3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Blakwall! thank you Bio for female only.

Well, congrats to you on being right in the Blackwall thread that there was no way that he would be bi or gay, since he was too noble. Maybe we should listen to you more often.  

[Mabari-Master]

While I am somewhat disappointed with the female romance options for male Inquisitors, I will admit that I'm pleased with the male love interests for female Inquisitors. No offense to anyone, but I think the male romance options in DA2 were a bit of a let down. They were both reeeaallly whiney and sensitive about everything, and they complained so much that it made it hard to try and romance them whether I played male or female.

 

These new male LIs however, seem more impressive. As said by Freddy Prinz Jr. Iron Bull has an alpha personality and is ben-hessrath so whining and complaining is not is thing. Blackwall seems like the kind of guy who doesn't let his troubles slow him down or effect his sense of right and wrong. Cullen I'm a little apprehensive about because I know he's got some biased opions on certain matters. And I know next to squat about Solas.

[BioticMarauder]

Blakwall! thank you Bio for female only.

Wow, you're finally satisfied.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm about to head home.  When I come back I'll be addressing a ton of issues with this thread.

 

Thread closed in the meantime.  Pray the mods find the reports before I get home.

[Allan Schumacher]

Just seems like there's not a lot of options for my player character compared to the previous games. I mean there's more overall romance options yeah  and it's obvious Bioware has put more work into them with story elements, it just feels to me like it's restricted the overall "choices" to me.

 

As I go through the thread I want to point out (since I see this coming up a lot).  You have just as many romance options as a straight man as you did in both DAO and DA2.

 

Equal options in DAO, More options in DA2 and double the options in DAI, I think our annoyance is justified.

 

I, to be frank, do not.  More on that below.

 

You have to realise why he's angry though, we are not used to experiencing this.

This is about as literal of a definition of privilege as I think there can be.  The idea that straight men are so often blind to the advantages they get is telling.  I hope, at the very least, it improves your ability to see things from the lens of a different person going forward.

 

Remember, You can't answer years of inequality with more inequality. That's why we're a little upset and to be honest it's entirely justified.

 

No, but if the story we create is going to be unequal, we're going to look at it from the greater picture rather than a single game.  Which, unfortunately, means that I think if we're going to give a group extra romance options, it's unlikely to be straight males because they have a history of receiving such content.  This, of course, overlooks the straight males that do not have issues playing other genders/sexualities in the game, whom likely aren't that distraught about this news at all.

 

Equality is not "all games always have the equal amount of romance options."  Equality is "The entirety of gaming in aggregate has reasonably equivalent representation."  That is, a situation where if our game had our breakdown, people wouldn't care because they're still getting their share elsewhere.  It's why I get upset at the term "representation" because in an individual game, straight men (of which I am one) being absent is not reflective of systemic representation issues.  Straight men are in all forms of media, with a variety of depictions as well (i.e. they aren't stereotyped).

 

I can understand that you're disappointed, and that it being a new feeling is a shock.  I consider this a good thing because I think it's very useful tool for your own personal growth.  That "ugh" feeling.  Next time some jerk on a different forum says "whatever straight men should be catered to because <reasons>," I personally ask you to take the moment to chime in to that person and say "I don't think so... it's a pretty crappy feeling to be left out."

 

 

 

Speaking more generally, as I may have hinted towards... if there's a group that I'd be most willing to "short change" (or better stated, since only one group is really benefiting here, I'd be most unwilling to focus on) it'd be the straight male group because within pop culture (games, movies, etc) they are already the beneficiaries of so much content.  So I do not consider it the same level of "inequality" to have them get less options than a different group, as opposed to those other groups.

 

While I fully expect it to be seen as empty words (since for all the talk of trying to focus more on LGBT representation, lesbians and gay men receive less than straight people), I do consider their cries for representation to have a much more solid grounding than some guys who, for maybe the first time in their gaming life, have to deal with the reality that sometimes not everything is going to fall their way.

 

I actually don't feel it's necessary for all our games to have precisely the same amount of options for all because sometimes a story/narrative may make sense, and in the case of DAI the alternative would be simply not doing that content instead, which is still unfortunate to anyone that would like that content.  I do, however, personally feel a bias towards giving straight male gamers the bonus at this time because of their lengthy track record of receiving the most focus and content.

 

So yes, I actually do feel that gay men and lesbians have a touch more reason to be upset... though if a straight man feels upset I won't begrudge them that feeling.  I do hope, however, that they can step back and realize the big picture regarding their disappointment and can better empathize with people that are not like themselves going forward.

 

Thread reopened.  Be excellent to each other.

[Ceoldoren]

Bravo Allan, no one could've said it better.

[Autumn Crowe]

AWESOME STUFF

Just.  Just props to you.  Props forever.  Have a laurel and then some. 

[CDRSkyShepard]

I wish it was a bit more balanced, but BRAH-VO. You guys have really outdone yourselves this time! Holy wow.

