456 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You have a point about the Humans, but they are still from the same family it's just that due to Chantry a Mage had to grow up in the Circle. They'd have to do a lot of background work to explain why a Noble family didn't send their child off to the Circle.

 

The Dwarf is a surface Dwarf so there is no ability to play as a Noble or a castless Dwarf which would give a different experience. The Qunari is not of the Qun, which a lot of people wanted.

 

BioWare choose to make the Elven Inquisitor a Dalish Elf, they could've made another choice, just like with the others, but they choose Dalish. It would make no sense for a Dalish Mage to be a Circle Mage since the Dalish take pride in their Mages and wouldn't send them off to the Circle.

 

Lorewise it would make very little sense for a Dalish Inquisitor not to have Vallaslin, since you get tattoo when you are a teenager, potentially at the same time as your friends, even if for some reason at that age you were against your clan, you'd probably still get the tattoo because it's tradition and the rest of your friends were doing it. 

 

It's kinda like Holy Communion, most kids that take it don't care about the religious aspect, they go through it because they get money and because their friends and family are doing it.

The issue I have with what you are addressing is that unlike the other races, the personality of the Elf Inquisitor seems much more set in stone. Humans we know can question their family, the mercenary band our Qunari is with is left vague for what kind of band they are, and the Dwarf while closer to the Elf compared to the Human and Qunari is still left rather blank for personality. Yet for the Elf we have to have a Vallaslin and thus we have to have the character support the Dalish ways for at least 18 years of their life in order to obtain them. As for your example of "They did it because their friends did", that is still taking the reigns from the player in the character's personality more than the other races. 

 

The other races backgrounds aren't that different. You're a Noble or a Mage Noble. It's about the same difference between Warrior Hawke and Mage Hawke. You're always from the same family. Qunari Inquisitors are always Tal'Vashoth mercenaries from the same company. Dwarves are always criminals. Having a different opinion about the the Trevelyan family's connection to the Chantry is not the same as the choice of getting to be a non-Dalish elf. It'd be the equivalent of being a random commoner or an Avvar barbarian as other options. 

Trevelyan and Hawke are not the same. Hawke's backstory was similar regardless of mage or not because they were an apostate. Trevelyan on the other hand was a Circle mage since they were a young child, leaving at the very least a decade of a completely different life than their nonmage versions. Bioware isn't going to just brush that away. Otherwise why do it at all? And I never said Trevelyan's views were equivalent to different backstories. That part was referring to how the Elven Inquisitor from everything we've heard so far only has a Pro-Dalish personality. 

[Icefalcon]

Why would the Keeper, send a person the rest of the clan would view as a child to spy on the Chantry and Mage negotiations?

 

 

Off the top of my head because they are one of the few options that doesn't scream Dalish Spy the minute you look at them.

Or that good old spying stand by because they are expendable and spying is a dangerous business. 

 

However that isn't my point, my point is this The tattoo is only part of the PC story because Bioware say it is, they could just as easily say it isn't for those people who would like an exception and make more people happy. Those who want to immerse themselves in the offered storyline as is and those who think tattoos are unpleasant or unsuitable and prefer to rationalise their PC with a unique and obscure reason why they would not have them eg allergy.

 

I've said it before, people want to like the appearance of their PC, the more options the game offers them in that direction the more people will be happy

[Eveangaline]

The tattoo is probably there because people need to recognize you as dalish on sight.

[phantomrachie]

The issue I have with what you are addressing is that unlike the other races, the personality of the Elf Inquisitor seems much more set in stone. Humans we know can question their family, the mercenary band our Qunari is with is left vague for what kind of band they are, and the Dwarf while closer to the Elf compared to the Human and Qunari is still left rather blank for personality. Yet for the Elf we have to have a Vallaslin and thus we have to have the character support the Dalish ways for at least 18 years of their life in order to obtain them. As for your example of "They did it because their friends did", that is still taking the reigns from the player in the character's personality more than the other races. 

 

 

Having Vallaslin doesn't mean you can't question the Dalish, just look at Merrill. All it means is that the Dalish Inquisitor is of age.

 

If Humans had some sort of coming of age tattoo, I'm sure the Human Inquisitor would have it because questioning your family doesn't mean that as a child you wouldn't follow what they said.

