3344 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

Catering is such a strong word. It's perfectly normal for gay wanting blackwall, lesbian wanting cass and straight wanting viv. Experimenting is besides the point. Just because an option exists doesn't mean you have to take it if you don't want to. Also the impact isn't the same.

 

There is a different dynamic between straight and gay romancing blackwall for example. A different experience.

 

Going back to DAO, playing a male I've actually done all 3 romances (in a single playthrough) and ended up with anora. The concept of the character was a rake in the vein of the movie "The Libertine". You think that the experience would be even remotely the same by using a female character?

Of course it's normal, that wasn't my argument, and I never said anything about the dynamic being the same.

 

The point is, if you are only willing to play one specific type of character, You are limiting yourself, you can't blame the game or the devs for that.

 

I dont like my options does not = I have no options.

[Gtdef]

Of course it's normal, that wasn't my argument, and I never said anything about the dynamic being the same.

 

The point is, if you are only willing to play one specific type of character, You are limiting yourself, you can't blame the game or the devs for that.

 

I dont like my options does not = I have no options.

 

The comment about normal was more of an afterthought, sorry if I didn't phrase the post right. I was mostly directed to your comment about experimentation.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I think its more a case that SJW is used to describe people who say we must have women or minorities portrayed in a particular way, and that anybody who expresses a preference for something that does match this world view is clearly evil..

Yeah, i know some people take it way too far, just gets annoying when its directed at anyone who wants something different then a all white, all straight cast where the males are super badass & the females only exist for sex appeal

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

You seem to like exaggeration. There was one unannounced LI and that was either Viv or BW. Either of them being bi was nowhere near fable hype. I think the reveal was disappointing and they could do better than that. 
 
And for the bolded part, I doubt that our society today looks down more to a bi girl that sleeps around than a bi man that sleeps around. I think they use the expression "the girl explores her sexuality", while for the man they say "******".
 
But in any case, screw society.

Im not sure about that, a woman who enjoys sex is usually shamed as being a w*ore but if a guy does it he's congratulated & called a stud

[Gtdef]

Im not sure about that, a woman who enjoys sex is usually shamed as being a w*ore but if a guy does it he's congratulated & called a stud

 

Well, if we are going to use these stereotypes, we need to assume that the word society for the purpose of the conversation means "ignorant straight people, mostly male".

 

Ignorant straight males tend to congratulate women who sleep with women and bash on men who sleep with men. So no, on this particular topic, is the other way around. 

[Sporothrix]

Why wouldn't I? They're complaining about the exact same thing. I wasn't dismissing anybody with that statement. If you think certain demographics are more entitled to complain because of the lack of privilege in the past, then good for you, I don't. Especially when both groups essentially have the exact same complaints.

 

You also liked post of Calders saying that my statement: "Nice way to dismiss complaints of members of a group that was always marginilized in video games by equating it with people everything was always pandered to", which I wrote in response to your post which equated the complaints of lesbians with complaints of straight men, "betrays the prejudice".

 

Apparently by stating the fact that since straight men always had it better in video games and thus their situation is not symmetrical to situation of mistreated minority group, I'm expressing prejudice toward straight men.

 

I must say, with this kind of rhetoric and opinions, it's actually you guys who betray your actual stance.

[SnakeCode]

Well, if we are going to use these stereotypes, we need to assume that the word society for the purpose of the conversation means "ignorant straight people, mostly male".

 

Ignorant straight males tend to congratulate women who sleep with women and bash on men who sleep with men. So no, on this particular topic, is the other way around. 

This is true in my experience as well. From what I have seen and heard, sl*t shaming tends to be something carried out by other women. And I have never heard any man call another guy a stud (at least not unless it was ironically, anyway.)

[Gtdef]

This is true in my experience as well. From what I have seen and heard, sl*t shaming tends to be something carried out by other women. And I have never heard any man call another guy a stud (at least not ironically, anyway."

 

I concur. My personal experiences differ from a lot of stereotypes as well.

[Calders]

Ignorant straight males tend to congratulate women who sleep with women and bash on men who sleep with men. So no, on this particular topic, is the other way around. 

 

You think only straight males do this??  Ignorant attitudes are not the exclusive property of any group.

 

Edit: I think misunderstood your point... so ignore this.

 

Also there is actually a reason for our different attitudes to promiscuity (note its promiscuity that attracts the labels not the enjoyment of sex).  Our attitudes basically come from the fact that men have no certainty beyond the fidelity of their partners that they are raising their own children.  I'm not saying that excuse the distinction in treatment but there is a reason for it.

[SnakeCode]

You also liked post of Calders saying that my statement: "Nice way to dismiss complaints of members of a group that was always marginilized in video games by equating it with people everything was always pandered to", which I wrote in response to your post which equated the complaints of lesbians with complaints of straight men, "betrays the prejudice".

