3344 réponses à ce sujet

[BobZilla84]

You know I am still waiting far a confirmation on Brothels in DAI.

And if they are in DAI will there be female Dwarfs.

[dan109]

Which would prove exactly nothing and be useless to debate with. Wanna prove that BioWare failed their major demographic, count em up, and tell me how many of those actually believe the lack of 'young women LIs' to be an insult to them.

 

I don't feel insulted, but it would make sense to include something that would appeal to the single broadest segment of your audience, no? If you need proof of what percentage of gamers are young men, take a look at a gaming convention some time.

 

I'm glad you ignored the rest of it and jumped on that one word. Did you not know how old they were before? 

 

Your entire arguement is predicated upon the notion that age doesn't matter because it's just a bunch of triangles or fake characters or whatnot. That arguement is nonsensical, because unless you suspend disbelief enough to perceive them as real people then nothing about them should matter at all, not just age.

[wright1978]

Because the setting they want has the characters in their early 30s to late 40s
 
Though I think Sera could be late 20s

I'd say Sera's in her twenties, so a mixture of orientation gating and the fact they've gone for a generally older cast for story reasons is behind it.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

I don't feel insulted, but it would make sense to include something that would appeal to the single broadest segment of your audience, no? If you need proof of what percentage of gamers are young men, take a look at a gaming convention some time.

Again, that's gaming overall, not BioWare RPGs. Not all gamers play every type of game. In fact, most don't.

[Br3admax]

 

Your entire arguement is predicated upon the notion that age doesn't matter because it's just a bunch of triangles or fake characters or whatnot. That arguement is nonsensical, because unless you suspend disbelief enough to perceive them as real people then nothing about them should matter at all, not just age.

Actually my argument is that people don't care about how old the characters are supposed to be, for the most part, because they are characters who are being romanced by other characters, often younger. It didn't bother them before, it probably won't bother them now. 

[Lieutenant Kurin]

I'd say Sera's in her twenties, so a mixture of orientation gating and the fact they've gone for a generally older cast for story reasons is behind it.

Yeah, they also seem to be going for the Inquisitor being anything between 20-40. The only info package that has any info on what could possibly their age is human inquisitors, who are the youngest of their family. And we don't know how young the 'youngest' could be.

[Icy Magebane]

So it only says that the nature of homophobia that affects gay men and gay women is largely different. That's why gay male characters are usually celibate though their sexuality is treated seriously, and while lesbians can make out because that turns majority of male audience (which is usually considered as the target audience) on, ultimately they have to be sexually accessible for men for that very reason as well.

 

And speaking of The Last of Us, it also had important gay male NPC in the main game.

Yes, this is my overall point... that revealing the female protagonist of the Last of Us to be a lesbian in an optional DLC is significantly less risky than incorporating more gay and lesbian romances in the plot of a Bioware-style game than straight ones.  This was my original point, but we're getting a bit too far from that I think.  Bioware has done a lot to represent the LGBT community in a positive light, and I think they should be applauded for this, not condemned for not pushing things further.  It takes time and there's a lot of money at stake.  All I am asking is that fans give the developers credit for what they have done.  If anything it means that there is more equality and representation on the way, which cannot be said of some other video game companies...

 

edit:  I changed "most video game companies" to "some" because I don't have any statistics in front of me... I'd rather play it safe.

[LiaraShepard]

I actually like them being older. There are so many games with younger characters or teenagers. The people of the inquisition seem to be experienced. And I wouldn't call people in their late 30s or 40s old. 

[AresKeith]

I'd say Sera's in her twenties, so a mixture of orientation gating and the fact they've gone for a generally older cast for story reasons is behind it.

 

Though I do wonder why the characters minus Varric and Bethany/Carver never has a set age

[Sporothrix]

I would argue that being celibate is hardly a serious treatment of sexuality. It seems to also have been done to not threaten the 'straight male audience'. That and making all gays effeminate to protect 'straight male masculinity'. Whether there is, or is not, enough straight males watching TV and caring to allow for such behaviour changes with time and location.

