3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

But it's not just one game title, it is hundreds, and when you multiply that by the numbers of copies sold, that shows a huge problem that must be addressed. Thankfully, it is being addressed slowly, but, unfortunately the female/lbgt community have to keep fighting because the bias runs so deep a lot of guys do not even recognise it,or refuse too.

 

But I'm tired of this argument, and there're better posters than I who can explain the divide better. 

Then use the number hundreds since that is the actual amount of different games. Though I still disagree with your notion that all of them are promoting the abuse of women and LGBT people. With such a claim, I hope you have ample evidence to support it. I mean like a list of games that is in the hundreds and have indisputable examples per game. 

[Gtdef]

I could name quite a few people in the gaming industry(who work on these straight male orientated games) who do not speak up, because to do so would be to lose their jobs. I will not name them, or say where they work. I will however say that the problem trickles right down to the animators and programming levels. A female animator is far less likely to get a job, than a male, and even if she does sometimes the sexist and demeaning crap they get is not worth it. I have seen cases of male animators purposefully sabotaging work  done by a woman, then there is the sexual comment's and harassment. Did you ever think that there are in fact more female developers/animators and ect Who want to work in the industry but face almost impossible odds to get employment? The ones that do, are often treated as lesser works because of gender.

 

I'm talking about the creative process. I'm sympathetic to what you describe and I think it's inexcusable, but falls in a different category and it goes beyond the scope of the particular problem.

 

Gaming has a rocky history. Without going into much detail, the epitome is that the industry moved into a direction that was more interesting to men than women. Violent games became hits, and most of the contributions of women were a different genre. It's been only the last few years that we've seen an increase, and series of games like Dragon Age is testament to the change in trends.

 

And it goes beyond gaming but I don't want to derail too much and I don't want to invite any more judgement than I have to. My stance is that when we see agreeable changes in trends, it's best to keep positive attitudes than negative ones. If you are indeed well versed into the matter and have something credible to say then just climbing into the bandwagon and being accusatory is the worst possible thing you can do.

[Gtdef]

Fair points. I think it is important to acknowledge the straight guys who are being supportive, too. However, it is very hard to forget years of inward resentment. But it has to be said I have been seeing improvement, a few years ago I would have laughed at. Sorry, if some of my criticism came off harsh, 20 years of being on the defensive is hard to control.

 

I apologize too for being harsh in my first response. I've been on the receiving end enough times to understand how it feels.

[Ieldra]

Sigh, if you think I'm going to go through 2 decades worth of games to give you examples, you're wrong. I'm sure a community effort could do it,however. I will give you a list of some games.

 

The Witcher 1 & 2

Custers Revenge

Duke Nukum 

Langrisser 

StreetFighter

C.O.D

Dragon Quest 8

Leuge of Ledgends

FInal Fantasy

Mass Effect

Mass Effect promotes the abuse of women and LGBT people? You'll need to explain that one. As for the Witchers, ok TW1 has somewhat sexist aspects but that's rather different from "promoting abuse" which I don't see at all. TW2 even less so.  I'll give you Duke Nukem, I don't know the others.

[HiroVoid]

Not really what this thread is about.  Seems more like a discussion for off-topic (though I can't see it going on long before getting locked there.).

[Calders]

Sigh, if you think I'm going to go through 2 decades worth of games to give you examples, you're wrong. I'm sure a community effort could do it,however. I will give you a list of some games.

 

The Witcher 1 & 2

Custers Revenge

Duke Nukum 

Langrisser 

StreetFighter

C.O.D

Dragon Quest 8

Leuge of Ledgends

FInal Fantasy

Mass Effect

 

What I love about this list, is that I would bet that all of the games have one thing in common (and I haven't played them all), that there are more men killed or attacked in those games than women (and we probably don't know the sexuality of most of them).

You can make anything seem sexist or any other ism if you look hard enough and are selective in what you look at.  It's true of course that historically there have been more games targeted at the guys than the girls but then the industry was largely built by guys writing games for guys.  This has changed over the years but all this hyper sensitivity about sexism (against men or women) is just ridiculous.

I don't thing DAI is sexist because it has more male romances any more than I think Mass Effect 3 is sexist for having more female romances.  I am disappointed in the female LI's we have got in DAI just because I don't find them very appealing.

[Ieldra]

 Probably the game is subtly telling us kissing Leliana and Zevran is so hawt that everyone in Ferelden would notice and all of Loghain's men would instantly swarm you, leading to a game over screen, whereas kissing Alistair and Morrigan is boring and no one cares. 

LOL, that would be a nonstandard game over probably not implemented by anyone before.

 

Not that I agree of course (Morrigan fan here).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not really what this thread is about.  Seems more like a discussion for off-topic (though I can't see it going on long before getting locked there.).

