158 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

Oh, I don't doubt that male Wardens can feel extremely conflicted about the issue. I never look at the DR and think, "Welp, this is a no-brainer!" regardless of the Warden's sex.

The thing is, even if the Warden is suspicious of Morrigan, is gay, or hates blood magic... he ALWAYS has the option to take on the responsibility of that decision for himself. He can face those consequences. A female Warden can never do that; she ALWAYS has to put that burden on someone else.

Actually, I would argue that the female bears less of a burden because of this.  She is never directly responsible for the OGB and under no circumstance is she forced to participate in its creation.  The burden actually falls to Alistair or Loghain in this case because they agreed to the ritual, even though it is due to the Warden's coersion.  Their weakness and inability to commit to their original objections make them seem fully at fault in my eyes... since the female Warden is merely presenting an argument, she is only indirectly responsible for the Dark Ritual being carried out.  IMO passing responsibility to another person is not on the same level as having to make a personal decision regarding the DR.  Any guilt she may feel is largely irrelevant due to the fact that Alistair or Loghain bear full responsibility for not standing up for what they believed in...

[vertigomez]

I think that's actually part of the reason why I like Alistair so much. My Warden put him on the throne and married him to a woman he barely knew against his will, and made him sire an old god child so they could live, but by the end he actually still considered her his friend, apparently. Despite the fact it could probably almost be called an abusive friendship at that point with the amount of sh** she made him do. :S
 
My Warden did care about his feelings, but...it certainly sounds a bit scumbag-ey in retrospect, doesn't it...

The first time I did it I was just curious what would happen... like the first time I spared Loghain. I didn't really think about it until later and then I felt a bit greasy.

Actually, I would argue that the female bears less of a burden because of this.  She is never directly responsible for the OGB and under no circumstance is she forced to participate in its creation.  The burden actually falls to Alistair or Loghain in this case because they agreed to the ritual, even though it is due to the Warden's coersion.  Their weakness and inability to commit to their original objections make them weak in my eyes... since the female Warden is merely presenting an argument, she is only indirectly responsible for the Dark Ritual being carried out.  IMO passing responsibility to another person is not on the same level as having to make a personal decision regarding the DR.  Any guilt she may feel is largely irrelevant due to the fact that Alistair or Loghain bear full responsibility for not standing up for what they believed in...

I can totally see where you're coming from! If you're not metagaming, the decision ultimately is Alistair or Loghain's. They're the ones who agreed to it in the end - you were just Morrigan's messenger girl, really - and if the Grey Wardens blow a gasket it won't be the PC they're angry with, LOL. For me, it's still tough to pass that responsibility onto someone else (someone who really doesn't want it) but maybe I just have a weird guilt complex. Objectively I can see why the femWarden could be resolved of any OGB responsibility... but I think I still feel guilty.

Thanks for the fresh perspective.

[SgtSteel91]

My canon Warden did the Ritual, only thing that he didn't like was that Morrigan would leave. He respects and loves her and would have gladly helped her in whatever plan she has. But that gets rectified in Witch Hunt. Old God Child doesn't bother the Warden, he's the Warden's son and that's all that matters to him (like Shiro Fujimoto and Rin Okumura from Blue Exorcist). He would protect his family from Flemeth and even the Grey Wardens themselves if they found out.

[Cyrus Amell]

Doesn't matter TC.  Warden isn't appearing in the game, so the dark ritual may as well not have happened. 

 

He/She is appearing in Inquisition, just not in person. And, according to some concept art released in some books, Morrigan may very well have a well dressed ten-year old son at her side in some cases.

[Icy Magebane]

I can totally see where you're coming from! If you're not metagaming, the decision ultimately is Alistair or Loghain's. They're the ones who agreed to it in the end - you were just Morrigan's messenger girl, really - and if the Grey Wardens blow a gasket it won't be the PC they're angry with, LOL. For me, it's still tough to pass that responsibility onto someone else (someone who really doesn't want it) but maybe I just have a weird guilt complex. Objectively I can see why the femWarden could be resolved of any OGB responsibility... but I think I still feel guilty.

Thanks for the fresh perspective.

You actually see my point?  As Alistair would say, "that's a switch..."  lol

 

I don't mean to belittle anyone's feelings on this issue, or what they believe their PCs would be feeling either... I merely wanted to point out that male Wardens can also have some serious objections to this choice, and when all is said and done, they have to live with the full responsibility of whatever the consequences may be.  It's hard for both genders though... I did agree with the bulk of the original post that I quoted after all. 

