3344 réponses à ce sujet

[vutha_ixen]

Just.sombody2 is right. I am an avid arguer, but we need to call it a night (or more correctly day ). Our arguing is getting nowhere. I'm not convinced bioware shorted anyone out, and some of you are avid believers they did. We should just agree to dissagree, and realize that it is way too late for any changes to be made now (short of another delay to release ). I'm sure bioware has heard both sides of the argument and will take your critisims into account when makeing their next game. Believe it or not they do listen, and trust me you have been heard. Arguing just makes them wonder if it is worth it.

[Ray561]

With that I'm done arguing with you because you will never see past your own anger.

[Caelorummors]

Jesus. hetero-males, ******-females and -males, let me explain something: You are not getting less just because someone else is getting more. According to the core romances, we all got the same. With extra development time, and in accord with character/story arcs, hetero-females got more choices. They got bonus content. You did not have content stripped away. I mean, I can understand being upset with who your choices are. (When I thought it was going to be Viv and Cass I was very unimpressed with the female options being bland and uninteresting in my opinion. Luckily Josephine gives me hope.) But to get so upset over others getting bonus content is just silly.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Which highlights the point that these characters are designed by Bioware. They're not people randomly dragged off the streets with the designers having no agency over who is represented. 

After (I've tried to work it out but I might have missed some) 39 romances in Bioware games over the years (not including SWTOR) there have been only 2 who are with black characters; Aarin Gend (NWN) and Jacob Taylor (ME2) and that last one crashes and burns.

There may well be an aspect of Vivienne's character that makes her status as non-romanceable perfectly understandable but that doesn't distract from the point that she was designed by Bioware. The people in charge could very well have designed Josephine as a black woman. The fantastical nature of fantasy worlds should allow their creators free reign over the design of that world and the characters, and 2 out of 39 (0 out of about 18 if we're counting the female characters) romanceable black characters is a pretty bad return.

I don't want to sound like I'm having a rant or that I've got some kind of agenda (I'm quite surprised at myself for having looked into the numbers), but this does slightly stick in my throat. I suppose I think it's a shame more than anything.

 

Considering said games had multiple 'races' (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Qunari, Turian, Quarian, Salarian, Wookiee, Rodian, Twi'lek etc... ), I find it surprising someone would bring up the 'colour of skin' argument. Actually no I don't. This is the Bioware forums where nothing should surprise me anymore.

[Jaison1986]

you cant make that comparison because you have not been exploited.  

 

You can say that again. I'm south american, I get exploited by my goverment every day. And my point wasn't even that. My point is that people today shouldn't recieve unfair treatment because of mistakes done in the past that they had no control over.

[vutha_ixen]

Jesus. hetero-males, ******-females and -males, let me explain something: You are not getting less just because someone else is getting more. According to the core romances, we all got the same. With extra development time, and in accord with character/story arcs, hetero-females got more choices. They got bonus content. You did not have content stripped away. I mean, I can understand being upset with who your choices are. (When I thought it was going to be Viv and Cass I was very unimpressed with the female options being bland and uninteresting in my opinion. Luckily Josephine gives me hope.) But to get so upset over others getting bonus content is just silly.

 

I have tried the perspective argument. It didn't take. I definitely agree though.

[Natarsi]

I think you should hold your judgment until it becomes known how those advisor romances work in action. Since there are valid reasons to suspect it won't be as good experience as during companion romances.

Doesn't the same count for you?

Shouldn't you 'hold your judgement' until you've played one of these 'advisor romances' and compared it to one of the 'core romances'?

 

And might I ask what those 'valid reasons' other than some suspicion are? Please with references to where any of the developers said something.

 

Kelly was a side Romance in ME - I think it was done good, but could have been better.
Samara Traynor & Steve Cortez felt like side-romances to me as well - but were well worked out.

If the advisor and possible additional romances we do not yet know about - and hopefully won't know about unless we run into them during the game - are anything like those, I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

 

Also I'm getting kind of tired of 'shouldn't they have used the time to make the core romances better?'.