 

The Dalish are a family it can be hard to break away from family traditions when you are younger, particularly coming of age traditions because then they wouldn't see you as an adult.

 

You could always rp a Dalish Elf who came to have disagreements with their clan later in life or someone who loved their clan but wanted them to choose a different path, or someone who has come to hate the restrictiveness of their clan. 

 

There are lots of possibilities 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Having Vallaslin doesn't mean you can't question the Dalish, just look at Merrill. All it means is that the Dalish Inquisitor is of age.

 

If Humans had some sort of coming of age tattoo, I'm sure the Human Inquisitor would have it because questioning your family doesn't mean that as a child you wouldn't follow what they said.

 

The Dalish are a family it can be hard to break away from family traditions when you are younger, particularly coming of age traditions because then they wouldn't see you as an adult.

 

You could always rp a Dalish Elf who came to have disagreements with their clan later in life or someone who loved their clan but wanted them to choose a different path, or someone who has come to hate the restrictiveness of their clan. 

 

There are lots of possibilities 

The only time Merrill goes against the Dalish ways is if she romances Hawke. Every other thing she does is about the Dalish. She questions her clan's reactions to what she is doing, but never them or the Dalish as a whole. 

 

The problem with the possibilities you suggested is that you are trusted enough to go on a vital mission, thus something they wouldn't entrust to someone who isn't fully faithful to them.

[phantomrachie]

The only time Merrill goes against the Dalish ways is if she romances Hawke. Every other thing she does is about the Dalish. She questions her clan's reactions to what she is doing, but never them or the Dalish as a whole. 

 

The problem with the possibilities you suggested is that you are trusted enough to go on a vital mission, thus something they wouldn't entrust to someone who isn't fully faithful to them.

 

I guess the issue for me is that I don't understand why a Dalish Elf would want to be so against their own clan, wanting to change them I get, wanting them to be more open I get, but being against them I don't understand.

 

It would be like being a Ferelden Human who hates Ferelden.

 

But I can understand that you feel the Dalish option is more limiting than the others, even if I don't agree.

[Elista]

You can question the dalish way of life without having really "betrayed" or insulted the clan. So the Keeper may trust your abilities and your loyalty just enough for this mission. It's just about spying after all, they don't know much about what's happening... It could be a way to send you far from people who dislike you for a while, or test you, or show you the other races so you realize dalish way isn't so bad. Your character is free to seek something else (leave them for good, maybe).

[phantomrachie]

I feel like I should elaborate on my last post.

 

The reason why I'm finding it hard to think of a reason why a Dalish would be totally against their own people is because you are not playing as a Pro Dalish Inquisitor, you ARE a Dalish.

 

You could want the Dalish to change and grow or to behave in certain ways but if you hated the Dalish then you'd hate yourself and your own culture. 

 

If the Elvan Inquisitor was a City Elf then you could be Pro Dalish but you couldn't be Pro City Elf since you would be a City Elf, so you could hate the situation your people were in, but not your people themselves.

 

I'm not saying that people can't hate themselves and their own culture, it might be a potentially interesting aspect to explore, but it doesn't make them any different from any of the other backgrounds.

 

The Human may disagree with their family but it highly unlikely that you'll be given the opportunity to hate human culture

The Dwarf may hate or love the Carta, but in doing either they are not casting off their Dwarven identity

 

The Qunari background seems the most flexible since we don't know enough about the Tal-Vashoth to make any judgments

[9TailsFox]

They handled the Elven option in this game very poorly in my opinion. 

 

You want to roleplay an Elf? Well, you have to be a Dalish Elf. That eliminates City, Tevinter, and Qun Elf roleplaying options. 

You want to roleplay as your character? Well, you have to have Vallaslin. That eliminates any but loyal Dalish Elf as a personality. 

You mean same as they forced play warden in DA:O. Or only circle mage. This is game it have limits. I think having 4 races is good enough.

[Mirrman70]

@Kallen You say the Carta dwarf option offers more flexibility than the Dalish elf? what if I wanted a dwarf that wasn't a criminal and was a merchant guard for the Guild? or if I wanted to be an exiled member of the Warrior Caste? I am still loyally spying for my Carta bosses regardless of if I wanted to be a rebel among the Carta. They both have the same exact amount of flexibility the only difference is visual. Stop acting like having to have a Face Tattoo is horrible, you can have a smaller tattoo than you could in origins. just make it really faint and a color that blends in to the color of your elf's skin. HEAD CANON that it isn't there. Deciding on HEAD CANON before you got all the facts got you into this mess it can get you out.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

This whole thing made me not even want to play as an elf anymore. Maybe there will be a mod to remove the tattoo.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I guess the issue for me is that I don't understand why a Dalish Elf would want to be so against their own clan, wanting to change them I get, wanting them to be more open I get, but being against them I don't understand.

