3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

I'm pretty sure Leliana and Zevran just didn't have that in general, for whatever reason, regardless of gender.

Alistair and Morrigan, however, did.

 
Probably the game is subtly telling us kissing Leliana and Zevran is so hawt that everyone in Ferelden would notice and all of Loghain's men would instantly swarm you, leading to a game over screen, whereas kissing Alistair and Morrigan is boring and no one cares. 

Nope.
 
All could be kissed outside of camp.

No, only Alistair and Morrigan could, Leliana and Zevran needed a mod for that.

[Milan92]

Well that explains why it worked that one time for Leliana.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

 
Probably the game is subtly telling us kissing Leliana and Zevran is so hawt that everyone in Ferelden would notice and all of Loghain's men would instantly swarm you, leading to a game over screen, whereas kissing Alistair and Morrigan is boring and no one cares. 

 

I can confirm this. I have the Dialogue Tweaks mod, and when I tried to get my Warden to kiss Leliana in the middle of Denerim square, the Archdemon attacked early but was instantly defeated by hawt. Hidden ending, actually. 

[BartDude52]

While I do think that it's nice that everyone regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race chosen etc. will have at least two romance options, you'd think that with straight males (such as myself) being their main demographic (as in the main group that will buy the game) Bioware would've had more female romance options for straight male Inquisitors. I suppose I can't complain too much about the two options that I've got (both Cassandra and Josephine seem fairly attractive and interesting enough), though it would've been nice to have to have had at least one more option when you consider that straight females can have up to four options; I would've made Vivienne a straight romance option (even though personally I don't really find her attractive) just to add more balance to the romance options, though if it makes more sense story-wise for her not to be romanceable I can understand.

 

I know that two options is the same number that I've had in the previous two games, but when you consider that there's a total of eight romanceable characters in this game (compared to just four in the previous two games), it is rather disappointing that the number of romance options for a straight male hasn't increased even by just one.

 

More female companions in general would have also been nice (only three out of a total of nine as it is, seems rather unbalanced on paper), which would also  have widened the pool of possible romance options. Hopefully this'll be changed in future games.

[DragonRacer]

I'm struggling to get that out of my head now... 

 

 

 

(Although, honestly speaking, his later screenshots gave me a bit of a Voldemort vibe initially, if we're gonna reference the Harry Potter universe. NOT THAT THAT'S A BAD THING. Lord, please don't take off with that like my errant Nicholas Cage comment took fire; the Solas Thread would crucify me  ).

[Bekalynn]

I'd like to add a few comments before I head off to do other things...

 

First, regarding the love interests: the writers are telling a story, not conducting a social experiment or pursuing a specific socio-political agenda. They create that story against the backdrop of a real world social, cultural, and political sea-change. They encourage that sea-change by creating characters that are not the standard straight male protaganist. But...primarily these folks are story-tellers and their job is to tell a damn fine story...and they do. I personally don't always enjoy where they take certain parts of the story, or the characters (still pissed they killed off Khalid at the beginning of Baldur's Gate 2), but they always, always take me on an emotional ride. Which is damn good writing. Thank you, Bioware writers, for your stories.

 

I love the romance elements because they further flesh out character development. They strengthen the humanity of everyone involved. They add punch to those heart-rending moments in the game. And they're freaking fun... I would truly miss them if they were removed from the game. Yes, the game would still be good. Yes, it would still have playability. But, I don't know, I think it would have a little less soul.

 

For those who feel disappointed about fewer options than they'd wanted, expected, hoped for...well, sorry. It's not about fair, it's about story. (And, pragmatically, it's also about selling that story so they can continue to write new ones!) For those of the LGBT community who calmly and rationally explained why they felt disappointed and/or who shared their feelings of despair about ever feeling validated in this world that we share...thank you for sharing. Please continue to do so because that is what helps bring about social change. As a straight woman, I don't share your experience but, again as a straight woman, I can relate to aspects of it because I can remember wondering, for more decades than I'm sometimes comfortable thinking about, when the HELL it would finally get to be my turn. I guess I'd just like to say, keep hanging in there, keep raising awareness, and hang on to your hope because you know what? The world really is changing. The world that I am living in now is NOT the world into which I was born, thank God. I'm a high school teacher. I'm currently teaching in a pretty conservative, traditional community. Ten years ago, you couldn't get through a class discussion without some student making a homophobic, racist, or sexist comment while the rest of the class agreed with them and/or laughed. Now, in that same community, that same demographic, that same grade level, the kids are championing the rights of people to love where they will. When the occasional homophobic comment gets tossed out, the kids shut it down, not me. That's freaking progress.