Honestly? I don't think much if anything was changed about the 'core' romances. They were planned the way they were planned and they were FINISHED planned.
 

I'm not gonna claim 'all the romanceable characters are perfect they way they are - as friends and as romances', because I'm certain there are some things I like and some things I do not. BUT! The point is: No one of us here has played it. You make a judgement of a game you only know bits about.

Also, if the past games of DA or ME were all sooooooooooooooooooooo horrible that you are a 'branded child' and have 'all these fears of how horrible' it can turn out... Why are you even contemplating DA:I?

I'm serious here. If a company disappointed me THIS much as some are suggesting... I'd turn my back on it. And I certainly would not pre-order the game. I'd wait until it was done, read reviews and depending on those I'd go for it or not. Or maybe even wait until it drops below 20 $ if I'm still somewhat tempted but fear the disappointment.

 

 

And now something totally personally biased:
If you are only going for this game because of romances... You do not deserve this game.
If you are so afraid that the romances are crap and this is essential to you as a player or you are dissatisfied with the choices given: Please cancel your pre-order and don't buy this game. Ever. You'll save yourself the disappointment.
Especially since you have already decided which character is 'good' and which character is 'bad' and you'll go into the game so biased that you'll jump at any chance that will make you go "HAH! I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT!"

You are stressing out over a game not released in the near time and ruining the game for yourself and probably aren't even aware of it.

[vutha_ixen]

You can say that again. I'm south american, I get exploited by my goverment every day. And my point wasn't even that. My point is that people today shouldn't recieve unfair treatment because of mistakes done in the past that they had no control over.

 

This feels like a bomb waiting to go off regarding political beliefs from every major racial incident ranging from recent to ancient events. Please heed Just.someone2's advice and call it quits on the arguing.

[costalren28]

I think the problem is that some of your posts (like this one) make a lot of assumptions.

 

The fact that Bioware worked hard to make sure that people actually had options (as opposed to being forever alone or choosing the one option slated for you) is admirable because they could have just stayed with the industry status quo and not included anything but straight male romances.

 

For myself at least, I've never been mad at bioware, merely puzzled, BUT I am a bit ticked off at gamers attitute towards the reactions. Look, the reason why Bioware have given straight females more options, is because of female gamers complaning, as well as bringing up the issue in general about the lack of options geared towards women. It's all in the media. And I do agree with that, and it's a fact too.

 

Nearly all games are male protag only regardless of genre, with only a smaller number allowing you to PLAY as a main female protag (sole lead, no sharing of spotlight). Thus I, as a woman, participate as well in such championing of issues. So, knowing how it is like, I don't understand why is there no emphathy shown towards those who are unhappy about the romances now, and worse, trying to silence them. As long as they aren't rude, or directly attacking someone, what's the problem? If one doesn't like a post, maybe scroll past it?

 

I can understand how it feels. In RPGS, I only play as a female protag, and have a bigger preference towards women LI. This combination often means less than everybody else. So, if things had been different, and my options majorly decimated, I know I'd have been bummed. A bit more emphathy doesn't hurt, I feel.

[Pierce Miller]

For myself at least, I've never been mad at bioware, merely puzzled, BUT I am a bit ticked off at gamers attitute towards the reactions. Look, the reason why Bioware have given straight females more options, is because of female gamers complaning, as well as bringing up the issue in general about the lack of options geared towards women. It's all in the media. And I do agree with that, and it's a fact too.

 

Nearly all games are male protag only regardless of genre, with only a smaller number allowing you to PLAY as a main female protag (sole lead, no sharing of spotlight). Thus I, as a woman, participate as well in such championing of issues. So, knowing how it is like, I don't understand why is there no emphathy shown towards those who are unhappy about the romances now, and worse, trying to silence them. As long as they aren't rude, or directly attacking someone, what's the problem? If one doesn't like a post, maybe scroll past it?

