3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Chari]

I'm sure they found out long, long ago that it's a thankless job. Not everyone is gonna be 100% happy w/ the work that they do regardless of however much effort they put into it.

I guess so

Well, I am for one feel really happy that we have Bioware, one of few companies whose work is actually feministic, anti-racist and anti-homophobic in many ways

I'm not saying it was always this way or that they're perfect but... seeing the concept of equality getting actually more and more accepted in the industry is really reassuring

Today Bioware, tomorrow, maybe, some other company

[schall_und_rauch]

Dudebros whine like babies about romances, sjw whine like babies about romances... because 8 romances with all kinds of set sexualities, gender and even races (with only one group having slightly more choices) is apparently not enough...

It's dang sad seeing Bioware putting so much effort in their work and getting so much ridiculous hate...

 

For some people, it's not that "8 romances is not enough" but "ze gets the same/more/something different than I get. And I want that too. So it's not fair!"  With racegating now added, the envy doesn't solely cover gender and orientation now, but even race choice.

 

I agree with you that it's sad they get so much hate over what I think is still a pretty damn awesome thing.

And when the developer hate is turned up to over 9000 like in the Jennifer Hepler story, it not only makes me sad, but really, really angry!

[Gtdef]

I'm feeling the same, but being a companion has nothing to do with it. In principle that is. Josephine looks extremely interesting as a concept, but so far she doesn't stand out for anything except her appearance, and doesn't stand for anything. I think it would help if we could hear her talk a little. In that she suffers from her status as a not-companion because the existing footage from the game is all out in the field.  

 

I don't think that her non-companion status matters as well. I brought it up because compared to the other two advisers, she is the stranger. And I agree about hearing her talk. Vivienne's selling point is her skill in speech.

 

I can only guess that Josephine's position requires a similar skillset. And yet there isn't a single piece of information about that. I think the marketing campaign would benefit much by showing an verbal exchange between these 2 women.

[SofaJockey]

Dudebros whine like babies about romances, sjw whine like babies about romances... because 8 romances with all kinds of set sexualities, gender and even races (with only one group having slightly more choices) is apparently not enough...

It's dang sad seeing Bioware putting so much effort in their work and getting so much ridiculous hate...

 

I agree with your sentiments but I'm actually quite optimistic. At least a straight male gamer with concerns is making a sensible choice to come to the BioWare forum to discuss the matter. In my opinion I think that any such concerns are truthfully personal disappointments (I don't like 'x') rather than inequities (the balance of 'y' is unfair).

 

But coming here is a positive step even if it is a little whiny and entitled sometimes (that trait is not restricted to straight male gamers by the way  )

and hey, sometimes people can learn something, I've certainly learnt a few things on this forum.

 

Aside of the inclusion of a few trolls and folk taking a position, I find this forum to be a reasonable but still spirited place to be.

BioWare devs and writers do inhabit the forum (unlike many studios) and whilst I have no doubt there are facepalm moments, there must also be smiles.

 

I also trust they know that if there is a pet issue filling 500 pages, that doesn't mean they have made a mistake, heck most of the concerns about DAI are to do with things that can't be assessed until people play the game!

 

It takes 5 minutes on game sites, youtube and other forums to know what vile low lifes can inhabit those places,

that's why I try not to read comments on those sites as some are beyond offensive.

 

That's why I spend time here. 

[Chari]

For some people, it's not that "8 romances is not enough" but "ze gets the same/more/something different than I get. And I want that too. So it's not fair!"  With racegating now added, the envy doesn't solely cover gender and orientation now, but even race choice.

 

I agree with you that it's sad they get so much hate over what I think is still a pretty damn awesome thing.

And when the developer hate is turned up to over 9000 like in the Jennifer Hepler story, it not only makes me sad, but really, really angry!

I would understand if there would be no choice at all or the fiasco what were femSheps' LI stories (I'm looking at you, Jacob and Thane, ugh). But we have choices, so many choices. One group gets slightly more choices (and due to story reasons) and everyone goes insane. It's not even the dudebros, but one of, eh, "minorities" aka women, straight, but still, women. But no, dudebros call it "a feministic agenda" (as if the feminism is a bad thing) and sjw call it "pandering to the straights" (because straight women "never" face discrimination, yeah) 

I'm so sick of it all, to be honest that I just want to ignore the Tumblr and this forum till the game is released

 

Heck, I didn't like the change of Anders' personality in DA2 and DA2 generally... but stalking and threatening devs for that?

Man, that's just... wow, such shitheads should be in jail... or mental houses

[The Elder King]

I'm very interested in Josephine, but she's suffering compared to the other advisors due to not be shown as the other two were. Leliana has a lot of space in the E3 demo, and Cullen talked a bit in the Gamescon trailer.
Plus, the other two are already known characters with big fanbases.

