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[Warden Commander Aeducan]

After reading this thread, I wonder how Bioware employees can even stomach their most rabid fans.

I feel pity for them.

[Lennard Testarossa]

What is wrong with having to save the world?    Surely that is what classic fantasy is all about.

 

It's what Lord of the Rings was all about. Since then, the hero saving the world has been done a million times. And not a single great book has come out of it. If you look at the books that are generally considered great fantasy, you'll find that they either avoid "hero saving the world"-plots or try to turn them on their head.

 

Think A Song of Ice and Fire, Kingkiller Chronicle, The Malazan Book of the Fallen, The First Law etc...

Or to look at fantasy rpgs: Planescape: Torment is generally hailed as being the benchmark there. It's a personal story. Or the game that is generally considered to be the most beloved Bioware game: Baldur's Gate 2, which was also a personal story. And it's easily as epic as any "save the world"-plot.

[SnakeCode]

After reading this thread, I wonder how Bioware employees can even stomach their most rabid fans.

Hard to call people fans when all they do is complain and call things "problematic."

[ElitePinecone]

I finally checked out the romanceable characters, and while I have nothing against any of them (they all seem well done, so far), I do feel the need to bring up that only one gender getting to romance elves is actually a sexist thing to do. Not having an opportunity because you do or do not have some dangle bits between your legs or some lumpy bits on your chest is the very definition of sexism.

Now, it doesn't really matter to me because I will be playing a femquisitor anyway, I just felt I should pointed that out.

 

Oh, for heaven's sake.

 

This is absurd.

[Yggdrasil]

I didn't really see his comment as meaning "women all think alike."  People enjoy playing video games for vastly different reasons, and someone recently made a brilliant observation that some players (such as myself) tend to inject a lot of their own self into their characters.  So playing a different gender can make them feel slightly less connected to their character.  I've thoroughly enjoyed playing games as a different gender and/or sexuality as my own.  But I've always felt so much more engaged when I can play someone who is closer to the way I am.  The reason I fell in love with Origins is that I could actually play as a gay man.  In the past I've had to play as woman in order to pursue a romance option with a male NPC.  Women and heterosexuals are, of course, equally valid, but I don't get quite the same level of immersion.

 

(Edit: Sorry if people don't get the context for what I'm saying.  By the time I typed my comment, the comment I was commenting on is a page or two back, and I can't use the quote feature with Explorer.)

[introverted_assassin]

I honestly thought I was alone in being unable to finish a romance if I'm attemping it with a guy in any of the BioWare games. I do write sparingly so I play from the prospective of creating my own story always...but there are a lot of unfinshed arcs when it came to romancing the male LI's.

Garrus feels like too much of a bro to me as does Alistair. Zevran, my best friend...that tried to kill me at first but still, that's my ace.

Alternatively, I can romance Cortez just fine. The problem with me in DA:O is that charming Orlesian bard...as soon as I recruit her, I kinda go dumb lol. I'll say "oh let's give Alistair a go with this warden"...and then Leli starts talking about shoes and stars and singing and my poetic side just falls...HARD. Except with my male elf wardens...they seem to favor Morrigan.

K. End rant.

[Pasquale1234]

Is that really the case? With lots of people?
I can not imagine someone buying game just for that. I mean... It's still very small part of the game. And it sounds like they do not enjoy anything else there, since they buy it just because there is extra LI content. So how does it work? They go through all the fightings and story (which is core of the game) like through necessary evil? They have to suffer to get to romance bit? If that's really the case I simply do not get it.
I understand that someone may find romances very important. I really do. But I still think most people will buy it just to fight stuff, save the world and all that.

It is true that the romance scenes themselves are generally a very small part of the content.

It is also true that a lot of the appeal of Bioware games is the depth and breadth of the NPC characters - the party banter, their relationships with the PC and each other, the fact that they typically have their own unique character growth arcs complete with side quests and the ability of the PC to influence them to change in some way. Romance content is, imho, a very natural and organic outgrowth of the relationship the PC can form with these characters - and can allow the player to experience another level of relationship with them.

For me, having a PC invested in a romantic relationship can change the entire feel of the rest of the game. It isn't just the brief romantic scenes, but the fact that the PC has a partner that makes the game experience very different than it is for a single PC.

[Altus Mage]

No, it's sexist because it is sexist. Male characters don't get the option, female ones do.

 

 

That is one of the most absurd accusations I have ever heard. After having lurked and waded through most of this thread, that's quite a feat. 

[Yggdrasil]

It is true that the romance scenes themselves are generally a very small part of the content.

It is also true that a lot of the appeal of Bioware games is the depth and breadth of the NPC characters - the party banter, their relationships with the PC and each other, the fact that they typically have their own unique character growth arcs complete with side quests and the ability of the PC to influence them to change in some way. Romance content is, imho, a very natural and organic outgrowth of the relationship the PC can form with these characters - and can allow the player to experience another level of relationship with them.

For me, having a PC invested in a romantic relationship can change the entire feel of the rest of the game. It isn't just the brief romantic scenes, but the fact that the PC has a partner that makes the game experience very different than it is for a single PC.

 

This is how I feel exactly.  The counterbalance between Shepard as larger-than-life hero saving the galaxy and Shepard the human romancing Kaidan made my experience in ME3 exponentially more complex and fulfilling.  It gave the experience so much more depth for me.