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

I always wondered what the Grey Wardens might think about a Warden who survived via Dark Ritual.

 

I'm surprised we've never heard of anyone thinking the Hero of Ferelden might be a big fraud and Riordan is actually the one who slew the Archdemon. 

[SgtSteel91]

I always wondered what the Grey Wardens might think about a Warden who survived via Dark Ritual.

 

I'm surprised we've never heard of anyone thinking the Hero of Ferelden might be a big fraud and Riordan is actually the one who slew the Archdemon. 

 

I always thought that people believe Riordan was the one who killed the Archdemon but the Warden is hailed as the hero because he's not an Orlais cheese eating Warden he's the one who did the legwork to get the army and overthrow Loghain.

 

At least that's the cover story I imagine the Warden and Alistair give to the Grey Wardens when they ask.

[Leo]

 

I'm surprised we've never heard of anyone thinking the Hero of Ferelden might be a big fraud and Riordan is actually the one who slew the Archdemon. 

 

When Alistair mentions the Wardens questioning why the Warden lived, I'm surprised the Warden couldn't lie by saying Riordan slew the Archdemon.

 

Then again both those probably can't happen since whoever you brought to fight the Archdemon probably told everyone how you slew the Archdemon.

[GenericEnemy]

I always wondered what the Grey Wardens might think about a Warden who survived via Dark Ritual.

 

I'm surprised we've never heard of anyone thinking the Hero of Ferelden might be a big fraud and Riordan is actually the one who slew the Archdemon. 

 

I'm sure some people thought that, though there are eye-witnesses who can back up the Warden putting a sword in the Archdemon's head...and there's probably no recoverable body for Riordan anywhere to back up any theory of him being the real Hero of Ferelden. 

[Drasanil]

I never really cared for Morrigan all that much so the Dark Ritual is really my final parting gift to her. First I sided with Flemeth and tricked her, then I agreed to her ritual. But here's the catch, Alistair's the baby-daddy, and I really hope the OGB takes after his dad. I can just imagine the constant conniptions Morrigan would get out of that. 

[vertigomez]

You actually see my point?  As Alistair would say, "that's a switch..."  lol

Ha!

One of the things I like most about DA is that very few decisions/situations are black and white. It's all a matter of perspective, and what's important to people in-game and IRL... I love discussions like this, where you're encouraged to look at things from a different point of view.

I always wondered what the Grey Wardens might think about a Warden who survived via Dark Ritual.
 
I'm surprised we've never heard of anyone thinking the Hero of Ferelden might be a big fraud and Riordan is actually the one who slew the Archdemon.

You know, I wondered this at the end of DAO - I figured my Warden would have Official Senior Boss Wardens™ knocking on their door, demanding an explanation...

But after DA2 and Corypheus and all those shenanigans I don't think they'd give a ****.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

 

You know, I wondered this at the end of DAO - I figured my Warden would have Official Senior Boss Wardens™ knocking on their door, demanding an explanation...

 

I've always headcanoned my Warden was recalled to Weisshaupt some time after Awakening to explain all the various shenanigans she's gotten up to over the past two years. Also my attempt at explaining why she would actually do Witch Hunt at all rather than respect Morrigan's wishes to be left alone - perhaps the Wardens started showing interest in finding the OGB and studying it after she briefed them on it, and since Morrigan was basically her sister she sought her out to make sure her friend and her child were well out of their reach. 

 

And then she went back to vacationing until she vanished, I guess. *shrugs*

[Todrazok]

I've always headcanoned my Warden was recalled to Weisshaupt some time after Awakening to explain all the various shenanigans she's gotten up to over the past two years. Also my attempt at explaining why she would actually do Witch Hunt at all rather than respect Morrigan's wishes to be left alone - perhaps the Wardens started showing interest in finding the OGB and studying it after she briefed them on it, and since Morrigan was basically her sister she sought her out to make sure her friend and her child were well out of their reach. 
 
And then she went back to vacationing until she vanished, I guess. *shrugs*

Nice! Very interesting, puts an entirely different spin on Witch Hunt.