[veeia]

Oh gosh, just...a lot of thoughts flying around here.

 

First off, obviously I am grateful to Bioware/the devs for making the games and creating such amazing characters, and putting some focus on LGBT characters. That's never unnoticed or unappreciated. I look forward to playing the game, and for many many reasons beyond the romances, but for them too.

 

As a bisexual woman...I have a lot of options in this game, which is exciting. I play dwarf, so I am a bit more limited, but even that "limited" is 4 options, so...that's pretty freaking cool.

 

But overall it is a bit disappointing. I'm not saying I'm ungrateful to have so many options--that would be a lie, but I don't really feel good about it coming alongside gay and lesbian players feeling like they are left behind again. :/  

 

I'm also bummed that once again, the noble/religious/serious type characters seem to all be straight options. Often seems that the LGBT romances have more of a "divergent" personality, and well...it would be nice to see more diversity there, I guess. 

 

So yeah...personally excited. I have no idea who I will romance---I can't really imagine planning it out though. With the exception of Cullen, I don't even have a clue who most of these characters really are, and even he's bound to be in a totally different place. I'm looking forward to getting to know all the companions and figuring out who will be my friends/romance as I go.

 

But I do feel really sad and upset for the people who weren't given as many options, and have a lot of anxieties about the themes and kinds of stories and content gay characters will get vs straight ones. Also, Vivienne. So I suppose all I can do is wait and see, but...y'all have my support. I'm sorry to everyone who is feeling disappointed.

[JWvonGoethe]

Tempted to play a bisexual female elf and flirt outrageously with all 6 available options. I'll just let the game decide which one is the romance.

[f1r3storm]

Finally we get to see dwarf and Iron Bull action.

[Milana]

I'm happy you understand that  "gay men and lesbians have a touch more reason to be upset"...still all this explanation how making them straight makes sense to the story doesnt sit really well with me

[Gtdef]

No, but if the story we create is going to be unequal, we're going to look at it from the greater picture rather than a single game.  Which, unfortunately, means that I think if we're going to give a group extra romance options, it's unlikely to be straight males because they have a history of receiving such content. 

 

Great post overall but I wish you hadn't said this one. Not because of the options for different groups etc, I don't care too much about it. But I thought that the point of the characters are to fit the story, not to be some kind of social commentary. 

 

Personally I didn't like how the romances ended up being but I thought the reason was that the team did not compromise their vision for the characters to please the audience. If what you're saying is true and not just some attempt to reduce the amount of "privilege" posts, then there is a whole new set of considerations to make.

[Fizzie Panda]

As I go through the thread I want to point out (since I see this coming up a lot).  You have just as many romance options as a straight man as you did in both DAO and DA2.

 

 

I, to be frank, do not.  More on that below.

 

This is about as literal of a definition of privilege as I think there can be.  The idea that straight men are so often blind to the advantages they get is telling.  I hope, at the very least, it improves your ability to see things from the lens of a different person going forward.

 

 

No, but if the story we create is going to be unequal, we're going to look at it from the greater picture rather than a single game.  Which, unfortunately, means that I think if we're going to give a group extra romance options, it's unlikely to be straight males because they have a history of receiving such content.  This, of course, overlooks the straight males that do not have issues playing other genders/sexualities in the game, whom likely aren't that distraught about this news at all.

 

Equality is not "all games always have the equal amount of romance options."  Equality is "The entirety of gaming in aggregate has reasonably equivalent representation."  That is, a situation where if our game had our breakdown, people wouldn't care because they're still getting their share elsewhere.  It's why I get upset at the term "representation" because in an individual game, straight men (of which I am one) being absent is not reflective of systemic representation issues.  Straight men are in all forms of media, with a variety of depictions as well (i.e. they aren't stereotyped).

 

I can understand that you're disappointed, and that it being a new feeling is a shock.  I consider this a good thing because I think it's very useful tool for your own personal growth.  That "ugh" feeling.  Next time some jerk on a different forum says "whatever straight men should be catered to because <reasons>," I personally ask you to take the moment to chime in to that person and say "I don't think so... it's a pretty crappy feeling to be left out."

 

 

 

Speaking more generally, as I may have hinted towards... if there's a group that I'd be most willing to "short change" (or better stated, since only one group is really benefiting here, I'd be most unwilling to focus on) it'd be the straight male group because within pop culture (games, movies, etc) they are already the beneficiaries of so much content.  So I do not consider it the same level of "inequality" to have them get less options than a different group, as opposed to those other groups.

 

While I fully expect it to be seen as empty words (since for all the talk of trying to focus more on LGBT representation, lesbians and gay men receive less than straight people), I do consider their cries for representation to have a much more solid grounding than some guys who, for maybe the first time in their gaming life, have to deal with the reality that sometimes not everything is going to fall their way.