[Ravensword]

I guess so

Well, I am for one feel really happy that we have Bioware, one of few companies whose work is actually feministic, anti-racist and anti-homophobic in many ways

I'm not saying it was always this way or that they're perfect but... seeing the concept of equality getting actually more and more accepted in the industry is really reassuring

Today Bioware, tomorrow, maybe, some other company

No ones arguing against that. That kind of thing takes time and patience is not a virtue for some people.

[schall_und_rauch]

I would understand if there would be no choice at all or the fiasco what were femSheps' LI stories (I'm looking at you, Jacob and Thane, ugh). But we have choices, so many choices. One group gets slightly more choices (and due to story reasons) and everyone goes insane. It's not even the dudebros, but one of, eh, "minorities" aka women, straight, but still, women. But no, dudebros call it "a feministic agenda" (as if the feminism is a bad thing) and sjw call it "pandering to the straights" (because straight women "never" face discrimination, yeah) 

I'm so sick of it all, to be honest that I just want to ignore the Tumblr and this forum till the game is released

 

Heck, I didn't like the change of Anders' personality in DA2 and DA2 generally... but stalking and threatening devs for that?

Man, that's just... wow, such shitheads should be in jail... or mental houses

Hey, yeah, I am with you! I am so much.

This "one group gets something and we get less" put forth by various groups who feel entitled is something that is repeated all over through the discussion board. You see it in the PC vs. console discussions, we see it in the PoC vs. whites discussions, you see it in Xbox vs. other consoles discussion, and you see it in the romance discussions.

I just want a happy board, or a board with a discussion on what would make the game best for everybody, rather than just one group with a specific agenda whining that the game isn't catered to them.

 

And I also totally agree with you on the Anders thing. I didn't like the change of personality, I think he sucked in DAII (even though he was awesome in DAA), and I think that people who threaten devs for that should be put into jail and never get access to any BioWare game in their life.

[SnakeCode]

I would understand if there would be no choice at all or the fiasco what were femSheps' LI stories (I'm looking at you, Jacob and Thane, ugh). But we have choices, so many choices. One group gets slightly more choices (and due to story reasons) and everyone goes insane. It's not even the dudebros, but one of, eh, "minorities" aka women, straight, but still, women. But no, dudebros call it "a feministic agenda" (as if the feminism is a bad thing) and sjw call it "pandering to the straights" (because straight women "never" face discrimination, yeah) 

I'm so sick of it all, to be honest that I just want to ignore the Tumblr and this forum till the game is released

 

Heck, I didn't like the change of Anders' personality in DA2 and DA2 generally... but stalking and threatening devs for that?

Man, that's just... wow, such shitheads should be in jail... or mental houses

I agree it's annoying, but that's the bsn for you. You just have to deal with it if you want to debate here.

 

There will never be a day that goes by on these boards where people aren't complaining about something. The Bioware forums are slowly becoming Tumblr 2.0.

 

Straight white men are the devil, everything is "problematic" either due to: racism, sexism, lack of representation, or any other number of things sjw's like to focus on.

 

The Bioware forums are the only place i've been where racism and sexism are terms thrown around when people are talking about fictional species.

 

 

I tend to agree with schall_und_rauch, people's frustration is stemming from "they get x and I don't!" Straight male gamers complained about Sera, lesbian gamers complained about Cassandra etc. People won't stop complaining, because we always want what somebody else has.

[Chari]

Hey, yeah, I am with you! I am so much.

This "one group gets something and we get less" put forth by various groups who feel entitled is something that is repeated all over through the discussion board. You see it in the PC vs. console discussions, we see it in the PoC vs. whites discussions, you see it in Xbox vs. other consoles discussion, and you see it in the romance discussions.

I just want a happy board, or a board with a discussion on what would make the game best for everybody, rather than just one group with a specific agenda whining that the game isn't catered to them.

 

And I also totally agree with you on the Anders thing. I didn't like the change of personality, I think he sucked in DAII (even though he was awesome in DAA), and I think that people who threaten devs for that should be put into jail and never get access to any BioWare game in their life.

Maybe we should just start a new thread for people who feel satisfied/grateful/happy about DA:I and write all kinds of nice things to devs

Critisizing is important and good but in too high amounts it can be pretty damaging as well. Mixing it with sweet feedback is the best policy, IMHO. Devs feel tired and pressured already, no need to make them feel even worse especially since it's too late to make any global changes anyway

 

I'm afraid that if we tried to put every potentially abusive and dangerous person in jail, there wouldn't be enough people to actually keep the society working XD But spreading the idea of tolerance, love, equality, common sense and brother/sisterhood may help a little

[schall_und_rauch]

Maybe we should just start a new thread for people who feel satisfied/grateful/happy about DA:I and write all kinds of nice things to devs

Critisizing is important and good but in too high amounts it can be pretty damaging as well. Mixing it with sweet feedback is the best policy, IMHO. Devs feel tired and pressured already, no need to make them feel even worse especially since it's too late to make any global changes anyway

 

 

Please post here:

http://forum.bioware...od-job-bioware/

[Melca36]

Dudebros whine like babies about romances, sjw whine like babies about romances... because 8 romances with all kinds of set sexualities, gender and even races (with only one group having slightly more choices) is apparently not enough...

