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So?
There were two options for Jade Empire: Dawn Star and Silk Fox
Two options for Mass Effect 1 Liara T'Soni or Ashley Wiliams
Two options in DAO: Morrigan or Leliana
Two options in DA2 Merrill or Isabela
Two is normal.
except in Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR and only one of them is a companion.
I don't see why a woman can't be a lesbian if she doesn't bring it up or if you don't notice.
I can never get into a game where the main character is a woman. Too much of a disconnect for me. Sera seems just fine if she wasn't exclusively lesbian.
That is just sad, you are loosing a lot of experiences in games because of that.
So you really think there's no correlation between the demographics of people that go to Bioware panels and the demographics of people that play Bioware games? Honestly?
Upthread someone commented that the panels they'd attended were more diverse than you're suggesting, so even if they were representative it doesn't necessarily support the majority that you believe in.
Regardless of that, conventions as a whole tend to skew towards specific subgroups of fans, and outside of a devoted core group (who are tend to be outliers to be begin with) those groups tend to be younger (and often more heavily male, although I think that's changing). Those people are just as small a percentage of the consumer base as this forum is - loud, sure, but small.
Personal experience isn't statistically significant of course, but even so, looking around at a convention should tell you that it's only certain segments of the target market of most AAA games (or big budget films/shows, or mainstream comics) that actually go to cons. I mean, I haven't been to a convention in 15 years, and of the regular two dozen or so friends who used to do the same, only 3 of them still do - and yet all of us are still buying products, y'know?
I'm 33, and I think they all look great.I think it comes down to people's own ages. Characters this round feel bit old to me. I'm early 20s myself so I guess that's just normal for me ^^
I'm Quite Dissapointed for the straight male player romances in the game, Josephine Cassandra and... thats it... for the straight males.
If you're disappointed in the number, I can assure you the number is the same number of options you've had in the last two games.
If you're disappointed in the selection, then so be it. You're not alone, if commentary on the forum is anything to go by. Personal preference is what it is, and like I've said previously, there's hardly a guarantee that a person will find anything they personally find attractive no matter the number of options. If the idea is that "straight males" in general won't find either of those options attractive... well, we have a large number of straight men who work here in the office who would vigorously object to that assertion, I assure you. Might not want to speak on their behalf.
You are probably right. I'm just kicking myself because I allowed myself to start to think otherwise and I just got a wake-up call that even those companies that are aware of this are still not willing to push the envelope. It's exactly what I caution other people against doing: getting my hopes up and then getting frustrated when I was wrong. So this is just a giant disappointment, but, like all other things, this too shall pass.
@daveliam - And just before the pages slip away too far, I wanted to say that I'm really pleased that you make the points you do, to challenge where the gaming market in general is.
I hope you never lose hope and that any disillusionment will pass.
Over the last few days, posters such as you and Nocte have given me (an oldish straight male gamer) a
few things to think about. That it is ok to not simply sit back and say 'sure it will improve in time'.
Things only improves because people say something and create an energy that over time moves mountains.
I'm really pleased that you and David were able to share a few words on this.
I think that BioWare are indeed pushing the envelope (Jade Empire, KOTOR, ME, DA),
but it takes gamers, like you, making that case to the undecideds and the uninformed to eventually
move the attitudes of the community who buy the games and create the demand for even more inclusive play-options.
(The haters aren't going to change, they are not the focus).
Here is an article about BioWare I saw discussing that cultural change which I think explores some of the issues quite nicely...
http://www.quarterto...s-the-gay-card/
I think it comes down to people's own ages. Characters this round feel bit old to me. I'm early 20s myself so I guess that's just normal for me ^^
Leaving Morrigan and Leilana (and vivienne) out is like leaving Lyara and Tali out and giving us kaidan alenko instead
play DA:O.
Gay people often get killed, punished,tortured or commit suicide in movies. And in many movies they are described or represented as fags who are overly feminine and fairylike and who press the straight guys with their advances. They show this more often than with lesbians. So yes, I agree. there may be more movies with lesbians who aren't really lesbian, but also more movies with gays who get killed, tortured, or who act like a chicken on ectasy. That's not better. So, please don't always write as if lesbians are worse represented than gay guys. Because that's not true. They're both badly represented, both groups in their own bad way.