 

I can understand how it feels. In RPGS, I only play as a female protag, and have a bigger preference towards women LI. This combination often means less than everybody else. So, if things had been different, and my options majorly decimated, I know I'd have been bummed. A bit more emphathy doesn't hurt, I feel.

True, that should apply to everyone though.

[just.somebody2]

Well, that magical... fisting thing he does is certainly a plus!   sarcasm over

 

Spoiler

My Games, I build my mages to be invincible - DA:O/Awakenings, both my mages were nearly lvl 34-35, and had 800+ health. And were Arcane Warriors. XD

DA2, It was much the same thing. Except you go Spirit Healer to get the +10 to constitution, and pick up some of the Blood Magic attacks.

As for the Fade mission, I take people who won't turn on you, on purpose. Anders (who turns into Justice), Varric, Aveline (If friend/rival high enough), and Sebastian (I had the Pre-order copy)

Sten would be a *tough* Fight, my Arishok fight took nearly 5-10 minutes on Hard/Nightmare, using my Dog XD

Thedas probably has an International bank, funded by Silvers for everytime something crappy happens to someone. Like a swear jar.

And you're right about Bethany, but often times my Hawke was Diplomatic/Paragon and Snarky with her. And she was just like "Oh, right - Everything's sunshine and lolipops, nothing is wrong at *all*." and it just rubbed me wrong. (Maybe because I've got a sister that is like that 24/7 with no logical reason to be)

Become an aggressive saver - I think I've got like 15-20 saves per game. All generally done after each fight (Playing on Nightmare invites disaster), and before conversations. Sometimes It's registered I didn't move enough and I pick the wrong option. Those moments suuuuuuck.

Did you see his design for the MMORPG thing (I think that's what it was)? I never played it but I saw some pics.

 

Spoiler

I make my mages kinda squishy but insanely powerful and with a lot of mana to draw from. I usually need a tank with me though.

 

I actually do the opposite and take people who are likely to turn on me to get the XP and the extra scenes (and by extension, Rivalry or Friendship points).

 

Oh man squishy mage against Arishok with Dog was constituted of a lot of running and occasional quick spells. Benny Hill song on the background.

 

I guess Bethy copes however she can.

 

I'll probably had hundreds of frikin saves in DAI.

Always save before talking to LI if nothing else.

[TK514]

 

Ray561, on 04 Sept 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

I believe that both you and Ray are right. This is its own seperate thing, but it would be like the top rated sports team complaining that they lost 1 out of 10 games. The sheer numbers kinda detract from the argument.

 

 

The important difference being that top rated sports teams aren't purchasing their seasons at retail.

 

Quantity is literally the only part of these options that the writers have absolute objective control over.  They can't make every romance of equal quality, because that's a subjective valuation.  But they can, every time, offer equal numbers.  That they don't is a choice.  All the talk about 'characters have to make sense and each one has to be internally consistent and blah blah' is just a poor excuse.  The writers are omnipotent when it comes to the characters and story.  The characters don't exist before the writers create them, and have no traits that the writers do not consciously decide to give them.  They made a conscious decision to leave one segment of their customer base with fewer options, and I disagree with it now just as I have disagreed with it in the past.

[vutha_ixen]

For myself at least, I've never been mad at bioware, merely puzzled, BUT I am a bit ticked off at gamers attitute towards the reactions. Look, the reason why Bioware have given straight females more options, is because of female gamers complaning, as well as bringing up the issue in general about the lack of options geared towards women. It's all in the media. And I do agree with that, and it's a fact too.

 

Nearly all games are male protag only regardless of genre, with only a smaller number allowing you to PLAY as a main female protag (sole lead, no sharing of spotlight). Thus I, as a woman, participate as well in such championing of issues. So, knowing how it is like, I don't understand why is there no emphathy shown towards those who are unhappy about the romances now, and worse, trying to silence them. As long as they aren't rude, or directly attacking someone, what's the problem? If one doesn't like a post, maybe scroll past it?

