3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

You know, this explanation of "privilege" completely baffles me. Outside of the internet, I've never heard anyone use it in any context even remotely similar to what you wrote here.

 

Practically all my life, privilege meant this instead:

 

A right or special exception, granted to a single person or a small number of people by a higher authority.

 

From Latin: privilegium,  consisting of 

privus - single, special

lex, legis - the law

 

Originally, the word did not even make a difference between a right and a duty. If Claudius Minimax was ordered to clean the collosseum's latrines each Saturday night, that was in fact a privilege.

 

How the heck did it get from there - the "privus" part makes it kinda clear that it cannot refer to a large number of people, let alone a majority - to what you wrote? Arbitrary redefinition? Internet phenomenon?

 

I'm not trying to troll, I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

With the context of social aspects, the term privilege consistently means the invisible advantages that people, often obliviously, get through being associated with a particular group.

 

To take a dictionary definition: http://dictionary.re...rowse/privilege 6 is probably the strongest fit.

 

In my experience, many also get defensive because they seem to think that the association is exclusively financial (being born into privilege conveying a sense of wealth/inheritance).  But, for example, one of the common aspects of straight privilege is that I can, in general, openly speak about the person I love and very likely not receive any sort of ridicule or judgment for it.  A gay person often does not have that privilege.

 

 

I think others have stated it, but the academic usage in this context is reasonably common.

[suliabryon]

You don't say?  A disconnect between academic research and everyday life?  No!  I refuse to accept it! 

 

That being said, you have made me sad that I still have 1 1/2 years to go before I finish this damned degree.  Then, it's DR daveliam to everyone on this forum!

 

Ha ha! Right? I know the feeling. I finished my Masters a few months ago, and I couldn't be happier to be done with school. By the time you are finished, you will have earned that DR title.

[Willowhugger]

Just adding to the straight male gamers who are of the complete opposite mind regarding Cassandra.

 

Stupid and needless generalization. 

 

The Demi Moore/Antje Trau look is hardly unappealing. :-)

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I don't know what the fuss is about. I have 7 choices.

 

"ZOMG He didn't include Dorian! He's SOOOOOOO closed minded!!!1!"

 

 

 

 

 

Please keep posting here.  We need more level headed and rational posters. 

 

 

My understanding is that it's a term from academics, specifically social science research.  The first scholar that I heard using it was Peggy McIntosh, who I think spoke of white privilege in the late 1980's.  Since then, it's pretty common in post-modernist research circles.

 

I find this term a bit.. I don;t know. I mean, it only applies in majority white countries, as if those are the only ones that matter. Go to China and see how much your while privilege gets you.

 

 

It's more like 'majority privilege' really.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It's more like 'majority privilege' really.

White privilege in western countries is a form of majority privilege. Male privilege is a mostly universal form of privilege and so is heterosexual privilege. There are just different forms of majority privilege that occur in different populations, some more universal than others. Since Bioware is a company in the western world that largely markets to the west, it makes sense that their games tend to reflect the brand of majority privilege that exists in the west.   

[daveliam]

I find this term a bit.. I don;t know. I mean, it only applies in majority white countries, as if those are the only ones that matter. Go to China and see how much your while privilege gets you.

 

 

It's more like 'majority privilege' really.

 

Yeah, that's kind of the point.  "White privilege" only works if whites are the majority.  It's not meant to be a global phenomenon.  It's meant to be applied differently in different contexts.  It's not always being used by laypeople in the appropriate ways.

 

ETA:  Morte's description above might be better than mine!

[Willowhugger]

Yeah this is the worst companions and romance options in DA series, and all stuff about realistic and equality is a total crap like as we are not related to the Orlais Chantry..if people would know about this mounths ago they can do petition and now our only hope is for story DLC  when we as i hope would have new companions

 

if females have mostly all exept dwarf Li, for all who would play as males non-humans, mages Inquisitors this is a slap on their faces...they do not have romaces and companions who are not pro Orlais, Orlais Chantry, Templars or some exiled criminals...even mage as Vivienne who as we know is not a romance option is a loyalist pro Oralis empire and pro Chatry Circle