 

Second, about the types of stories that Bioware chooses to tell being "formulaic"... Shakespeare was a formula writer. Dickens was a formula writer. Conan Doyle was a formula writer. I don't think their stories are therefore less valid and/or interesting. Most genres in fiction follow some type of formula whether it's high, heroic fantasy, space opera, murder mystery, police procedural, or romance. The trick isn't to avoid the formula, it's to use it to grip and engage the audience. Some writers do it better than others. I happen to believe that the Dragon Age team does it very well. Is saving the world a common plot device in high, heroic fantasy? Yup. But you know what? I think there are worse ways in which we can step out of our own personal skins and spend some time. And maybe, if we succeed enough times in "virtually" saving the world, we'll begin to recognize that we can take small steps to saving our own.

 

Personally, I'd like to say thank you to Mr. Shumacher and Mr. Gaider for sharing their thoughts, comments, and clarifications with us. Double thank you to Mr. Gaider; I had no idea you wrote Zevran. He is, hands down, my favorite Bioware character to date (though Varric runs a close second). His cheerfully amoral personality makes me smile every damn time I play Origins. Thanks also to posters Daveliam, JPrince, Lady Nuggins, and many others who shared ideas and experiences that made me think. And finally, thank you SofaJockey for a picture I am SOOO keeping. Cracks me up every time I look at it! Off to make dinner...

[MrDbow]

(Although, honestly speaking, his later screenshots gave me a bit of a Voldemort vibe initially, if we're gonna reference the Harry Potter universe. NOT THAT THAT'S A BAD THING. Lord, please don't take off with that like my errant Nicholas Cage comment took fire; the Solas Thread would crucify me  ).

 

What if Solas wore a Gators shirt?

[Grieving Natashina]

While I do think that it's nice that everyone regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race chosen etc. will have at least two romance options, you'd think that with straight males (such as myself) being their main demographic (as in the main group that will buy the game) Bioware would've had more female romance options for straight male Inquisitors. 

Well, BioWare has stated time and time again that their goal is to provide content for LGBT players, more content for women and such.  They have also stated that they don't care about making sure that the majority feels secure, and that they only care about providing a good game.  The majority gets most of the content in several games outside of BioWare, and they don't need to be given more options.

 

Here's a quote from David Gaider.  It's about LGBT content, but it also applies to thoughts about the majority having the most content: 

 

http://www.nomorelos...-it-by-bioware/  (emphasis mine)

 

The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

 

 

 

[DragonRacer]

What if Solas wore a Gators shirt?

 

Oh, I've already been on the Solas love train for a while, friend. 

 

But if he had on a Gators shirt, well... it's a family board, so I can't go into graphic detail. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Nope.
 
All could be kissed outside of camp.
 
I remember the dialog they would sometimes say. Oghren would oggle and faint during a FemWarden/Leliana kiss. Leliana would giggle when someone else was being kissed. Etc. Alistair would sometimes refuse it. Morrigan would say she didn't care if they were alone and kissed the Warden anyway.

The only way to kiss Leliana & Zevran was at camp, they never had the kissing choice outside of camp that the straight romances had unless the game was modded

[MACharlie1]

The only way to kiss Leliana & Zevran was at camp, they never had the kissing choice outside of camp that the straight romances had unless the game was modded

Has it been so long since I've played without mods?!

 

Before you know it, I'll be claiming Alistair was available for men too.

 

[ladyofpayne]

I really love how they alll are looking- none of them are models, all unique and each of them is attractive as real person not like model from Vogue.

[Daylen Amell]

This video by AbilityDrain on romance options is pretty funny.

 

[trying_touch]

I really love how they alll are looking- none of them are models, all unique and each of them is attractive as real person not like model from Vogue.

While I know what you mean, I do think that Cassandra and Josephine could easily be high fashion models with their high cheek bones and tantalizing eyes.

 

And I do have to admit that Cullen, while I hate to say it, is very handsome, much like Dorian, both sharing a classically great look.

