456 réponses à ce sujet

[AstraDrakkar]

I'm not real thrilled with the facial tattoo's being required to play as Dalish. I've never liked tattoo's and avoid using them in games whenever possible.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The main reason the Dalish exist, however, is to preserve their race's ancient lore and customs... For centuries, the Dalish culture has been fairly static and inflexible by design.  I don't think most clans would be receptive to any non-traditional ideas, even small changes to the practice of vallaslin and the religious symbolism within the tattoos.  I could see different clans having unique tattoos that represent the Creators, since they are spread out all across Thedas, but broadening the meaning behind the tattoos to allow for secular or artistic designs seems like too big of a change to ever be acceptable.  If the tattoo isn't even a representation of a Creator, then I don't see any justification for it to be a mandatory practice anymore...

 

I could be wrong though.  Supposedly the Dalish clans can vary in culture, although I haven't personally seen much of that... It's possible that Lavellan's clan is unusually progressive in certain ways...  that would explain why these new tattoos are drastically different from what we saw in Ferelden and are so abstract that no meaning can be easily drawn from them.  But again, if they don't represent the gods, I see no reason why they should be part of a coming of age ritual... If it's just art, then forcing members of the clan to get them seems pointless.

If they aren't representative of anything but we are still forced to have them, I will be pissed. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If they aren't representative of anything but we are still forced to have them, I will be pissed. 

 

I thought you weren't playing an elf in Dragon Age: Inquisition anymore. So why would you care at this point?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I thought you weren't playing an elf in Dragon Age: Inquisition anymore. So why would you care at this point?

I never said I would never play an Elf in Inquisition.

[Lady Luminous]

I never said I would never play an Elf in Inquisition.

 

Despite being against practically every one of the points that makes up the Elven beginning? 

[SurelyForth]

If they aren't representative of anything but we are still forced to have them, I will be pissed. 

 

They are always representative of something- of the wearer's transition from child to adult, which is an incredibly important rite in many cultures, especially those as communal as the Dalish. When you become an adult, you become someone who is contributing to the clan rather than needing to be provided for by the clan.

 

And even if BW doesn't come down from high and confirm what each one specifically means it doesn't mean that they don't intend for us to assign them their own meaning. If anything, I prefer the flexibility to make an aesthetic choice and fill in the backstory on it myself. When it comes to elements of character design, the less restrictive the lore the better. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I never said I would never play an Elf in Inquisition.

 

Well you did say this:

 

I have no Elf plans anymore. They all went up in smoke because of the restrictions we have. 

 

You can probably see how I might think that.

[Nightwing99]

did any one try to ask david gaider in his  blog

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They are always representative of something- of the wearer's transition from child to adult, which is an incredibly important rite in many cultures, especially those as communal as the Dalish. When you become an adult, you become someone who is contributing to the clan rather than needing to be provided for by the clan.

 

And even if BW doesn't come down from high and confirm what each one specifically means it doesn't mean that they don't intend for us to assign them their own meaning. If anything, I prefer the flexibility to make an aesthetic choice and fill in the backstory on it myself. When it comes to elements of character design, the less restrictive the lore the better. 

I know all that. I was replying to a topic that was discussing that some of the tattoos we've seen have no meaning but are merely cosmetic. That is when I would be angry(well, more angry) that they are mandatory because then they all don't even mean anything.

 

 

Despite being against practically every one of the points that makes up the Elven beginning? 

Just because I am utterly against something in a game doesn't mean I won't play that part of the game. There are times when the two connect, but this isn't one of them. 

 

After all, I have to at least once to see why they put so many restrictions and judge accordingly.

 

Well you did say this:

 

 

You can probably see how I might think that.

Fair enough. I actually thought of that exact post when I was replying. 

That post just means all the elven characters I wanted to play I won't be able to anymore. 

[10K]

I actually like that the player must have a tattoo this time around. It is part of the Dalish culture, and I found it silly in Origins that you could opt-out of having one. As for BW not explaining the meaning behind them, I think that's silly too. It would be great to know the meaning of the tat I must ink on my characters face. 

 

I would love to know which tattoo in Inquisition represents the elven god Dirthamen. It would just make RPing even more fun for me.

[Basement Cat]

Maybe there will be codes entries explaining them? We can hope. The Codex always makes for good reading.