Actually in some of those aspects it's not that different, since like I said, "Dead Lesbian Syndrome" and "Psycho Lesbian" are very popular tropes as well. BTW, you just said that you're not familiar with representation of gay men in television, but are more into books (yaoi?).
I also recall now some discussion I had with you few months ago, when you were adamant in opinion that gay men have it worse than lesbians, so it's good to know that you acknowledge now that the displays of homophobia that affect both groups are largely different.
That is just sad, you are loosing a lot of experiences in games because of that.
Indeed, if you haven't played as Lara Croft you haven't lived... 
I just want to add my voice and say how much I appreciate all of the hard work Bioware does behind the scenes, trying to provide us with meaningful romance options that allow everyone to feel they have options available, all while knowing they will never make everyone happy.
Additionally, I want to thank Allan for his comments on this thread. Privilege is a word that gets thrown around a lot these days, and people are often defensive when it is used, and there is a huge gap in understanding what is actually meant by it. So often, being told you are speaking from a place of privilege, makes people think they are being told they are somehow racist or gender prejudiced, based solely on something beyond their control, ie, their own race or gender. This is NOT what privilege refers to at all, and having privilege does not mean you are a bad person. I read a fantastic article just today that likened privilege to being an automobile driver, and those without privilege as bike riders on the same road. (I did not write this article, I read it, and it put so much into perspective for me.) The automobile drivers are privileged, in that our culture is set up with laws and supports and expectations built around everyone driving cars. Driving a car, you don't typically have to worry about gravel spit in your face from someone's tires as they go by, or people stopping to yell at you about where you are riding your bike, or how close traffic is moving very quickly by your bike lane, or what might happen if you hit a pothole you couldn't swerve to avoid because of said traffic. That is the privilege of driving a car. The bike rider experiences all of these things and more on a daily basis. This does not make the person behind the wheel of a car a bad or prejudiced person. They are just not experiencing the world from the same point of view as the bike rider. That's all privilege really is. (If you want to read the whole thing, which I highly recommend, it is here: http://alittlemoresa...hite-privilege/ )
Speaking as a straight, white, female gamer, I am delighted at the number and variety of options in this game. I definitely feel empathy for the straight male gamers and their two options - I do. Because I have been there many times, with much more limited options than what the straight men (or at least the straight male PC characters) have. On the other hand, those of you that are so angry and feel like Bioware is somehow punishing you, please read the above article I linked and try to keep an open mind about privelege and what it really means. Maybe the next game will offer you more options than us straight female gamers have, as some previous titles have. Take a breath, and take a second to think about what it has felt like for those who have, typically, been less represented in gaming.
Here here.....well put.
So you really think there's no correlation between the demographics of people that go to Bioware panels and the demographics of people that play Bioware games? Honestly?
Actually in some of those aspects it's not that different, since like I said, "Dead Lesbian Syndrome" and "Psycho Lesbian" are very popular tropes as well. BTW, you just said that you're not familiar with representation of gay men in television, but are more into books (yaoi?).
I also recall now some discussion I had with you few months ago, when you were adamant in opinion that gay men have it worse than lesbians, so it's good to know that you acknowledge now that the displays of homophobia that affect both groups are largely different.
I also read normal books, not only comics. And although I'm not familiar with gay or lesbian movies in general, I saw a lot of films or series with gay men who are really badly reresented. Mostly soap operas, but also some movies that names I don't remember. I'm not someone who writes the names of the movies down when I see a gay character who's badly represented. So yes, I wouldn't say I know many movies (by name). But they're often described as strange people who aren't anything but gay (their appearance is gay, their behavior is gay, their attitude is gay, all of them is gay). That's not better than a lesbian who is described as if she's not really lesbian at all. It's just the other side of the coin.
And btw, I never said gay men have it worse than lesbian when it comes to representation of TV. Both of them have bad representation. I said they have it worse in many countries when it comes to real life experiences. But I also said it doesn't mean that lesbian have a great life in society. And I also said I believe you're raping argument. But also many gay guys are raped or imprisoned, or killed for being gay. I just think,although lesbians have it really bad, gay guys have it even worse in most parts of the world.
btw. you are adamant as well with your opinion that lesbian are worse represented in media ; )
except in Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR and only one of them is a companion.
Okay, there's three available in ME2, and ME3 is seems everyone wanted a piece of maleShep. Two is still the most typical number.
