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[HiroVoid]

Of course, women have always been present in games but have been growing steadily for years.

I wrote an essay for college on how Final Fantasy changed the face of gaming for women.

 

I didn't get a good grade.

JRPGs in general as far as I can tell have been a pretty popular genre for women as far as I can tell at least as far as series like 'Tales of...' and others go.  I also agree that its important to be able to appeal to women (unless you're specifically wanting to make a game to appeal to one demographic) since its 50% of the population and still a large amount of gamers.

[Iakus]

The thing for me is not Vivienne being a LI its the Fact as a Hetero Male gamer that enjoys taking his LI with him everywhere we have one option Cassandra because Scribbles will remain in Skyhold and not journey with us.Gay female players are in the same boat they have only Sera because Scribbles once again remains in Skyhold.All in all Vivienne "Bi" would have solved both with 2 LIs that could accompany you on your journeys. 

 

Dont get me wrong I am happy female gamers finally getting a better selection but in all honesty the unbalance regarding the LIs is disconcerning.And I am sure there will be a story reason for Vivienne not being an option but damn B-Ware couldnt you at least have given two Companion options for everyone.

Whehter it's bad or not depends entirely on how it is handled.  We have very little experience to draw on with how a "stay at home" LI would be like. 

 

*wonders if such romances would begin with "Honey, I'm home!" whenever the Inquisitor returns*

 

Also recall that very little romance content have ever been shown on the road.  In the past it's almost exclusively been back at base:  Party camp, the Normandy, Hawke's estate, etc.  The most that would be missed is likely the banters, and what Ive given to understand, the advisors (all three of them) have loads of it back at Skyhold.

[jtav]

And, wright, since we shared a romance in ME3, Miranda on the squad wouldn't have helped. It didn't help Ash.

[Willowhugger]

Ellie from the Last of Us being a lesbian and not bisexual was a great revelation. It avoided all of the fictional waife business which haunts this industry perhaps a little too much. She's a thoroughly nonsexualized character who has a sexual leaning toward women which is revealed over the course of gameplay in a manner which is appropriate and heart-rending.

 

Joel wouldn't care.

Neither should we.

[Kuse]

I read the article over at RPG.net (reposted there) on the subject but is it so hard to believe?

 

It's not hard to believe that women are becoming more gamer prone than in years past (I'd actually like to know what caused this drift). Even if the gap is closer than in  years past it doesn't account for the reason why Bioware is choosing to appeal to other themes, such as those of the gay nature. Perhaps I am ultra conservative in this respect but showcasing certain themes in games just for the sake of doing so doesn't make much sense to me, it feels forced due to either social or cultural pressure to change. The result is that those of traditional viewpoints are being left behind and somehow becoming a minority (at least it feels that way) and the gay cultural is now being put on a pedestal as the next best thing since sliced bread.

[Willowhugger]

Whehter it's bad or not depends entirely on how it is handled.  We have very little experience to draw on with how a "stay at home" LI would be like.

Samantha Traynor and Cortez.

I agree, though.

[mindoirs]

I've seen discussions about that Rhianna's Pratchett remark about Lara's possible homosexuality, and of course straight women were throwing accusations that it's pandering to men, and straight men didn't want to hear anything that could deny the status of Lara as their fictional wife. The same repeated during talks about Ellie in The Last of US.
 
Female homosexuality is less negatively received only in a sense that it's not taken seriously - that's also why in the media most of the time lesbian characters end up sleeping with men. Interestingly, despite this popular opinion that the public tolerates lesbian more than gay men, as annual GLAAD reports show, gay men make majority of all LGBT representation in Hollywood.

Agreed. Lesbians tend to be sexualized in society as something for straight males to enjoy. But when it comes to acknowledging and respecting a lesbian relationship, many don't and choose not to take them seriously, going as far as treating it as something that can be reversed if they meet an attractive guy. And when a gay man is shown on TV having intimacy with a woman, it's pictured as disgusting and tragic for him.

Neither should deal with that whole "reversal" or "cure" thing. Both genders should be respected for being lesbian/gay/any sexuality for that matter.

[Fishy]

I was  surprised when I saw the last two . I was expecting Cullen and Vivienne or a female character not introduced ( I was kind of hoping for a woman Qunari ) .. Was kind of surprised to see it was two man ( My guess is that Solas will be a very unpopular pick).