 

It would be like being a Ferelden Human who hates Ferelden.

 

But I can understand that you feel the Dalish option is more limiting than the others, even if I don't agree.

I'm not asking for an Anti-Dalish Dalish(though one would be acceptable since humans can be Anti-Andrastrian). Though wanting a society to change for the better is just the opposite perspective of being against the culture. If you weren't against it, why would you want it changed? 

 

I feel like I should elaborate on my last post.

 

The reason why I'm finding it hard to think of a reason why a Dalish would be totally against their own people is because you are not playing as a Pro Dalish Inquisitor, you ARE a Dalish.

 

You could want the Dalish to change and grow or to behave in certain ways but if you hated the Dalish then you'd hate yourself and your own culture. 

 

If the Elvan Inquisitor was a City Elf then you could be Pro Dalish but you couldn't be Pro City Elf since you would be a City Elf, so you could hate the situation your people were in, but not your people themselves.

 

I'm not saying that people can't hate themselves and their own culture, it might be a potentially interesting aspect to explore, but it doesn't make them any different from any of the other backgrounds.

 

The Human may disagree with their family but it highly unlikely that you'll be given the opportunity to hate human culture

The Dwarf may hate or love the Carta, but in doing either they are not casting off their Dwarven identity

 

The Qunari background seems the most flexible since we don't know enough about the Tal-Vashoth to make any judgments

Again, the difference is that the existence of the mandatory Vallaslin makes the choice for you. Depending on your character's age, you have to be a character who agrees with them for at the very least 90% to 45% of your life to go thrrough a voluntary and painful procedure that marks you for the rest of your life as someone who supports them. 

 

You can question the dalish way of life without having really "betrayed" or insulted the clan. So the Keeper may trust your abilities and your loyalty just enough for this mission. It's just about spying after all, they don't know much about what's happening... It could be a way to send you far from people who dislike you for a while, or test you, or show you the other races so you realize dalish way isn't so bad. Your character is free to seek something else (leave them for good, maybe).

There is no evidence that the Inquisitor can question them. After all you went through a voluntary painful ritual to show your dedication to them. It's not like the Casteless brand where you have no say in the matter. And again, most of those options make no sense with the plot. Why would you send someone who is a flight risk away to spy for you? Or as a test?  

 

You mean same as they forced play warden in DA:O. Or only circle mage. This is game it have limits. I think having 4 races is good enough.

I don't get what you are saying about the Warden in Origins. In that game you could be a City or Dalish Elf. The only restriction was you couldn't be a Dalish Mage.

 

 

@Kallen You say the Carta dwarf option offers more flexibility than the Dalish elf? what if I wanted a dwarf that wasn't a criminal and was a merchant guard for the Guild? or if I wanted to be an exiled member of the Warrior Caste? I am still loyally spying for my Carta bosses regardless of if I wanted to be a rebel among the Carta. They both have the same exact amount of flexibility the only difference is visual. Stop acting like having to have a Face Tattoo is horrible, you can have a smaller tattoo than you could in origins. just make it really faint and a color that blends in to the color of your elf's skin. HEAD CANON that it isn't there. Deciding on HEAD CANON before you got all the facts got you into this mess it can get you out.

I did, though I also pointed out that it is more strict than Human or Qunari in terms of roleplaying. The difference is that there is less to suggest your character's opinion on the Carta and that the player has a wider field of options for making their character's appearance theirs. If there is a limitation on the customization of one race, then an equivalent restriction should be on all races rather than having one be more restrictive than others. 

[phantomrachie]

I'm not asking for an Anti-Dalish Dalish(though one would be acceptable since humans can be Anti-Andrastrian). Though wanting a society to change for the better is just the opposite perspective of being against the culture. If you weren't against it, why would you want it changed? 