 

Though there's hardly any butch lesbian character as well. Probably because such character isn't thought to be sexually desirable for men. And by 'serious treatment of sexuality' I meant that it almost never happens that gay male character sleeps with a woman, and if he does, it's portrayed as terrible experience for him. I vaguely remember reading about some show that tried "turning" gay male character and it received really loud outcry from fans. When such stuff is done to lesbian characters, lesbians who criticize it are silenced by other fans by arguments like "sexuality is fluid", "no one is 100% anything" and "labels are too restrictive".

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Because the characters aren't created to BE love interests. They are created to be characters in the story, which in this case, had them be older (yuck that I have to classify Josephine as "older") characters. So if the cast of characters were all older, of course the LIs, who come from that cast, will be older as well.

Agreed.

[OrayMoor]

You are probably right.  I'm just kicking myself because I allowed myself to start to think otherwise and I just got a wake-up call that even those companies that are aware of this are still not willing to push the envelope.  It's exactly what I caution other people against doing:  getting my hopes up and then getting frustrated when I was wrong.  So this is just a giant disappointment, but, like all other things, this too shall pass.

 

I think that Bioware is pushing the envelope, there are 4 characters that are LGBTQ, out of them, there are 2 characters who can only be romanced by same sex characters. I don't know any other game that gives LGBTQ characters so much space. We are moving towards the representation goal in small steps at a time.

 

I know you are frustrated but I believe that in 10-20 years, LGBTQ characters will be a normal thing : )

[dan109]

Again, that's gaming overall, not BioWare RPGs. Not all gamers play every type of game. In fact, most don't.

 

Take a look at a Bioware panel specifically then. It's still mostly fairly young men.

 

 

Actually my argument is that people don't care about how old the characters are supposed to be, for the most part, because they are characters who are being romanced by other characters, often younger. It didn't bother them before, it probably won't bother them now. 

 

That's not the arguement you made in your prior posts.

[General TSAR]

 Talk about a lack of representation.

I agree, we need more older badasses like Isaac Clarke and Joel BeardyMcMurder.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Though there's hardly any butch lesbian character as well. Probably because such character isn't thought to be sexually desirable for men. And by 'serious treatment of sexuality' I meant that it almost never happens that gay male character sleeps with a woman, and if he does, it's portrayed as terrible experience for him. I vaguely remember reading about some show that tried "turning" gay male character and it received really loud outcry from fans. When such stuff is done to lesbian characters, lesbians who criticize it are silenced by other fans by arguments like "sexuality is fluid", "no one is 100% anything" and "labels are too restrictive".

But the fact that the most common sexual portrayal for a gay male to have on screen is 'an icky experience with a women', which is often used to show just how gay they are, is also damaging. 

 

Anyway, not trying to have an argument, but we all just have it bad... and I gotta go!

[LiaraShepard]

Though there's hardly any butch lesbian character as well. Probably because such character isn't thought to be sexually desirable for men. And by 'serious treatment of sexuality' I meant that it almost never happens that gay male character sleeps with a woman, and if he does, it's portrayed as terrible experience for him. I vaguely remember reading about some show that tried "turning" gay male character and it received really loud outcry from fans. When such stuff is done to lesbian characters, lesbians who criticize it are silenced by other fans by arguments like "sexuality is fluid", "no one is 100% anything" and "labels are too restrictive".

 

it's not better to see gays being tortured and killed in movies. And in many films they commit suicide. And unfortunately, in so many books that I have the men sleep with women as well. It's kinda hard to find a gay book where both protagonists are fully gay without sleeping with women. I think it's because many gay books are written by women who are married to a man.

[Jaulen]

Take a look at a Bioware panel specifically then. It's still mostly fairly young men.

 

 

 

That's not the arguement you made in your prior posts.

 

 

I don't think you can use the demographics of a gaming convention to determine who's more likely to be a 'gamer'

 

I'm over 40 and female, and am the one in the household that plays more video games than my husband (I play on xbox, ps3 (gettingf a ps4 for destiny next week), the PC and tablet/phone games.....he plays The Simpsons on his phone and that's about it). I would LOVE to be able to make it to a convention, but family and work and limited vacation times makes that an almost impossibility.