I like to personally think the reason the Warden dissapeared was because the first warden himself sent him/her off to investigate something related to darkspawn. Perhaps something related to whatever shenanigans the wardens are up to in DAI

[Elrodeus]

Performing the Dark Ritual was a no brainer. "I get to have sex with Morrigan and slay the Arch Demon without dying? Yes! Why would I not do this?!

Because you might very well be keeping alive the very same thing you spent the entire game attempting to defeat just so you could selfishly live and leave another Warden with the task of killing The Old God that you were too cowardly to finish off yourself.

Yea, that might be a reason for not doing the dark ritual.

No offense or anything, just that's the way I always seen it.

[Cyrus Amell]

Because you might very well be keeping alive the very same thing you spent the entire game attempting to defeat just so you could selfishly live and leave another Warden with the task of killing The Old God that you were too cowardly to finish off yourself.

Yea, that might be a reason for not doing the dark ritual.

No offense or anything, just that's the way I always seen it.

 

A little undiplomatic, although you argument has merit. Killing the Archdemon right then and there, whether it's you, Alistair or Loghain, atleast ensures that threat is permanently ended. When Dragon Age: Origins was new on the scene it was certainly quite controversial to go along with the Dark Ritual. Morrigan was an utter enigma (a strange thing to say about a woman willing to take of her clothes after gifting her two necklaces), and one thing we knew about her and her mother was that they practiced magics that included the ability to switch bodies... especially with those of their children. For all we knew she wanted to inherent the body and powers of the child!

 

However, what with the introduction of her family's connection to dragons and the emergence of a more human and relatable side to her since the dlc Witch Hunt, this previous theory seems very unlikely. Whether or not the child becomes a future threat is up to debate, but he will likely be mage (all the more so if the father was one) so Morrigan would have to work to keep him from the Circle. But what with the ongoing war who on earth would the chantry send to arrest him - the renegade templars or the apostate mages?

 

My point is that there is more to the child than a holding action, he has the potential to change the world. Again, something his mother has strongly alluded to.

[ctd757]

MY first character did the ritual. Dalish elf so maybe if they show the child it will look half elven.

[herkles]

MY first character did the ritual. Dalish elf so maybe if they show the child it will look half elven.

 

any elf +human children look human not like a half-elf. 

[trying_touch]

any elf +human children look human not like a half-elf. 

What do half dwarves look like? Cause that's the Warden I had who did the ritual....

[Lumix19]

What do half dwarves look like? Cause that's the Warden I had who did the ritual....

I believe they look like short humans or tall dwarves. Other than that nothing special.

[prosthetic soul]

any elf +human children look human not like a half-elf. 

Biggest....Lore cop out...ever.

[MACharlie1]

Because you might very well be keeping alive the very same thing you spent the entire game attempting to defeat just so you could selfishly live and leave another Warden with the task of killing The Old God that you were too cowardly to finish off yourself.

Yea, that might be a reason for not doing the dark ritual.

No offense or anything, just that's the way I always seen it.

And from the noble perspective...you're essentially giving Morrigan (by that extension, Flemeth) an heir to the Fereldan throne whether it be Alistair who performs the ritual or a noble who is marrying Anora. 

[Dark Helmet]

Won't be an issue for me. I never give Morrigan her demon baby.

 

Just feed Loghain/Alistair to the Archdemon and call it a day. Some things aren't worth preserving, especially if the Stupid evil swamp witch thinks it is a good idea.

[herkles]

Biggest....Lore cop out...ever.

 

why do you say that? 

 

I actually like it because I have a hatred for half-elves and other half-races. So not seeing them is a good thing to me.

[In Exile]

Because you might very well be keeping alive the very same thing you spent the entire game attempting to defeat just so you could selfishly live and leave another Warden with the task of killing The Old God that you were too cowardly to finish off yourself.

Yea, that might be a reason for not doing the dark ritual.

No offense or anything, just that's the way I always seen it.

Again, what's the actual downside here? For you to even have a problem with the DR you have to succeed in what amounts to an insane strategy to have 3 people and a whole bunch of meatshields take down a dragon. If the OGB is pure evil ... you have to do the same thing against a non-flying, non-firebreathing, squishy non-darkspawn.

[Todd23]

The Dark Ritual was a tragic win for my head canon warden, the biggest thing that inspired him to do it was that he loved the family aspect and the idea of having a child with Morrigan, that having an old god baby was better than none, and he would never have thought of doing it if he knew that she was already pregnant with his child.