 

Again, the difference is that the existence of the mandatory Vallaslin makes the choice for you. Depending on your character's age, you have to be a character who agrees with them for at the very least 90% to 45% of your life to go thrrough a voluntary and painful procedure that marks you for the rest of your life as someone who supports them. 

 

You can want to change society without being against it. For example, I'd like to change the fact that women are basically vessels under Irish law, but I'm not against Irish society as a whole, but that is one of the aspects of it I'd like to change.

 

A Dalish Elf who may want to change Dalish society would be the same, they may want to change certain aspects of their own society but not the society as a whole, just like Merrill.

 

Just because a Dalish Elf has been tattooed doesn't mean they agree with everything the Dalish stand for, it just means that they have been through the a right of passage, after that they may discover things that they don't agree with.

 

You can love your family and want to be apart of them but not agree with everything they do.

[Mirrman70]

I'm not asking for an Anti-Dalish Dalish(though one would be acceptable since humans can be Anti-Andrastrian). Though wanting a society to change for the better is just the opposite perspective of being against the culture. If you weren't against it, why would you want it changed? 

 

Again, the difference is that the existence of the mandatory Vallaslin makes the choice for you. Depending on your character's age, you have to be a character who agrees with them for at the very least 90% to 45% of your life to go thrrough a voluntary and painful procedure that marks you for the rest of your life as someone who supports them. 

 

There is no evidence that the Inquisitor can question them. After all you went through a voluntary painful ritual to show your dedication to them. It's not like the Casteless brand where you have no say in the matter. And again, most of those options make no sense with the plot. Why would you send someone who is a flight risk away to spy for you? Or as a test?  

 

I don't get what you are saying about the Warden in Origins. In that game you could be a City or Dalish Elf. The only restriction was you couldn't be a Dalish Mage.

 

 

I did, though I also pointed out that it is more strict than Human or Qunari in terms of roleplaying. The difference is that there is less to suggest your character's opinion on the Carta and that the player has a wider field of options for making their character's appearance theirs. If there is a limitation on the customization of one race, then an equivalent restriction should be on all races rather than having one be more restrictive than others. 

 

You are literally asking to a fully rebellious character who refuses to do a common ritual because they want their culture to be better. Why would they trust you to then do something as important as spying. Why would you be the First if you refuse to have Vallaslin? your "rebellious" Dalish doesn't fit the background given. What if I want to be an obvious Qun sympathizing human noble that has been openly defying the chantry at every turn? it has already been decided that I am forced to be part of a deeply religious family. Your character with or without face tattoos does not fit the background they have given you.

[Ryzaki]

Edit: Ugh I'll be nice and stay out of it.

[LobselVith8]

They handled the Elven option in this game very poorly in my opinion. 

 

You want to roleplay an Elf? Well, you have to be a Dalish Elf. That eliminates City, Tevinter, and Qun Elf roleplaying options. 

You want to roleplay as your character? Well, you have to have Vallaslin. That eliminates any but loyal Dalish Elf as a personality. 

 

This is a thread focused on how Bioware refuses to address which vallaslin correlate to which Creator in the elven pantheon, not for you to vent that you don't like the Dalish and don't like the vallaslin. It's completely off-topic for this thread. We should give Faerunner some respect by focusing on the topic and not derailing it. If you want to vent about your feelings on the Dalish and the vallaslin, feel free to create your own thread where it's the main topic of conversation.

[Icy Magebane]

This is a thread focused on how Bioware refuses to address which vallaslin correlate to which Creator in the elven pantheon, not for you to vent that you don't like the Dalish and don't like the vallaslin. It's completely off-topic for this thread. We should give Faerunner some respect by focusing on the topic and not derailing it. If you want to vent about your feelings on the Dalish and the vallaslin, feel free to create your own thread where it's the main topic of conversation.

This is pretty much why I haven't gotten involved...

[Lady Nuggins]

 

We're not allowed to learn which elven deity is represented by which tattoo design?

 

 

 

 

While I'm all for the Dalish Inquisitor having a blood writing face tattoo, or vallaslin, since it's part of the lore for all Dalish to receive such a design as a rite of passage (and the Inquisitor is hardly a piddling teenager), I don't understand why we won't get a chance to learn which vallaslin design represents which elven god. Since it's part of the lore for Dalish to receive the vallaslin as a rite of passage no matter what, shouldn't we also be able to learn which design represents which deity so we can better understand the in-game lore, make a more informed choice, and just improve character and roleplay investment overall?