It's dang sad seeing Bioware putting so much effort in their work and getting so much ridiculous hate...

 

This all goes down to people being mad because they can't romance who they want to. 

 

People should have never expected Inquisition to be like DA2.  People should have never expected their demands to fulfilled.  The world does not work that way.

 

I have no issues rolling male characters as well as female characters. And for $70 I am going to experience ALL aspects of this game.

[Melca36]

Hey, yeah, I am with you! I am so much.

This "one group gets something and we get less" put forth by various groups who feel entitled is something that is repeated all over through the discussion board. You see it in the PC vs. console discussions, we see it in the PoC vs. whites discussions, you see it in Xbox vs. other consoles discussion, and you see it in the romance discussions.

I just want a happy board, or a board with a discussion on what would make the game best for everybody, rather than just one group with a specific agenda whining that the game isn't catered to them.

 

And I also totally agree with you on the Anders thing. I didn't like the change of personality, I think he sucked in DAII (even though he was awesome in DAA), and I think that people who threaten devs for that should be put into jail and never get access to any BioWare game in their life.

 

Its called having an overblown sense of entitlement. And its these same people here on BSN and on Tumblr that make the fandom unpleasant.

 

That said. I can't wait for this game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[schall_und_rauch]

Man, some girls in this forum need to take a chill-pill. Girls who are gamers are a minority: and that is a statistical fact. Who cares, if you got some extra romance options in DAI? Before you know it, we will have women like Isabella back in DA.

 

Yes please! Isabella was awesome! 

 

As for women being a minority: Current fact is 47% female vs. 53% male gamers.

http://www.theesa.co...ESA_EF_2012.pdf

 

And none of us here has any hard facts what the relation for BioWare games is. However, the most prominent fan videos and fan art as well as a lot of the hype being generated is done by female gamers. If that means more Isabella, I'm all for it.

[SnakeCode]

This all goes down to people being mad because they can't romance who they want to. 

 

People should have never expected Inquisition to be like DA2.  People should have never expected their demands to fulfilled.  The world does not work that way.

 

I have no issues rolling male characters as well as female characters. And for $70 I am going to experience ALL aspects of this game.

Agreed 100%. People are getting angry because Bioware tried to cater to all parties instead of specifically catering to them. I too will be rolling multiple characters of various species, gender and sexualities. I don't see the point of limiting yourself only to complain that you don't like your options.

 

Every LI is available to every player, if they are willing to break the mold and experiment a bit.

[Ianamus]

I agree that the extreme negative reaction to this news is completely ridiculous. 

 

Bioware have made it clear that their goals are to give all players options (more than one choice) in romance content and to give better representation of LGBT characters in their games, and that is exactly what they are doing in Inquisition. They have also made it clear that completely equal LI numbers in all games is not something they feel is a priority.

 

So complaining about the numbers after every Bioware game is pointless. It's not going to change Biowares priorities, it's just going to make the people who feel the need to bring it up all the time miserable and everyone else on the forums miserable. 

 

People need to accept that equal LI numbers just isn't happening in the majority of Bioware games and move on.  

[SamanthaJ]

Finally, reasonable talk. I've been afraid to do more than observe from a distance these past couple days since things have been so toxic. It's not as bad as tumblr where people are taking it out on the characters themselves. I thought people would be more happy, but it seems numbers are a larger concern. I guess I lucked out though since I like playing all the genders and races and romancing all the genders and whatnot. It helps that my favorite character type has six options, all of which I like Solas is totally gonna be my first

[Gtdef]

Agreed 100%. People are getting angry because Bioware tried to cater to all parties instead of specifically catering to them. I too will be rolling multiple characters of various species, gender and sexualities. I don't see the point of limiting yourself only to complain that you don't like your options.

 

Every LI is available to every player, if they are willing to break the mold and experiment a bit.

 

Catering is such a strong word. It's perfectly normal for gay wanting blackwall, lesbian wanting cass and straight wanting viv. Experimenting is besides the point. Just because an option exists doesn't mean you have to take it if you don't want to. Also the impact isn't the same.

 

There is a different dynamic between straight and gay romancing blackwall for example. A different experience.

 

Going back to DAO, playing a male I've actually done all 3 romances (in a single playthrough) and ended up with anora. The concept of the character was a rake in the vein of the movie "The Libertine". You think that the experience would be even remotely the same by using a female character?