[Icy Magebane]

Maybe there will be codes entries explaining them? We can hope. The Codex always makes for good reading.

It's better than nothing, but I think it would be better if we knew what tattoo we were choosing before we picked it... if they mean anything at all, our character would have this knowledge before receiving the tattoo.  They wouldn't be asked to select the one they think looks coolest and then told what it meant after it was applied.  On the other hand, the ones I've seen so far have been pretty abstract, so they might not have meaning this time.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I actually like that the player must have a tattoo this time around. It is part of the Dalish culture, and I found it silly in Origins that you could opt-out of having one. As for BW not explaining the meaning behind them, I think that's silly too. It would be great to know the meaning of the tat I must ink on my characters face. 

 

I would love to know which tattoo in Inquisition represents the elven god Dirthamen. It would just make RPing even more fun for me.

You like having players not be able to create characters they want? 

 

 

It's better than nothing, but I think it would be better if we knew what tattoo we were choosing before we picked it... if they mean anything at all, our character would have this knowledge before receiving the tattoo.  They wouldn't be asked to select the one they think looks coolest and then told what it meant after it was applied.  On the other hand, the ones I've seen so far have been pretty abstract, so they might not have meaning this time.

Again, I will be really pissed if the underlined is true.

[veeia]

Kallen, out of curiosity, if the tattoos & Dalish aspect turn out to be an important and reactive part of the elfquisitor and you can play a fairly pro all elves or anti-Dalish character, do you think there's a chance you'll be reasonably happy with it? Or is it that you want to be able to recreate the city elf experience as much as possible? I totally understand why you're upset (even though I don't share it), I'm just curious if you think it could be salvageable for you within the confines of the Dalish background, or if that's inherently not going to make you satisfied.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I don't care if they have meaning. I'm just annoyed that you need to have one at all.

[Leo]

You like having players not be able to create characters they want? 

You prefer breaking lore for Vanity?

 

Honestly, you'd never be able to create the character you want; want a human commoner? Too bad. Want a Dwarf from Kal-Sharok? Too Bad. Want an actual elven templar? Too Bad, you've only got a Dalish.

[veeia]

You prefer breaking lore for Vanity?

 

Honestly, you'd never be able to create the character you want; want a human commoner? Too bad. Want a Dwarf from Kal-Sharok? Too Bad. Want an actual elven templar? Too Bad, you've only got a Dalish.

 

To be fair, Kallen is not asking to create a different background for elves here. The question is, could we reasonably create a Dalish elf that doesn't have the tattoo? The devs seem to be saying no, but I think its a reasonable thing to debate. 

[Melcolloien]

I don't think  there is very much to debate about; since it is a sign of becoming an adult in Dalish culture.
And, like I and several others have said several times in this thread - they would not send a "minor" (or someone deemed to be unable to handle the responsibilities of an adult) to spy on such an important meeting.

 

But I still agree with the meanings thing, why can't we know?
I would love to know since they obviously means something to the Dalish.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Kallen, out of curiosity, if the tattoos & Dalish aspect turn out to be an important and reactive part of the elfquisitor and you can play a fairly pro all elves or anti-Dalish character, do you think there's a chance you'll be reasonably happy with it? Or is it that you want to be able to recreate the city elf experience as much as possible? I totally understand why you're upset (even though I don't share it), I'm just curious if you think it could be salvageable for you within the confines of the Dalish background, or if that's inherently not going to make you satisfied.

I can't really answer how I will feel afterwords since there are various answers depending on how it occurs. There are scenarios where I may be ecstatic, there are scenarios where I may be furious, and everything in between. That said, for the former I will understand, though may not agree, with their choice if the Vallaslin has an important plot point(and no, identifying you as Dalish does not count) and if we can be more than just variations of "We Dalish are superspecialawesome." Dalish Elves, I think I can at least say I would not be unhappy with it. 

 

You prefer breaking lore for Vanity?

 

Honestly, you'd never be able to create the character you want; want a human commoner? Too bad. Want a Dwarf from Kal-Sharok? Too Bad. Want an actual elven templar? Too Bad, you've only got a Dalish.

How is it breaking lore?

The Vallaslin tattoos aren't like the brand that the Casteless Dwarves get, where it is forced on them at birth. The Vallaslin is a voluntary procedure. 