 

It just seems very odd to me to require vallaslin design, each design of which represents an elven deity, but then not reveal which design represents which deity. 

 

 

I always found this odd in Origins.  Perhaps the intent is for us to figure out the tattoos ourselves, but this was tough in Origins since it was hard to focus clearly on the graphics to figure out what deities they resembled.

 

Maybe in Inquisition we'll have the opportunity to learn about the tattoos more explicitly.  If it's part of the codex or integrated into the plot somehow, it makes sense that they wouldn't give it away right at the beginning.  

[jlb524]

I wonder if they'll all even look the same as in Origins?

 

This...

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...AJOmW.jpg:large

 

...does not.

 

So, are they all different now or is this one a new one?

 

If it's a new one, what god does it represent?   I use this as a guide now for the existing vallaslin.

 

The Inquisitor's tattoo doesn't really look similar to anything here.

[Leo]

I wonder if they'll all even look the same as in Origins?

 

This...

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...AJOmW.jpg:large

 

...does not.

 

So, are they all different now or is this one a new one?

 

If it's a new one, what god does it represent?   I use this as a guide now for the existing vallaslin.

 

The Inquisitor's tattoo doesn't really look similar to anything here.

We have no idea if they'll use the Origin tattoos or just give out brand new ones.

 

I do hope they have all the Dalish tattoos from Origins, mainly since I really want my Dalish Inquisitors to have the Ghilan'nian and Andruil tattoos.

[zqrahll]

Hey, another good reason to not play an elf.   I am so annoyed that Bioware brought back the weaker Elf background-- City Elf was infinitely more interesting than Dalish.

[Mirrman70]

Hey, another good reason to not play an elf.   I am so annoyed that Bioware brought back the weaker Elf background-- City Elf was infinitely more interesting than Dalish.

 

in origins.

[Melcolloien]

Hey, another good reason to not play an elf.   I am so annoyed that Bioware brought back the weaker Elf background-- City Elf was infinitely more interesting than Dalish.

 

Zqrahll said, in Origins. But you have no idea how interesting or not interesting playing as a Dalish will be until you have tried it.

I am sure Biowar had their reasons to pick Dalish over city elf when they decided to add different races for the main character again. 

For example, why would a city elf even be there in the first place?
I am pretty sure no one brings their servants to this meeting in the beginning of the game so there is no way a city elf would even be allowed in. (as neither an actual servant or a bard posing as one)

Dalish makes sense, city elf would not. 

[HuldraDancer]

Still find it a little odd that if we HAVE to get the tattoos we wont know what they mean but now that I've thought about it I don't think its going to stop my still so far one run as an elf I couldn't get into the Dalish that much in Origins but this is an entirely new game maybe it'll bring me around to them. So long at the tattoos don't come up in conversation and people expect me to know what I means I don't think having a face tattoo on my elf is going to be that big of  bummer anymore. Now I'm just hoping they have one that I like.

[Ryzaki]

Zqrahll said, in Origins. But you have no idea how interesting or not interesting playing as a Dalish will be until you have tried it.

I am sure Biowar had their reasons to pick Dalish over city elf when they decided to add different races for the main character again. 

For example, why would a city elf even be there in the first place?
I am pretty sure no one brings their servants to this meeting in the beginning of the game so there is no way a city elf would even be allowed in. (as neither an actual servant or a bard posing as one)

Dalish makes sense, city elf would not. 

 

Elves can be templars (it'd be interesting playing from a CE's templar's perspective and if there's a worry about Lyrium usage simply have them be a fresh recruit that were soon to take their vows) or mages, (similar story to the Human mage except from a poor background). They can be merchants, and so on. 

 

City elves aren't just servants or bust.

 

So I'm not sure how a dalish spy can make sense but those other scenarios are somehow beyond the pale. The devs simply did it because they didn't want to not because it's impossible for it to make sense. Also you really think an Orlesian wouldn't bring servants (elves or not?) LOL is all I have to say to that. Also if city elves wouldn't be allowed into the meeting why in the hell would a dalish spy be? Unless he/she is in the woods spying with binoculars (which I doubt). They can't exactly spy if they can't blend in. And there has to be elves for them to blend in with.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 septembre 2014 - 05:13 .