 

I was planning to romance Cassandra in my first playthrough anyway with a Qunari mage or warrior . So I guess my second playthrough..... hummm

 

Still no Dwarf.

No female Qunari

Solas

 

 

 

[just.somebody2]

Oh man I've only been gone for a lil' bit, how did we descend into stupid again?

[Allan Schumacher]

Female homosexuality is less negatively received only in a sense that it's not taken seriously - that's also why in the media most of the time lesbian characters end up sleeping with men. Interestingly, despite this popular opinion that the public tolerates lesbian more than gay men, as annual GLAAD reports show, gay men make majority of all LGBT representation in Hollywood.

 

Thanks for sharing this as it's a perspective I'm less familiar with.

[sandalisthemaker]

I've seen discussions about that Rhianna's Pratchett remark about Lara's possible homosexuality, and of course straight women were throwing accusations that it's pandering to men, and straight men didn't want to hear anything that could deny the status of Lara as their fictional wife. The same repeated during talks about Ellie in The Last of US.

 

Female homosexuality is less negatively received only in a sense that it's not taken seriously - that's also why in the media most of the time lesbian characters end up sleeping with men. Interestingly, despite this popular opinion that the public tolerates lesbian more than gay men, as annual GLAAD reports show, gay men make majority of all LGBT representation in Hollywood.

 

I agree with you, however, I believe that male homosexuality generally receives a more immediate negative knee-jerk reaction than female homosexuality.  But I believe that it has to do with the fact that female homosexuality in media is often presented with the goal of straight male titillation, and that there is obviously no way to present male homosexuality in such a manner.

[Yinello]

Solas might be most unpopular because he's so gated.

 

I think Josephine will be very popular. Kind pretty bi women always do well with the crowd, just like Leliana.

[wright1978]

@wright1978: You have the right to be skeptical. I just think that if the devs feel like they reach the limit of what they can do with the core six without it being damaging, then why shouldn't they go to two people that CAN be romanceable? If it can add to them more, then I say go for it. Especially if it fits with their backstory and character in the story.

 

I'd still take issue with the degree of the skew the additions result in. Also in the highly unlikely scenario where existing romances are bursting at the seams with content as you suppose, then surely that resource could be better spent elsewhere.

[Maugrim]

I might be mistaken with Tomb Raider (it's been a while since I played it) unfortunately, based on some other comments.

 

I do agree with you that female homosexuality is seen as more acceptable.

 

True but only in the sense that is serves the sexual interest of the stereotypical straight male audience* and that females are lesser than males so who cares when they drink some wine and have pillow fights when the menfolk aren't around.  Don't get me wrong I almost appreciate their interest because it's probably the only reason I ever got options in the first place, but until recently lesbian romances were not made for lesbian or bisexual women and still often aren't.

 

That said I found Lara's potential interest in women quiet interesting and well done and hope they elaborate and follow up on that idea.

 

*Standard disclaimer that the stereotypical audience does not include all men.

[Willowhugger]

Agreed. Lesbians tend to be sexualized in society as something for straight males to enjoy. But when it comes to acknowledging and respecting a lesbian relationship, many don't and choose not to take them seriously, going as far as treating it as something that can be reversed if they meet an attractive guy. And when a gay man is shown on TV having intimacy with a woman, it's pictured as disgusting and tragic for him.

Neither should deal with that whole "reversal" or "cure" thing. Both genders should be respected for being lesbian/gay/any sexuality for that matter.

Perhaps the biggest argument for purely lesbian and homosexual male characters there.

Dorian will never like a FemQuisitor.

Sera will never like MaleQuisitor.

I thought it was weird that the Samantha Traynor mission in ME3 seemed to imply my Shepard didn't hear, "I'm a lesbian" the first time they talked. It got kind of creepy with the options which kept popping up during our chess game which said, more or less, "Try to **** her."

When, yeah, I got she's gay. Really!

Ditto when she's having sex with herself in my hot tub. Which is VERY RUDE thank you!

[TheJediSaint]

Solas might be most unpopular because he's so gated.

 

I think Josephine will be very popular. Kind pretty bi women always do well with the crowd, just like Leliana.

And she's hot.  Did I mention she's hot?  Because she's totally hot.