[General TSAR]

Oh, for heaven's sake.

 

This is absurd.

x2.

 

There will always be someone who is unhappy.

[Ieldra]

It's what Lord of the Rings was all about. Since then, the hero saving the world has been done a million times. And not a single great book has come out of it. If you look at the books that are generally considered great fantasy, you'll find that they either avoid "hero saving the world"-plots or try to turn them on their head.

 

Think A Song of Ice and Fire, Kingkiller Chronicle, The Malazan Book of the Fallen, The First Law etc...

Or to look at fantasy rpgs: Planescape: Torment is generally hailed as being the benchmark there. It's a personal story. Or the game that is generally considered to be the most beloved Bioware game: Baldur's Gate 2, which was also a personal story. And it's easily as epic as any "save the world"-plot.

Actually, the Malazan Book of the Fallen *is* about saving the world, even though you don't know that for about two thirds of the series. A Song of Ice and Fire has this element, as has Planescape:Torment. It may not be terribly exciting, but you can easily put more interesting stuff in with a "save the world" plot in the background. I actually suspect we'll get a personal story element for the Inquisitor, as their special power turns out to come from the Elder One.

[Jaronking]

Really no Vivienne  her and cassandra were the Two i were really interested in romancing  but its more straight Female Love interests than For male I wonder why they did that 

[Ieldra]

Hard to call people fans when all they do is complain and call things "problematic."

It's human nature. People take what they like silently and complain endlessly about what they don't like.

 

We should occasionally make an effort to mention the good. So here it is: all in all what's known of DAI makes it look pretty good. More than that: truly impressive. I'm looking forward to this game with great interest, and with almost none of the trepidation that proved to be so appropriate for ME3. I have some concerns, but overall I'm optimistic. If I'm not exactly hyped, that's not DAI's fault rather than ME3's. I'm just more careful these days.

[Meatbaggins]

You talk about the companions, the 'epic feel'... I didn't say the game was bad, did I? In fact, I said that it's a good game. But we're not talking about the game in general, we're talking about its story and only about its story. And its story is the most tired fantasy cliché in the book. It's excellentely garnished tired cliché, to be sure, but tired cliché it is.

 

The companions are part of the story. You're conflating story with plot. If you look at JRPGs, they often have incredibly imaginative plots that are beyond anything in contemporary fantasy literature, but they're plagued with bad writing and bad characters. DA:O is the opposite of that. If you only look the main events in the game, it's easy to dismiss it as nothing special, but it's the characters, dialogue and everything else that makes it a great story.

[Uirebhiril]

Really no Vivienne  and cassandra were the Two i were really interested in romancing  but its more straight Female Love interests than For male I wonder why they did that 

 

Likely a combination of factors, but mainly that the remaining characters to which a romance arc could be given to were straight males. I'm going to guess that there is no great conspiracy against anyone else with that, just time, story, and animation restrictions to work within.

[Ray561]

Really no Vivienne  and cassandra were the Two i were really interested in romancing  but its more straight Female Love interests than For male I wonder why they did that 

Because they had stories they wanted to tell for Solas and Cullen (they are the extra romances and blackwall was a romance before them.) and they actually have a story reason on why Vivienne is not a romance option.

[Lenimph]

Is a shame that all the bi characters so far have seemingly much preferred the opposite sex, only Leliana preferred other women but that was almost completely ignored

I certainly didn't ignore that. The only people who do seem to ignore it are people who romanced her with a male warden. Also you can make an argument that there's some kind of inequality with Isabela as she seems to get a bit more jealous when lady Hawke flirts with Tallis. For the sake of variety I hope Josephine thinks less in a gender binary sort of way and really doesn't care about the players gender much if at all.

[Raikas]

Hard to call people fans when all they do is complain and call things "problematic."

 

Eh, isn't "problematic" fairly neutral as far as criticisms go?  I tend to read "problematic" as meaning "there are some issues with this" which is pretty mild versus the "This is offensive!"/"Preorder cancelled!"-type comments.

[Milan92]

I personally don't really care about the whole "prefers this gender more" thing.

 

They fall in love with both genders.

[reeferdemon]

Now I just have to decide if I'll romance Josephine or Dorian. That's a decision I'll make in-game after I've gotten to know them better.

[Zazzerka]

The only people who do seem to ignore it are people who romanced her with a male warden.

 

Otherwise I can't sleep at night.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I certainly didn't ignore that. The only people who do seem to ignore it are people who romanced her with a male warden. Also you can make an argument that there's some kind of inequality with Isabela as she seems to get a bit more jealous when lady Hawke flirts with Tallis. For the sake of variety I hope Josephine thinks less in a gender binary sort of way and really doesn't care about the players gender much if at all.

I ment how Leliana's relationship with a F!Warden is completely ignored in game compared to the M!Warden romance despite her seemingly preferring women, always disappointed me

[wright1978]

I personally don't really care about the whole "prefers this gender more" thing.
 
They fall in love with both genders.

Think those preferences are largely imagined anyhow.

[LiaraShepard]

Think those preferences are largely imagined anyhow.

 

not for zevran though. He tells both male and female warden that he prefers girls.

[Spectre Impersonator]

*Slowly backs away from thread*

 

 

*Runs like hell*