 

Apparently by stating the fact that since straight men always had it better in video games and thus their situation is not symmetrical to situation of mistreated minority group, I'm expressing prejudice toward straight men.

 

I must say, with this kind of rhetoric and opinions, it's actually you guys who betray your actual stance.

I'll be honest, I don't really know what you're trying to say here, I liked a post so that means i'm prejudiced somehow? It couldn't be because I agree with the overall point that the poster was making?

 

Who has been mistreated exactly? Straight men, gay men and gay women all have the exact same number of options.

[jtav]

Well I've been blasted for not playing enough women in ME. So the social justice focus has interacted with my anxiety so that I second guess my preferences a lot.

[Gtdef]

You think only straight males do this??  Ignorant attitudes are not the exclusive property of any group.

 

Also there is actually a reason for our different attitudes to promiscuity (note its promiscuity that attracts the labels not the enjoyment of sex).  Our attitudes basically come from the fact that men have no certainty beyond the fidelity of their partners that they are raising their own children.  I'm not saying that excuse the distinction in treatment but there is a reason for it.

 

I'm aware of this. I'm a straight male as well. I was responding to a very particular point that started earlier with a case of ****-shaming.

[carlo angelo]

This is true in my experience as well. From what I have seen and heard, sl*t shaming tends to be something carried out by other women. And I have never heard any man call another guy a stud (at least not ironically, anyway."

No, but they'd call him a 'legend', or some other similar term, from what I've seen of the bro-dude, chest-thumping, machismo-oozing subsection of heterosexual men.

 

But hey, that's as much as I'm gonna say on this topic, otherwise it's pretty much based on my own experiences and that probably won't ring true for a lot of other people.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

This is true in my experience as well. From what I have seen and heard, sl*t shaming tends to be something carried out by other women. And I have never heard any man call another guy a stud (at least not unless it was ironically, anyway.)

Maybe it's just cos i know alot more arrogant A-holes, but ive heard quite a few guys who see sleeping with as many girls as possible as a game, & they congratulate each other while insulting their female "conquests"

[Sporothrix]

Who has been mistreated exactly? Straight men, gay men and gay women all have the exact same number of options.

 

So now you're trying to pretend the past doesn't matter, and thus, there is no difference in treatment? Even though David Gaider's words suggest that the idea of making the "bonus" LIs anything other than straight, regardless of any "story reasons", was never seriously taken into consideration because gay people having more options than straight people would be so revolutionary that "let's not put the cart before the horse, shall we"?

[schall_und_rauch]

Maybe it's just cos i know alot more arrogant A-holes, but ive heard quite a few guys who see sleeping with as many girls as possible as a game, & they congratulate each other while insulting their female "conquests"

 

<Offtopic>: But, then again, there seem to be enough women who sleep with them.

If no women slept with arrogant A-holes, then those guys would be less congratulating and insulting.

[Gtdef]

Maybe it's just cos i know alot more arrogant A-holes, but ive heard quite a few guys who see sleeping with as many girls as possible as a game, & they congratulate each other while insulting their female "conquests"

 

No you are right. What you describe certainly happens and was kind of a trend some years back. Accompanied with the rise of dating gurus and what not. I was actually pretty interested in this "subculture". Learned a lot of things about society tendencies and stereotypes. But tbh I don't think that most stereotypes of the past 5-10 years are applicable that easily today. 

[Zazzerka]

Maybe it's just cos i know alot more arrogant A-holes, but ive heard quite a few guys who see sleeping with as many girls as possible as a game, & they congratulate each other while insulting their female "conquests"

 

"If a key opens many locks, it's an excellent key. If a lock is opened by many keys, it's a terrible lock."

[Winged Silver]

First things first

 

I want to thank Bioware for even making these sorts of games! I haven't felt this excited for a new release in such a long time, and the wait only gets harder to bear as the release date draws closer. Pre-ordered and ready to go!

 

Secondly,

I don't really understand all these complaints about LI inequality. For a couple of reasons. I believe a point of Bioware's games has been to create "realistic" scenarios where you, as the character, get to thoughtfully decide how you want to go about something, and what sort of impact you want to have. This means hard decisions, unavoidable deaths of characters, and other issues that are seen as serious. To this end, I think it only makes sense that not everybody is going to have the perfect amount of characters to romance. As a straight female gamer, I wasn't too affected by the decision to have the characters introduced in Mass Effect 2 as primarily straight (not sure if I count Kelly or not). The way I saw it, sometimes the people you work with just aren't into you(r gender). And that's sort of the view I'm taking with Dragon Age: Inquisition. Sometimes you meet people who find "you" (the character) sexually attractive, and sometimes you don't. That just seems like Bioware is trying to introduce some more realism (because the situation that occurred in Dragon Age 2 where everyone who wasn't a DLC character was bisexual, though not impossible, seems like an unusual one (and since we've brought up the DLC character, it actually fits his character to be straight. Which I think is the goal Bioware has in mind with DA:I. To make characters who make sense, given their backgrounds)). With this in mind, I'm incredibly pleased that we even have as many options, and definitely intend to play through multiple times as different races, classes, and genders. I also think that if you, whatever sort of person you are with whatever preferences, feel cheated because you don't have as many as someone else, or you were gunning for a specific character with your specific Inquisitor, it's probably best to just try to get over that, and maybe even try a play through as a character you don't normally play (I love playing as BroHawke with any sexuality). 