 

I can understand how it feels. In RPGS, I only play as a female protag, and have a bigger preference towards women LI. This combination often means less than everybody else. So, if things had been different, and my options majorly decimated, I know I'd have been bummed. A bit more emphathy doesn't hurt, I feel.

 

Urge to argue returning... must think of happy place... Sera's snort laugh, Viv and Dorian party banter, Cass in a dress. Okay all good.

[Ray561]

You can say that again. I'm south american, I get exploited by my goverment every day. And my point wasn't even that. My point is that people today shouldn't recieve unfair treatment because of mistakes done in the past that they had no control over.

I meant the Game it's self giving you less option for romance is not exploitation and so it can not be compared to it.

there not treating you unfairly some people got bonus content (content that you have access to.).

 

You can be Disappointed and express but don't act like bio-wear has banner on there website saying   " screwing over straight male gamer's since 2014." while at the same time taking stuff away from you.

[Saberchic]

Not sure about that "status quo" considering that some companies are way ahead of Bioware right now. Such Last of Us is bigger and more casual game than DAI, yet they weren't afraid to make one of protagonists gay and even dedicate the part of the game to her teenage romance.

One game does not erase the entire past of the video game industry. Tons of games were and are still being made for straight male gamers. I'm not sure how one can not have seen or noticed this. However, this is not the thread to debate that.

 

Every main sexual orientation (straight/gay/bi) has 2 options (some a few more), and while some people are upset that they did not get their desired options, I am seeing quite a few people making a lot of assumptions about a game they have not played and acting like their opinion is fact. It does not help their case. If they are upset and want to complain about not getting character X, then fine. But if they are trying to convince others that they are getting shafted while spouting off inaccuracies, then they should not expected to be taken seriously.

[vutha_ixen]

Did you see his design for the MMORPG thing (I think that's what it was)? I never played it but I saw some pics.

 

Spoiler

I make my mages kinda squishy but insanely powerful and with a lot of mana to draw from. I usually need a tank with me though.

 

I actually do the opposite and take people who are likely to turn on me to get the XP and the extra scenes (and by extension, Rivalry or Friendship points).

 

Oh man squishy mage against Arishok with Dog was constituted of a lot of running and occasional quick spells. Benny Hill song on the background.

 

I guess Bethy copes however she can.

 

I'll probably had hundreds of frikin saves in DAI.

Always save before talking to LI if nothing else.

Glass cannons are fun to play. I did my fair share of kiting the Arishok too ! I am on the same boat with the saves. Every turn that looks like a decision might be there gets a save of its own. Also playing on nightmare makes you save after almost every battle...

[TheTurtle]

Considering said games had multiple 'races' (Human, Elf, Dwarf, Qunari, Turian, Quarian, Salarian, Wookiee, Rodian, Twi'lek etc... ), I find it surprising someone would bring up the 'colour of skin' argument. Actually no I don't. This is the Bioware forums where nothing should surprise me anymore.

Having a bunch of fictional races doesn't make up for the lack of diversity when it comes to actual races. Am I supposed to feel like I'm being represented by a group blue aliens cause I don't.

[vutha_ixen]

With that I'm done arguing with you because you will never see past your own anger.

 

You where right. The more we say the more we fan the fires of hatred. We need to let them cool off and maybe revisit the topic when everyone has a cool head. As it is we are priests and ahtiests arguing over god (imagine yourself on your prefered side). There is no winner and everyone is offended.

[Angloassassin]

Did you see his design for the MMORPG thing (I think that's what it was)? I never played it but I saw some pics.

 

Spoiler

I make my mages kinda squishy but insanely powerful and with a lot of mana to draw from. I usually need a tank with me though.

 

I actually do the opposite and take people who are likely to turn on me to get the XP and the extra scenes (and by extension, Rivalry or Friendship points).

 

Oh man squishy mage against Arishok with Dog was constituted of a lot of running and occasional quick spells. Benny Hill song on the background.

 

I guess Bethy copes however she can.

 

I'll probably had hundreds of frikin saves in DAI.

Always save before talking to LI if nothing else.

