaotic nuetral

you mean chaotic impure, right? she is worse than netural...

[budzai]

Assuming that the untainted soul of an old god is inherently evil would be shockingly narrow-minded on the writers' part, I think.

What's wrong with wanting to preserve a piece of the "old world", exactly? Morrigan herself says the child is "an innocent" who knows nothing of what awaits him, so it feels like BW is going hardcore "nature v. nurture" here, in a way.

Labeling one "religion" as objectively evil in the story implicitly gives primacy to the other one, and that would be kind of obnoxious.

may be you didn't notice but old "gods" is always corrupted by darkspawns... I don't think they are so good guys...

[In Exile]

To achieve full godhood the OGB must consume the life of the Warden that conceived him...meaning he needs to kill your Warden/Alistair/Loghain, so the thing you did to save your Warden ends up killing them later.

wouldn't that be a punch to the nuts.

It would be contrived because the only way the OGB could pull that off would be if it's done through cutscene magic.

[SugarBabe49]

My wardens were kinda all over the place when it came to the Dark Ritual. Some grudgingly accepted it, some flat out rejected it and others jumped at the chance to bed the witch. (Bear in mind - Loghain never survived any of my playthrough so he has no effect them)

 

My Human Noble (Female) was in a romance with Alistair and had him do the Dark Ritual (So sorry Ali!). I also have two saves where they don't do the ritual and both die taking down Archdemon.

 

My Dalish Elf (Female) wasn't in a romance with anyone Tamlen and refused the Dark Ritual, made Alistair King and killed the Archdemon. (This will be the first playthrough I import into Inquisition)

 

My Dalish Elf (Male) was in a romance with Zevran and accepted the Dark Ritual. (He and Alistair stayed with Grey Wardens)

 

My Human mage (Female) didn't romance anyone and refused Dark Ritual. Both saves, each one dies. (Stays with Grey Wardens)

 

My Human Mage (Male) was pretty much power hungry and accepted the Dark Ritual purely so he could have a powerful child. (This should be interesting to import...) He makes Alistair King.

 

My Noble Dwarf (Female) romanced no-one and refused Dark Ritual. Both die. Both stay with Grey Wardens.

 

My Commoner Dwarf (Male) romanced no-one and accepted Dark Ritual. Both stay with Grey Warden.

 

My Elf Mage (Female) romanced Leliana and refused Dark Ritual. Alistair dies. (sorry buddy)

 

My Human Noble (Male) Romanced Morrigan and accepted the Dark Ritual. There are two saves where he doesn't and both he and Alistair dies.

 

However - I am far more curious about the slides that says Morrigan was pregnant with the Male Warden's Child (if in a romance with him) despite not accepting the Dark Ritual. Morrigan even confirms it herself in Witch Hunt DLC that they have a child together(?) Would that impact the storyline in some way?

[Cyrus Amell]

My Human Mage (Male) was pretty much power hungry and accepted the Dark Ritual purely so he could have a powerful child. (This should be interesting to import...) He makes Alistair King.
 

 

My only preferred game on Origins was a Human Mage who did exactly the same thing, although having a powerful child never really occurred to me as any kind of bonus. He had been romanced by Morrigan, and she offered him a way to continue his life. What drove him to do this? Love, like as not, mixed with an interest in the magics of this ritual and his own desire to make a choice about his destiny. As a Circle Mage he did not have control over his fate despite his personal powers, and being forced into an early death to kill the Archdemon seemed one more predetermined choice that he had no say over. The choice of freedom at that moment was in his eyes choosing to sleep with a foxy witch who he was already madly in love with... what else could he have done?

 

Perhaps he is haunted by this secret choice, when he betrayed everything it meant to be a Grey Warden for his own ends. But he has a son, he has Morrigan, and he has more Darkspawn to kill. So in the end, morality be damned and let the world burn.

[Ryzaki]

Meh DR isn't my issue. I threw Loghain at the archdemon so Morrigan could take her manipulative harpy ass elsewhere.

 

I hope my Inquisition gets the chance to do something similar.

[vertigomez]

Welp~ controversial opinion here.

I played a lot of female Wardens in DAO, which meant that you had to "convince" Alistair (or Loghain, I suppose) to do it... and considering the fact that the dude's a virgin who doesn't take sex lightly, I mean... you're telling him to sire a bastard son with a woman he hates, and never have any part in the child's life eeeven though he himself is a bastard son with abandonment issues, just to save your own butt. Plus, the way he reacts if you fail that persuade check will make you feel like a dirty, cowardly worm.

I can only do it with characters who DGAF about his feelings, honestly. Or characters who genuinely believe that the pure, untainted soul of an Old God could mean the end of the Blights/a happier future for Thedas. Though I know many people are fine with the DR and I'm not accusing anybody of anything. *ducks flames*

I just feel like female PCs got the raw end of the deal, here.

[Cyrus Amell]

I quite agree with your assessment Vertigomez, for men the decision is pretty easy.

 

1. Sleep with the seductive Witch and be the first person to survive killing an Archdemon

2. Refuse and either immortalize yourself by killing the damn thing or get Loghain/Alistair to do it.

 

For women it is a lot more complicated to say the least.