[Allan Schumacher]

True but only in the sense that is serves the sexual interest of the stereotypical straight male audience* and that females are lesser than males so who cares when they drink some wine and have pillow fights when the menfolk aren't around.  Don't get me wrong I almost appreciate their interest because it's probably the only reason I ever got options in the first place, but until recently lesbian romances were not made for lesbian or bisexual women and sitll often aren't.

 

*Standard disclaimer that the stereotypical audience does not include all men.

 

I think this is a fair critique and I don't disagree with it.

[Yinello]

And she's hot.  Did I mention she's hot?  Because she's totally hot.

 

Like a thousand burning suns! *dies*

[Willowhugger]

True but only in the sense that is serves the sexual interest of the stereotypical straight male audience* and that females are lesser than males so who cares when they drink some wine and have pillow fights when the menfolk aren't around.  Don't get me wrong I almost appreciate their interest because it's probably the only reason I ever got options in the first place, but until recently lesbian romances were not made for lesbian or bisexual women and still often aren't.

 

Wait, Leliana isn't having pillow fights with Josephine and Cassandra back at Inquisitor Palace? With wine?

Damnit!

Another fantasy ruined!

[mindoirs]

It's not hard to believe that women are becoming more gamer prone than in years past (I'd actually like to know what caused this drift). Even if the gap is closer than in years past it doesn't account for the reason why Bioware is choosing to appeal to other themes, such as those of the gay nature. Perhaps I am ultra conservative in this respect but showcasing certain themes in games just for the sake of doing so doesn't make much sense to me, it feels forced due to either social or cultural pressure to change. The result is that those of traditional viewpoints are being left behind and somehow becoming a minority (at least it feels that way) and the gay cultural is now being put on a pedestal as the next best thing since sliced bread.

Bioware is chooosing to represent, not appeal.

Also as for your last sentence...really? This is one AAA game out of the many out there.

Bioware isn't doing it for the sake of doing it. They are doing it to represent and show real people. Real people are diverse; they are of different races and sexualities. I hope that you can see this because the experience of playing the game would be much better, and it's important to learn for the world outside of the one in this video game. If not, you will have a very hard time in the world.

[90s Luke]

Ultimately (despite my support for Vivienne as a love interest), one romance option (Cassandra) would have been more than enough for me.

 

Seriously guys (speaking to my fellow straight male gamers here), if you can't appreciate Cassandra as a character in order to romance her, then that's your loss.

 

You still have the option of romancing Josephine, or playing a female character and romancing someone else (like Sera    ).

[sandalisthemaker]

It's not hard to believe that women are becoming more gamer prone than in years past (I'd actually like to know what caused this drift). Even if the gap is closer than in  years past it doesn't account for the reason why Bioware is choosing to appeal to other themes, such as those of the gay nature. Perhaps I am ultra conservative in this respect but showcasing certain themes in games just for the sake of doing so doesn't make much sense to me, it feels forced due to either social or cultural pressure to change. The result is that those of traditional viewpoints are being left behind and somehow becoming a minority (at least it feels that way) and the gay cultural is now being put on a pedestal as the next best thing since sliced bread.

 

Urgh.

 

I am trying to be nicer on the forums, so I will just bite my tongue and  hope that Allan addresses you.

[wright1978]

And, wright, since we shared a romance in ME3, Miranda on the squad wouldn't have helped. It didn't help Ash.

 

I think it would have helped me somewhat, despite other shortcomings.

[Talagen]

Oh man I've only been gone for a lil' bit, how did we descend into stupid again?

 

 

Because you left!!!  I blame you for all this mess!!!

[LPPrince]

Reading this thread before, I noticed people saying that they only have two options or three as compared to someone else's four, five, or even six.

 

The way I see it, everyone's got eight options from what I can tell. We just have to play differently to access some of them.

 

I'm not gonna take these romances for granted given most games don't offer a choice to begin with.

 

Now that the characters' preferences in romantic interests have been revealed, they all feel more unique to me, more like actual people in a diverse team, and I dig it.

 

I'm likely only going to romance one or two companions over the course of my playthroughs, I'm not sure. We'll see. But its cool that there's incentive to play differently this time. Maybe I'll go out of my comfort zone to try all of their romance paths as I did with Dragon Age:Origins.

 

Cheers for the restrictions, Bioware. I hope characters we accompany are treated more like this in future titles.