 

I've seen a lot of his concept art - and while I love the appearance he'd got in the game, I liked a lot of it more. Then again,  it's not all that easy for those things to happen.

 

Spoiler

I've got a bad problem with building almost all my characters the same way. Even my Carta Dwarf I made a 2-handed, Heavy Plate Templar, because I knew I'd need the boost.

It's not that I don't like leaving my comfort zone gameplay wise - But I feel as if the other options just weren't as viable.

I preferred to use a more classy song for those moments. "The Song that Never Ends" by Lambchop. Because, Claaaassy.

I'm probably going to have to get external hard drives for the game, Especially if I plan on playing at a higher difficulty. And making duplicate saves in case of corruption.

[LiketheRiver]

Bummed no Vivienne or Leliana those were the two I was hoping for. Oh well they will be fun to still interact with. Cassandra or Josephine is the choice now. Leaning towards Josephine since she is closest to what Leliana would be. 

[vutha_ixen]

I've seen a lot of his concept art - and while I love the appearance he'd got in the game, I liked a lot of it more. Then again,  it's not all that easy for those things to happen.

 

Spoiler

I've got a bad problem with building almost all my characters the same way. Even my Carta Dwarf I made a 2-handed, Heavy Plate Templar, because I knew I'd need the boost.

It's not that I don't like leaving my comfort zone gameplay wise - But I feel as if the other options just weren't as viable.

I preferred to use a more classy song for those moments. "The Song that Never Ends" by Lambchop. Because, Claaaassy.

I'm probably going to have to get external hard drives for the game, Especially if I plan on playing at a higher difficulty. And making duplicate saves in case of corruption.

Where are you guys finding all this MMORPG stuff? I would love to check it out! (If I'm interrupting, plz let me know and I will butt out.)

Spoiler

I had that problem for a while, but give it a quick try and the thrill of winning with a slightly less viable build brings extra excitement to every encounter.

[vutha_ixen]

Bummed no Vivienne or Leliana those were the two I was hoping for. Oh well they will be fun to still interact with. Cassandra or Josephine is the choice now. Leaning towards Josephine since she is closest to what Leliana would be. 

Being a diplomat I feel like every one of her conversations will hold extra meaning or an ulterior motive. I look forward to her clever word play!

[lecho_himself]

For me, to be honest, I'm tired of all this romance blabbing. Yes, they are important element of background and can really add to a game, BUT for me it's pretty wrong to speak of Inquisition only because of romance options. This is the part of the game that has been hyped the most and I cant find a reason for that as we are speaking about a game that has an open world, interesting backstory and probably tons of gameplay to offer.

Yes, I would like to have an opportunity to romance Sera because I like cute elven girls and both Cassandra and Josephine seem unatrractive and a little bit meh for me. But if I'm going to play the game without having a romance for my straight male Inquisitor then it's perfectly okay for me as long as I wont have to avoid gay advances from male part of my team game long, like I had with both Cortez and Anders in ME3 and DA2.

[Jaison1986]

I said my piece, so you folk don't need to worry about hearing me again. I'm disappoint of how it ended and I think I'm done with the Bioware romances. I was already disappointed in the past, but this just feels like the icing in the cake. I will still play their games, but their romance content just doesn't interest me anymore.

[Angloassassin]

Where are you guys finding all this MMORPG stuff? I would love to check it out! (If I'm interrupting, plz let me know and I will butt out.)

Spoiler

I had that problem for a while, but give it a quick try and the thrill of winning with a slightly less viable build brings extra excitement to every encounter.

 

You're not butting in - we kinda got to talking about the actual topic while everyone was arguing, and we're just sorta trying to keep the topic on track. Things that pertain to DA:O/DA2, and will transfer into DA:I. 

 

Spoiler

My patience lasts forever, but I remember on Nightmare with my Dwarf Templar, I got the broodmother to around 10%, and it was just Shale and I left, with Shale using Stone Aura.

If I'd have died, I'd have given up for a bit in my rage XD.