[Icy Magebane]

Welp~ controversial opinion here.

I played a lot of female Wardens in DAO, which meant that you had to "convince" Alistair (or Loghain, I suppose) to do it... and considering the fact that the dude's a virgin who doesn't take sex lightly, I mean... you're telling him to sire a bastard son with a woman he hates, and never have any part in the child's life eeeven though he himself is a bastard son with abandonment issues, just to save your own butt. Plus, the way he reacts if you fail that persuade check will make you feel like a dirty, cowardly worm.

I can only do it with characters who DGAF about his feelings, honestly. Or characters who genuinely believe that the pure, untainted soul of an Old God could mean the end of the Blights/a happier future for Thedas. Though I know many people are fine with the DR and I'm not accusing anybody of anything. *ducks flames*

I just feel like female PCs got the raw end of the deal, here.

Huh... I agreed with everything you were saying up until this point.  A male PC could also despise Morrigan and have similar internal conflicts as Alistair.  I am not interested in trying to claim that one gender has it worse than the other, but the DR is no less significant for men.  What if the Warden is gay?  Either they have to sleep with a woman, which they would most likely find absolutely repulsive, or they have to go through the same hoops regarding convincing Alistair... so basically, depending on the personality of the Warden, it can be a hard decision regardless of gender.

 

I quite agree with your assessment Vertigomez, for men the decision is pretty easy.

 

1. Sleep with the seductive Witch and be the first person to survive killing an Archdemon

2. Refuse and either immortalize yourself by killing the damn thing or get Loghain/Alistair to do it.

 

For women it is a lot more complicated to say the least.

It's not that simple just because men are involved... they can also have complex thoughts on subjects like this...

 

And that line about the seductive witch?  How on earth would a gay Warden be comfortable with this?

[Cyrus Amell]

What if the Warden is gay?  Either they have to sleep with a woman, which they would most likely find absolutely repulsive, or they have to go through the same hoops regarding convincing Alistair... so basically, depending on the personality of the Warden, it can be a hard decision regardless of gender.

 

Even if the Warden is gay it is still his personal decision. If he wants to survive being a hero he can close his eyes and pretend its Zevran/Sten who is on top of him. He has the power, he doesn't need to involve Alistair or Loghain and he can decide the matter on the spot.

 

Personality wise, yes he can dislike Morrigan but then  why even bother going through the ritual then to begin with then? It would be like "I hate this woman but sure I will trust her to take care of the soul of an Old God" what is the worse that could happen?

[prosthetic soul]

Doesn't matter TC.  Warden isn't appearing in the game, so the dark ritual may as well not have happened. 

[Icy Magebane]

Even if the Warden is gay it is still his personal decision. If he wants to survive being a hero he can close his eyes and pretend its Zevran/Sten who is on top of him. He has the power, he doesn't need to involve Alistair or Loghain and he can decide the matter on the spot.

So a gay man being forced to sleep with a woman is easier than a woman asking her boyfriend to sleep with another woman... not sure I understand that logic...

[RobRam10]

I do hope that the OGB appears would love to see the interaction between him and Morrigan.

[vertigomez]

Huh... I agreed with everything you were saying up until this point.  A male PC could also despise Morrigan and have similar internal conflicts as Alistair.  I am not interested in trying to claim that one gender has it worse than the other, but the DR is no less significant for men.  What if the Warden is gay?  Either they have to sleep with a woman, which they would most likely find absolutely repulsive, or they have to go through the same hoops regarding convincing Alistair... so basically, depending on the personality of the Warden, it can be a hard decision regardless of gender.

Oh, I don't doubt that male Wardens can feel extremely conflicted about the issue. I never look at the DR and think, "Welp, this is a no-brainer!" regardless of the Warden's sex.

The thing is, even if the Warden is suspicious of Morrigan, is gay, or hates blood magic... he ALWAYS has the option to take on the responsibility of that decision for himself. He can face those consequences. A female Warden can never do that; she ALWAYS has to put that burden on someone else.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Welp~ controversial opinion here.

I played a lot of female Wardens in DAO, which meant that you had to "convince" Alistair (or Loghain, I suppose) to do it... and considering the fact that the dude's a virgin who doesn't take sex lightly, I mean... you're telling him to sire a bastard son with a woman he hates, and never have any part in the child's life eeeven though he himself is a bastard son with abandonment issues, just to save your own butt. Plus, the way he reacts if you fail that persuade check will make you feel like a dirty, cowardly worm.

I can only do it with characters who DGAF about his feelings, honestly. Or characters who genuinely believe that the pure, untainted soul of an Old God could mean the end of the Blights/a happier future for Thedas. Though I know many people are fine with the DR and I'm not accusing anybody of anything. *ducks flames*

I just feel like female PCs got the raw end of the deal, here.

 

I think that's actually part of the reason why I like Alistair so much. My Warden put him on the throne and married him to a woman he barely knew against his will, and made him sire an old god child so they could live, but by the end he actually still considered her his friend, apparently. Despite the fact it could probably almost be called an abusive friendship at that point with the amount of sh** she made him do. :S

 

My Warden did care about his feelings, but...it certainly sounds a bit scumbag-ey in retrospect, doesn't it...