And I don't see what difference one being an advisor makes. Yeah it means you can't take Josephine with you everywhere, but that shouldn't impact on the romance. Since traditionally virtually the entire romance arc takes place at party camp anyway.
Ultimately, though, we'll just have to find out for ourselves how different an advisor romance is from a companion. And whether it's 'bad" or not.
Since I'm going to play a female dwarf and I like to have my partners with me all the time - I will go for either Blackwall or Sera.
I might also create a female elf - just to romance Dobby, I mean Solas.
I'm still disappointed Varric isn't LI...
Well I was hoping for Vivi, but that doesn't mean she not coming everywhere with me! This will be the first game where I don't have my LI with me in combat! I hope Josey romance is just as wonderful as an companion LI, and I hope she knows how to handle a dwarven man 
. And also some people are saying you should "roleplay" as other characters and such. But every time I try to play a female character, I can never finish the story. But just because I can't jump into the role of the opposite sex, doesn't mean I can't role play as a evil man dwarf, a good dwarf, a pro-chantry dwarf, a traditionalist dwarf, a anti-dwarf dwarf, and many more lol.
And btw, I never said gay men have it worse than lesbian when it comes to representation of TV. Both of them have bad representation. I said they have it worse in many countries when it comes to real life experiences. But I also said it doesn't mean that lesbian have a great life in society. And I also said I believe you're raping argument. But also many gay guys are raped or imprisoned, or killed for being gay. I just think,although lesbians have it really bad, gay guys have it even worse in most parts of the world.
Hope that you did some actual research on this one, and took into account also the situation of women in general, including violence against them, in those parts of the world where it's the most dangerous to be gay.
btw. you are adamant as well with your opinion that lesbian are worse represented in media ; )
Nope, all the time I was talking about the damaging trope of "lesbian sleeping with a man", that's actually you who tried to say that similar thing is true for gay men, and when it didn't work out, started bringing up some other stuff. Seems that whenever something about the situation of lesbians is mentioned, you always come to say "but what about gay men!".
Well I was hoping for Vivi, but that doesn't mean she not coming everywhere with me! This will be the first game where I don't have my LI with me in combat! I hope Josey romance is just as wonderful as an companion LI, and I hope she knows how to handle a dwarven man
Hum so you can roleplay other types of personalities but not genders? you are limiting yourself if you ask me. I just found really sad that games like Tomb Raider like someone said never can be enjoyed because of that.
This is something I cannot get maybe that is because I never got the change to play female characters in my young days. I think you guys are just not use to it. People should try to get out of their comfort zone, I for example gonna to do the Blackwall romance on one of my PTs and maybe even Solas.
Hope that you did some actual research on this one, and took into account also the situation of women in general, including violence against them, in those parts of the world where it's the most dangerous to be gay.
Nope, all the time I was talking about the damaging trope of "lesbian sleeping with a man", that's actually you who tried to say that similar thing is true for gay men, and when it didn't work out, started bringing up some other stuff. Seems that whenever something about the situation of lesbians is mentioned, you always come to say "but what about gay men!".
What? I have mentioned the things about gay men who are often shown as a ****** or being killed and punished in media before. You're just unfair to always assume things. As far as I remember, you are the one who always posts the Traynor picture, who says Steves romance was so good and Samanthas romance was so bad, you're the one, who always mentiones gays are represented in more movies and then, you say how badly represented lesbians are. But if you tell us that gays are more often represented than lesbians you should also consider that there are more movies where they are badly represented (simply to the fact that there are more movies where they are shown). So the truth is: gays are represented as badly quite as much as lesbians. There may be more movies with them, but it doesn't mean, these movies show a better representation of them. So, if you complain about the representation of lesbians but also refer to the number of films in which gay people are shown, you should also take into account that a higher number doesn't mean there's better representation for them. On the contrary, it makes their situation even worse. If you don't want me to draw a comparison then you should mention the situation of lesbians without always refering to gay people...
btw. Saying "it didn' work so I start bringing up some other stuff" is really childish. I even agreed with you that there are more homosexual women shown as if they're actually bisexual (but with the argument that there are more gay man shown as overly stereotypically gay which is true)...but even that wasn't enough for you.
I'm struggling to get that out of my head now...
Ok no Solas romance, I was wrong.
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