[Sporothrix]

I tend to agree with schall_und_rauch, people's frustration is stemming from "they get x and I don't!" Straight male gamers complained about Sera, lesbian gamers complained about Cassandra etc. People won't stop complaining, because we always want what somebody else has.

Nice way to dismiss complaints of members of a group that was always marginilized in video games by equating it with people everything was always pandered to.

 

 

This all goes down to people being mad because they can't romance who they want to.

 

And to reminders that by expecting not getting worse treatment than straight people we're putting the cart before the horse.

[Dermain]

 

There will never be a day that goes by on these boards where people aren't complaining about something. The Bioware forums are slowly becoming Tumblr 2.0.

 

Slowly? How long have you been around? We're approaching 10.0 at this rate. 

 

 

Maybe we should just start a new thread for people who feel satisfied/grateful/happy about DA:I and write all kinds of nice things to devs

Critisizing is important and good but in too high amounts it can be pretty damaging as well. Mixing it with sweet feedback is the best policy, IMHO. Devs feel tired and pressured already, no need to make them feel even worse especially since it's too late to make any global changes anyway

 

If this forum has taught me anything, the opposing view people will slowly migrate to the happy thread to turn it into a sad thread. 

 

As for the criticizing:

 

There seems to be this belief people have that if they don't constantly "criticize" the same thing for years on end that the developers will forget about it. I have no idea how this idea came to be, but it doesn't look like it would be effective. If you are going to rehash your same criticism over and over again you stand the actual chances of being ignored...which doesn't help the "criticism" at all.

 

Heck, I didn't like the change of Anders' personality in DA2 and DA2 generally... but stalking and threatening devs for that?

Man, that's just... wow, such shitheads should be in jail... or mental houses

 

Society would be a better place for that.

 

 

Catering is such a strong word. It's perfectly normal for gay wanting blackwall, lesbian wanting cass and straight wanting viv. Experimenting is besides the point. Just because an option exists doesn't mean you have to take it if you don't want to. Also the impact isn't the same.

 

There is a different dynamic between straight and gay romancing blackwall for example. A different experience.

 

Going back to DAO, playing a male I've actually done all 3 romances (in a single playthrough) and ended up with anora. The concept of the character was a rake in the vein of the movie "The Libertine". You think that the experience would be even remotely the same by using a female character?

 

I would be perfectly fine with every romance being open to everyone again, but it is what it is. There's nothing really wrong with the whole "gating" thing besides people's expectations being ruined, and if you're creating Fable levels of hype for yourself it's to be expected. 

 

As for the bolded part:

 

It would not be the same, and I would feel sorry for that female character knowing all of the things (our) society would scream at her.

[Calders]

Nice way to dismiss complaints of members of a group that was always marginilized in video games by equating it with people everything was always pandered to.

 

This language betrays the prejudice.  Its no that one group was 'pandered' to its that one group was perceived to be the target audience, and for a long time that was probably true.  It is no surprise that games biased there appeal towards a target audience.  It's not like games companies where saying "we have equal numbers of men and women playing are games but lets try and make our games so they only appeal to men".

Not that any of that matters, we should treat the world the way we find it today, equality can not be obtained through revenge. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Do people have to use the SJW name? some people do go overboard about inclusion but i generally hear that phrase as a insult to anyone who dares to want something different then "alpha male straight PC" & "sexy & weak female sidekick" in games

[Gtdef]

I would be perfectly fine with every romance being open to everyone again, but it is what it is. There's nothing really wrong with the whole "gating" thing besides people's expectations being ruined, and if you're creating Fable levels of hype for yourself it's to be expected. 

 

As for the bolded part:

 

It would not be the same, and I would feel sorry for that female character knowing all of the things (our) society would scream at her.

 

You seem to like exaggeration. There was one unannounced LI and that was either Viv or BW. Either of them being bi was nowhere near fable hype. I think the reveal was disappointing and they could do better than that. 

 

And for the bolded part, I doubt that our society today looks down more to a bi girl that sleeps around than a bi man that sleeps around. I think they use the expression "the girl explores her sexuality", while for the man they say "******".

 

But in any case, screw society. 

[SnakeCode]

Nice way to dismiss complaints of members of a group that was always marginilized in video games by equating it with people everything was always pandered to.

 

Why wouldn't I? They're complaining about the exact same thing. I wasn't dismissing anybody with that statement. If you think certain demographics are more entitled to complain because of the lack of privilege in the past, then good for you, I don't. Especially when both groups essentially have the exact same complaints.

[Calders]

Do people have to use the SJW name? some people do go overboard about inclusion but i generally hear that phrase as a insult to anyone who dares to want something different then "alpha male straight PC" & "sexy & weak female sidekick" in games

 

I think its more a case that SJW is used to describe people who say we must have women or minorities portrayed in a particular way, and that anybody who expresses a preference for something that does match this world view is clearly evil..