 

I won't deny that I prefer there to be more options, since more options are always good to have in RPGs, but that is not what I am arguing in this thread. I am arguing against the restrictions placed on what options we have when there is no need for it. 

[In Exile]

How is this different from elves not having facial hair? Fundamentally it's an intrinsic feature of the story for thr class, even if I think that there's no actual reason to have the tatoo because it forces the PC into an I<3 the Dalish position.

[Icy Magebane]

Again, I will be really pissed if the underlined is true.

If they don't mean anything, then I agree that we shouldn't be forced to have them.  A Dalish clan that mandates abstract facial tattoos instead of traditional vallaslin seems inherently flawed to me.  Maybe Lavellan's clan has a good reason for fundamentally altering one of the most basic aspects of Dalish culture, but I can't imagine what that might be.  IMO, the coming of age ritual means nothing if the symbols aren't religious in nature... 

 

If they are all abstract like the ones we've seen so far, I'll be taking one of the nearly invisible ones like in the male elven Inquisitor screenshot.  No point in ruining my Inquisitor's beautiful face with random designs.

[In Exile]

If they don't mean anything, then I agree that we shouldn't be forced to have them.  A Dalish clan that mandates abstract facial tattoos instead of traditional vallaslin seems inherently flawed to me.  The coming of age ritual means little if the symbols aren't religious in nature...  If they are all abstract, I'll be taking one of the nearly invisible ones like in the male elven Inquisitor screenshot.

The symbols are definitely religious in nature. The Dalish also pretty clearly force conformity to the particular clans religious and cultural views. Merrill was exiled for having a different opinion on the role of the Dalish vis a vis reserving lore from her keeper. There's clearly no support for atheism in any clan.

[Icy Magebane]

The symbols are definitely religious in nature. The Dalish also pretty clearly force conformity to the particular clans religious and cultural views. Merrill was exiled for having a different opinion on the role of the Dalish vis a vis reserving lore from her keeper. There's clearly no support for atheism in any clan.

I was referring to the new designs... the ones we've seen so far don't seem to convey any obvious meaning the way the ones in DA:O did.  If these new designs have any meaning, I'm not seeing it... and if there is no meaning, then I'm not really a fan.

[veeia]

It's debatable right now because we don't know the extent to which the vallaslin are integrated into the world. Of course when the game comes out, we'll find out and we can talk about it in a more informed matter but....for now...well, we're here, why not talk about it? XD That's what speculation is all about.

 

I liked what they did in DA:O, where they warned you that choosing a tattoo would enhance your experience, but didn't require it. If there is just the same level of reactivity there (aka people recognzing you as Dalish), then I'm not sure why it was changed from that. 

 

It just seems like a weird restriction. In the first two games not only could you have brand free castless and vallaslin free elves (and presumably this one too), you can have non-Dalish characters have Dalish tattooes. You could have a Dwarven Noble with a brand tattoo. I mean, lore states that the elven are beautiful, but you could make a nasty ass elf and Loghain will still say you're pretty. In DA3, you can play as a horned or hornless qunari, and even though that means something very different, I doubt they've coded that into the game. 

 

If I play an elf, I will absolutely use the vallasin, because to ME, it's an essential part of being Dalish and also they're hella cool...but if other people can find a way to create a character that doesn't have tattooes, I have no problem with them doing that. I think I saw someone go "so you can be a special snowflake elf." and I'm like...helloooo...your character is a Bioware protaganist, they are already a special snowflake, lmao. People having very unique or divergent ideas doesn't diminish my experience of the game at all. 

 

I guess like....for my experience of the game, it won't change anything...but I am in favor of players having as many customization/choices as they can have and until we have some kind of understanding of why this choice was made, I understand why people would question it. *shrug*

[Xilizhra]

To be fair, Kallen is not asking to create a different background for elves here. The question is, could we reasonably create a Dalish elf that doesn't have the tattoo? The devs seem to be saying no, but I think its a reasonable thing to debate. 

They'd never be entrusted to do anything important, such as go to this conference. So... no, it's not reasonable.

 

 

The symbols are definitely religious in nature. The Dalish also pretty clearly force conformity to the particular clans religious and cultural views. Merrill was exiled for having a different opinion on the role of the Dalish vis a vis reserving lore from her keeper. There's clearly no support for atheism in any clan.

I don't think they police faith.