[ElitePinecone]

Sera and Dorian both seem fairly young to me, maybe mid to late twenties. Ditto for Josie, now that I think of it.

[Sporothrix]

it's not better to see gays being tortured and killed in movies. And in many films they commit suicide. And unfortunately, in so many books that I have they sleep with women as well. It's kinda hard to find a gay book where both protagonists are fully gay without sleeping with women as well. I think it's because many gay books are written by women who are married to a man.

 

"Dead Lesbian Syndrome" and "Psycho Lesbian" are also very popular tropes. And I don't know what books you're talking about so I can't judge, but are you saying that gay men are portrayed in the books you've read as being sexually attracted to women?

[BobZilla84]

I plan on making my first playthrough of DAI fun I will be a Dwarf Warrior Champion who is a shameless flirt I intend to have him flirting with everyone Sera included until she shuts him down to which he will laugh and move on to someone else but here is the hook about him he is terrified of intamacy so anytime things get serious he jets.

 

The Runaway Inquisitor Coming soon in Nov.

[dan109]

I don't think you can use the demographics of a gaming convention to determine who's more likely to be a 'gamer'

 

I'm over 40 and female, and am the one in the household that plays more video games than my husband (I play on xbox, ps3 (gettingf a ps4 for destiny next week), the PC and tablet/phone games.....he plays The Simpsons on his phone and that's about it). I would LOVE to be able to make it to a convention, but family and work and limited vacation times makes that an almost impossibility.

 

A convention is certainly a much better approximation that a single household, no? Especially when the demographics are similar at just about every convention ever held over the years.

 

Are we seriously having a debate over whether or not the single largest demographic of games is fairly young men?

[Jaulen]

Sera and Dorian both seem fairly young to me, maybe mid to late twenties. Ditto for Josie, now that I think of it.

 

 

I always kind of thought that Sera was the youngest. Maybe it's the brash personality they have alluded to.....I usually equate that with 'younger'. 

 

Dorian I could also see being around late 20's, he seems to still have an 'idealistic' streak.....again, something I equate with a younger character....usually us grey-hairs get that squashed out of us after a while. 

[daveliam]

I think that Bioware is pushing the envelope, there are 4 characters that are LGBTQ, out of them, there are 2 characters who can only be romanced by same sex characters. I don't know any other game that gives LGBTQ characters so much space. We are moving towards the representation goal in small steps at a time.

I know you are frustrated but I believe that in 10-20 years, LGBTQ characters will be a normal thing : )

I agree with you. I think I realized why I took this conversation today so hard. I've been saying, "It's getting better" and "In 10 years it will be different" for 14 years. And it HAS been getting better and it IS different now and much of that is because of Bioware. But there's still so much progress to make. I mean it's still at a place where us getting less content 100% of the time is still viewed as not only acceptable but fair. And to hear that the company that is MOST likely to be the first to offer us the 'bonus' romance just ONE TIME doesn't think that it's realistic right now, well that just emphasized to me how far we still have to go and how unlikely it is that I'll see the change in gaming in the upcoming years. I think that's really why I got upset today.

[LiaraShepard]

"Dead Lesbian Syndrome" and "Psycho Lesbian" are also very popular tropes. And I don't know what books you're talking about so I can't judge, but are you saying that gay men are portrayed in the books you've read as being sexually attracted to women?

 

Most of them. At least one of the protagonists is often described as more heterosexual than homosexual, but he makes an exception for a special guy. it's quite annoying. I often have to read heterosex scenes while reading gay books. It's the same as with Zevran. He can fall in love with a male protagonist, but yet, he tells you that he prefers females x_x

[AresKeith]

Sera and Dorian both seem fairly young to me, maybe mid to late twenties. Ditto for Josie, now that I think of it.

 

I could see Dorian as early 30s, same with Josie

 

Sera is pretty much the only one I see as mid to late twenties lol