 

I can understand that it may seem unfair, and unkind of Bioware to leave you and your preferences on the shorter end, but it's just something that's best taken in stride, because I think we can all agree that if not this title, some future Bioware title will cater to your interests. To the people saying that giving straight females more options in this game to make up for the lack of options in Mass Effect 3, I'm doubtful that is the case. As I haven't yet played the game (obviously), I can't say for sure, but it would be my guess that each character has a reason central to the plot for being who they are, and for liking what they like. Sure, it's too bad Cullen never found an interest in kossith or dwarves, but it's not unexpected either given his past. I have a feeling that if Bioware had given us a game where each demographic received two characters each, someone would still be complaining that so-and-so should've be bisexual, or something, because as forum posters we're rather good at finding things to complain about.

 

So overall, if you're so goddamn specific in what you play as that you can only play 2-4 times to romance each character you want to, that's still reportedly 200-400 hours of gameplay (according to dev reports. I'm actually guess the time it will take to complete the game is closer to half those figures). Which is still worth it, in my opinion. And seriously, as a role playing game, it really is a lot of fun to play as something or someone you don't normally try. So to wrap it up, you can totally decide to feel cheated and unhappy, but it's not going to change the game, and probably not going to change too much in the future, since Bioware does a decent job at trying to provide options, and at least attempts to keep things even.

 

Thank you Bioware, and I look forward to more news and the (hopefully soon) release of the Dragon Age Keep. 

[Ieldra]

So now you're trying to pretend the past doesn't matter, and thus, there is no difference in treatment? Even though David Gaider's words suggest that the idea of making the "bonus" LIs anything other than straight, regardless of any "story reasons", was never seriously taken into consideration because gay people having more options than straight people would be so revolutionary that "let's not put the cart before the horse, shall we"?

Yes, it actually would. Because gays are not the majority in society. Equal representation, for a minority, is a privilege, and were the numbers not so low that the absolute numbers matter more, I would not support it. 2 and 2 LIs, that's fine. 20 and 20, I'd feel gays were privileged. (and btw, equal rights and equal representation are very different things. As I see it, you can rightfully demand the former, but not the latter).

[Sporothrix]

No you are right. What you describe certainly happens and was kind of a trend some years back. Accompanied with the rise of dating gurus and what not. I was actually pretty interested in this "subculture". Learned a lot of things about society tendencies and stereotypes. But tbh I don't think that most stereotypes of the past 5-10 years are applicable that easily today. 

 

Yeah, nowadays there are sites where such guys place naked pictures and sex movies of their ex-girlfriends with intention to humiliate them.

[WildOrchid]

I think its more a case that SJW is used to describe people who say we must have women or minorities portrayed in a particular way, and that anybody who expresses a preference for something that does match this world view is clearly evil..

 

There are always "extreme" cases in every group.

[Chari]

Maybe it's just cos i know alot more arrogant A-holes, but ive heard quite a few guys who see sleeping with as many girls as possible as a game, & they congratulate each other while insulting their female "conquests"

That's kind of an attitude is, unfortunatelly, way too common

Blatant sexism, even abusive one as well

[WildOrchid]

"If a key opens many locks, it's an excellent key. If a lock is opened by many keys, it's a terrible lock."

 

"A pencil sharpener that sharpens all kinds of pencils is a good sharpener. A pencil that lets itself be sharpened by too many sharpeners has to be thrown away"

[Calders]

Yes, it actually would. Because gays are not the majority in society. Equal representation, for a minority, is a privilege, and were the numbers not so low that the absolute numbers matter more, I would not support it. 2 and 2 LIs, that's fine. 20 and 20, I'd feel gays were privileged. (and btw, equal rights and equal representation are very different things).

 

Yes its a difficult question:  When is it fair to treat all groups exactly the same, and when is it fair to treat all groups in proportion to their numbers.  What is unfair is to treat groups differently dependant upon historic wrongs.... after all you are not talking about the actual same people.  Some ancestor of mine probably killed a lot of Frenchmen but that doesn't mean I should be punished for that.