Do not worry, I will no longer pursue this line of dialogue. I expressed my concerns about the post and seeing that most games of that list do not do what the poster claims hundreds of games do, I can tell continuing it will go nowhere. 

[Ieldra]

I am disappointed in the female LI's we have got in DAI just because I don't find them very appealing.

I can relate to that. For playing a male Inquisitor, I find that Cassandra is not my type, and Josephine, while she is, does so far not appear to be very interesting. I hope she will be interesting in the actual game, but at this point, yeah, things do look a little disappointing for my male Inquisitors in the romance department.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

 

 Oh and did anyone else notice one of the hardest creatures in the game is a woman zombie in ME3?

 

 

 

 

 

Okay now I know you're trolling.

[Gtdef]

I can't help but feel that Josephine is neglected for a reason. She is the least relevant member. Cullen and Leliana existed in previous games. The other characters are companions so they will probably be important.

 

I don't know where Josephine falls. I like the premise of her character but alas, activity is paramount. I guess we'll wait and see.

 

On the other hand Bioware didn't release much information for any character. So perhaps it's just my paranoia speaking.

[Vapaa]

 

Oh and did anyone else notice one of the hardest creatures in the game is a woman zombie in ME3?

 

Now you've crossed the paranoia line.

[schall_und_rauch]

Females and LBGT, deserve to have more choices than you: Because having one game that leaves straight males with less, does not make up for, literally, millions of game copies that cater to straight males. 

 

Nobody "deserves" anything in video games. Not the evil white straight male gamer, not the feminist with an agenda, not the black male guy who really wants to feel represented. That's not why games or specific features in games are made.

 

They are made (and decided upon by the powers that be) because enough people with enough buying power want that game/feature to justify the investment associated with such a decision. For BioWare, the market of female and homosexual gamers is big and attractive enough to create that content. Which is all good and fine and has lead to good results. Yes, I am all for not alienating specific demographics, and giving everybody the chance to feel included.

 

However, if you think that BioWare creates romances for the purpose of a social agenda and even out past injustices of the horrible, misogynistic video game industry, then you are mistaken.

 

Personally, I like to see romances as a way of furthering immersion to the game, tell a story and giving characters more depth and complexity as well as a chance to explore their story and the relationship they have to my character. As such, while I like to have some options available to me, I care less about the actual numbers game and if there is some specific gender-race-orientation combination which might get the benefit of having more options.

[Calders]

 

Oh and did anyone else notice one of the hardest creatures in the game is a woman zombie in ME3?

 

 

Brilliant! Before you claim anything is sexist you should really swap the genders around in you head and see if you now think it would be sexists against the other gender.  Because what you are saying here is that any game who's hardest creature is 'male' is sexist against men.... I never knew we had it so bad!

[SnakeCode]

HUH!?! How do games where you kill literally thousands of men (who's sexual identities are never revealed) and (maaaaaaaaybe) a handful of women promote the abuse of women and the LGBT community?

[Chari]

Dudebros whine like babies about romances, sjw whine like babies about romances... because 8 romances with all kinds of set sexualities, gender and even races (with only one group having slightly more choices) is apparently not enough...

It's dang sad seeing Bioware putting so much effort in their work and getting so much ridiculous hate...

[Ieldra]

I can't help but feel that Josephine is neglected for a reason. She is the least relevant member. Cullen and Leliana existed in previous games. The other characters are companions so they will probably be important.

 

I don't know where Josephine falls. I like the premise of her character but alas, activity is paramount. I guess we'll wait and see.

 

On the other hand Bioware didn't release much information for any character. So perhaps it's just my paranoia speaking.

I'm feeling the same, but being a companion has nothing to do with it. In principle that is. Josephine looks extremely interesting as a concept, but so far she doesn't stand out for anything except her appearance, and doesn't stand for anything. I think it would help if we could hear her talk a little. In that she suffers from her status as a not-companion because the existing footage from the game is all out in the field.  

[Ray561]

How do games where you kill literally thousands of men (who's sexual identities are never revealed) and (maaaaaaaaybe) a handful of women promoting the abuse of women and the LGBT community?

For the same reason that Resident Evil 5 was racist.   

[Ravensword]

Dudebros whine like babies about romances, sjw whine like babies about romances... because 8 romances with all kinds of set sexualities, gender and even races (with only one group having slightly more choices) is apparently not enough...

It's dang sad seeing Bioware putting so much effort in their work and getting so much ridiculous hate...

I'm sure they found out long, long ago that it's a thankless job. Not everyone is gonna be 100% happy w/ the work that they do regardless of however much effort they put into it.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm sure they found out long, long ago that it's a thankless job. Not everyone is gonna be 100% happy w/ the work that they do regardless of however much effort they put into it.

I wouldn't say it is thankless. You always see Thank You Bioware posts or threads about things like this. It's just those who are upset tend to be more vocal than those who are content.