 

I actually don't feel it's necessary for all our games to have precisely the same amount of options for all because sometimes a story/narrative may make sense, and in the case of DAI the alternative would be simply not doing that content instead, which is still unfortunate to anyone that would like that content.  I do, however, personally feel a bias towards giving straight male gamers the bonus at this time because of their lengthy track record of receiving the most focus and content.

 

So yes, I actually do feel that gay men and lesbians have a touch more reason to be upset... though if a straight man feels upset I won't begrudge them that feeling.  I do hope, however, that they can step back and realize the big picture regarding their disappointment and can better empathize with people that are not like themselves going forward.

 

Thread reopened.  Be excellent to each other.

 

Allan I can't help but feel you are painting all straight men with the same brush. I agree that in the past straight males, mainly whites, have had more privileges than others, that's a given, but I think it goes too far when straight males of the present are compared to straight males of the past. I firmly believe the only way to solve inequality is to have no inequality at all.

 

Maybe instead of saying "this group needs to get less" we should all be saying "this group needs to get more." I do realize Solas and Cullen were later additions and initially everyone was in fact equal. I would have done the same thing in your shoes. That is to give an opportunity where more people can have more options. Solas and Cullen just happen to be heterosexual. It's obvious there was no malicious intent when deciding who the LI's would be.

 

I would just release the LI info at the same time.

 

This has definitely been a learning experience for me, and I'd like to say I'm better off for it. I'll definitely take your advice and say where it needs to be said: "being on the short end of the stick is an awful, awful feeling; for others to receive less just so you can receive more is extremely negative."

[Ceoldoren]

Allan I can't help but feel you are painting all straight men with the same brush. I agree that in the past straight males, mainly whites, have had more privileges than others, that's a given, but I think it goes too far when straight males of the present are compared to straight males of the past. I firmly believe the only way to solve inequality is to have no inequality at all.

 

Maybe instead of saying "this group needs to get less" we should all be saying "this group needs to get more." I do realize Solas and Cullen were later additions and initially everyone was in fact equal. I would have done the same thing in your shoes. That is to give an opportunity where more people can have more options. Solas and Cullen just happen to be heterosexual. It's obvious there was no malicious intent when deciding who the LI's would be.

 

I would just release the LI info at the same time.

 

This has definitely been a learning experience for me, and I'd like to say I'm better off for it. I'll definitely take your advice and say where it needs to be said: "being on the short end of the stick is an awful, awful feeling; for others to receive less just so you can receive more is extremely negative."

I agree mostly, I think we should just all be equal and let that be that. And I don't think we should hold the past against people. But it wouldn't hurt for LGB people to get one or two more options.

[Fizzie Panda]

I agree mostly, I think we should just all be equal and let that be that. And I don't think we should hold the past against people. But it wouldn't hurt for LGB people to get one or two more options.

Exactly, we should look towards the future! And it absolutely would not hurt

[Girtuoklis]

These romances sucks. I guess my straight male elven inquisitor will be forever alone

[Random]

 

Maybe instead of saying "this group needs to get less" we should all be saying "this group needs to get more." I do realize Solas and Cullen were later additions and initially everyone was in fact equal. I would have done the same thing in your shoes. That is to give an opportunity where more people can have more options. Solas and Cullen just happen to be heterosexual. It's obvious there was no malicious intent when deciding who the LI's would be.

I'll just say one thing and then go to sleep. I still don't feel like the straight males 'got less'. It's more like the straight males got the same, gays got the same, and straight females and bisexuals got a helluva lot more options. 

[ElitePinecone]

Maybe more diversity in writing room could bring some broader perspective.

lol

The lead writer is gay and the majority of the writing team are women.

[Fizzie Panda]

These romances sucks. I guess my straight male elven inquisitor will be forever alone

Don't worry, you haven't met Cassandra or Josephine. Besides, there are other Inquisitors to be made!

[Fizzie Panda]

I'll just say one thing and then go to sleep. I still don't feel like the straight males 'got less'. It's more like the straight males got the same, gays got the same, and straight females and bisexuals got a helluva lot more options. 

I should have elaborated my quote was more along the lines of giving (LI's) instead of taking (LI's away) /preventing (them from happening). They did, though I agree they gave a lot!

[Milana]

lol

The lead writer is gay and the majority of the writing team are women.

Try watching Teen Wolf,their lead writer is gay, and his represantation of lgbt is bad on the extreme level.

[Ceoldoren]

I should have elaborated my quote was more along the lines of giving (LI's) instead of taking (LI's away) /preventing (them from happening). They did, though I agree they gave a lot!

Yeah, I also don't see it as Straight men having gotten less. They got the same as everyone else pretty much. Nothing to complain about this time.

[Fizzie Panda]

Yeah, I also don't see it as Straight men having gotten less. They got the same as everyone else pretty much. Nothing to complain about this time.

Exactly! I mean initially I was like "woah hold on a sec" but now I'm like "hey they got more, good for them" (in reality we ALL got more).

 

I suppose I was more devastated that Vivienne wasn't an LI rather than the fact I didn't get as many should I play a straight male.