 

While I'm at it, I also want to say that Iron Bull and Blackwall share a gruff and primal aesthetic that is attractive to a lot of men and women.

 

Finally, Sera IS the most good-looking lesbian from any videogame PERIOD.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Slight imbalance, but not huuuuuuge.

I'd say 200% of the options compared to the other heterosexual or either of the homosexual orientations is a huge imbalance.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Gonna, lay, it to you straight dude...Females and LBGT, deserve to have more choices than you: Because having one game that leaves straight males with less, does not make up for, literally, millions of games that cater to straight males. Not only do those millions of games cater to them, they also promote sexual and physical violence against women/LBGT.

There has not even been a million different games made yet, so your 'literally, millions' is hyperbole. Especially your implication that they all are about promoting mistreatment against other groups. 

[Super Shamois]

I'd like to add a few comments before I head off to do other things...

 

(Long, awesome post)

I was reading this thread and was ready to post something similar to this when I got to the end. But, really, this is something that should probably be re-stated. Though there were a few good points brought up, I want to focus on one in particular.

 

Very often on forums, I see people complaining that Bioware should have made more female love interests (and this is disregarding those who somehow believe that straight males are just so slighted over the options). I've seen things like "If they were going to add more options, why don't they just split the difference?" (referring to gender, of course) or "why can't they make a party that isn't a sausage fest?".

 

You know the answer? Because they aren't the ones compulsively obsessing over things like gender and sexuality so that they can relegate the entire identity of a character into that and nothing else. They are making characters in a story and aren't (exclusively) considering who or what those characters are attracted to, or what combination of race and gender a PC will have to be to have sex with them. Their aim is to make a believeable, organic character who can convey their wants, goals and personalities in a rich, dynamic fictional world with its own culture and prejudice and atmosphere. That is, generally, the primary goal when taking a character from a concept to a story where they will be experienced by an untold amount of people.

 

I think it's an unfortunate effect of Bioware games, having come to be known for roleplaying romantic relationships with fictional characters, that a large portion of its fans tend to look no further into their characters than how, why and with whom the PC can sleep with.

[BabyFratelli]

There has not even been a million different games made yet, so your 'literally, millions' is hyperbole. Especially your implication that they all are about promoting mistreatment against other groups. 

 

... Yes. Yes, it was hyperbole. Are we pointing out the obvious or are you saying that because they used exaggeration to get their point across it discredits the opinion?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

... Yes. Yes, it was hyperbole. Are we pointing out the obvious or are you saying that because they used exaggeration to get their point across it discredits the opinion?

Th latter. Inaccurate information weakens a position, especially if done purposefully.

[Gtdef]

 

Gonna, lay, it to you straight dude...Females and LBGT, deserve to have more choices than you: Because having one game that leaves straight males with less, does not make up for, literally, millions of games that cater to straight males. Not only do those millions of games cater to them, they also promote sexual and physical violence against women/LBGT.

 

Name a few female developers involved in games that "cater" to straight males. Oh you can't? Wonder why. Maybe because they lagged a few years? Probably. Newsflash, a lot of times the views of males and females tend to differ on what is cool and exciting.

 

Long have gone the days where if you bothered with a video game you were a virgin fat male nerd. Now we have a "million" smartasses that feel they have what it takes to "lay" it straight to an understandable opinion, and even adding a very serious generalized accusation just because it's the new trend.

 

That's not to say that I don't want equality. I want any person to enjoy the game as much as I do. But I think it's about time we all get off the bandwagon that is "who deserves what". There are many more factors to account than this excuse everyone throws around so openly. Being sympathetic is one thing. But this is not sympathy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So you're saying, that millions of copies of GTA ,(that demean women and LBGT) have not been sold, really? I also did not say 'game titles' because obviously not enough time has passed for their to be millions of titles made. However, there are millions of  games like GTA in lounge rooms across the world that say, 'hey its okay to do these things!Yeah lets go call another woman a ****'. 

 

I shall change my Original post to clarify..

While I agree that GTA V had bad stuff like that, it is just one game. You can't use the copies of it to say there are millions of games. Or if you do, then by your own logic there are also millions of games that provide positive experiences and representation for women and the LGBT community. But by using that train of thought, the numbers get so large that the actual ratio is no longer shown and thus the problem cannot be addressed.