 

most of our party is pro Oralis/Chantry and Tempalars and devs even make Lelianna her old girlfriend Josephine and butcher Cullen with Cassandra more valuable in our Inquisition and not replaceble/executable as all others no matter what...those advisors is a bullshit and they put bastards to be our generals...putting Lelianna and Cullen was a very, very bad solution for many reasons, more bad if they allow us to romance companions of previous heroes like Morrigan, Merril and others

 

many do not like that despite that we have 2 kingdoms and many factions who we must choose most of our companions from those faction who are emenies of many players or some who are not connected to anything...we do not have any companion, advisors and romances who represent dalish, Orzammar/Kal-Sharok dwarves, "barbarians", rebelion mages, Nevarrans, Tevinters(not some criminal exile with shame like Dorian who is noone and represent a betrayal of Venatory fanatics-old gods worshipers), Tal Vashots(Bull is just another Qunari spy)...those chars who represent them was put on a sh*t multiplayer

 

DAO-Da2 was much, much better in this things..all of our companions and li's was different,  was a representation of some group and have their own desires

 

DAI is the first game of Bioware then many want to get rid and even execute of mostly all companions and especially advisors what we have and cantrid of them no matter what we would do and how we feel about them.

 

Companions and Li's of DAI does not equal in terms of genders, races and representation of faction/alliances

 

I think it's important to remember the Templar-Mage War is not the actual focus of the game. There's also the fact the Templars and Mages were seeking peace.

I think fans who expect it to be the focus of the game are going to be confused when a lot of both factions are talking about how they want the war to end.

 

It's not some sort of war of extermination.

[Treavor647]

I dont know what the major problem is.  Its not like the modders are not going to have a field day and customize choices and looks of the companions like they did in the previous dragon age games.   

 

BTW Thanks Bioware for giving everyone a minimum of 2 or more choices in a huge AAA game.  As a gay male i am happy with my choices.  The two others i wanted, blackwall and varric are not open to my mail inq. Varric just seems to be too awesome to be tied down by one toon and I can roll a Female Inq (which i had plan to anyway) and romance blackwall.

[GalacticDonuts]

Wow, you know what? Both women whom I had hoped to romance in this game are unavailable. Sera is only into women and Vivienne isn't an option, it would seem that I have made poor choices this time around.

[Allan Schumacher]

Wow, you know what? Both women whom I had hoped to romance in this game are unavailable. Sera is only into women and Vivienne isn't an option, it would seem that I have made poor choices this time around.

 

Hopefully once in game it'll either not be a big issue, or someone you previously wrote off actually is a good fit!

[JAZZ_LEG3ND]

The Demi Moore/Antje Trau look is hardly unappealing. :-)

Antje Traue

[Hazegurl]

...Okay, so there are 5 male LIs but only 3 female LIs, and of those 3 only two of them are romanceable by female Inquisitors? That's....kind of lousy, honestly. I mean, I'm still excited for the game and I appreciate all of the work that goes into it, but I'm really disappointed that, after all of the hype about how many LIs are in this game, there are still only 2 or 3 that appeal to me, so not any more than usual really.

I feel ya. I got only one strictly gay LI for my male inquisitor and that moustache gotta go. At least I got the Iron Bull. I'm gonna have to roll a female just to get my hooks into Blackwall and Cullen.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

White privilege in western countries is a form of majority privilege. Male privilege is a mostly universal form of privilege and so is heterosexual privilege. There are just different forms of majority privilege that occur in different populations, some more universal than others. Since Bioware is a company in the western world that largely markets to the west, it makes sense that their games tend to reflect the brand of majority privilege that exists in the west.   

 

 

True

 

I was impressed at how well the new engine could create Vivienne. I'm looking forward to seeing how well it does with other races.I want my Chinquisitor! Previous games we had Caucasian person, Caucasian person with slightly browner skin and Caucasian person with dark skin.

 

Back  on topic, before Alan yells at me (heh)

 

back on topic, as a privileged, entitled white Canadian male, I have 1 'strictly straight' female romance option. Rather than frothing at the mouth at that, I'm going to be rolling more female characters than males. I suppose.

[shedevil3001]

i'll be happy to roll out any quizzie as long as i can romance cullen with 1 it's all good, mind first i'll have to not die every 5 minutes, long enough to get to the romance stuff

[daveliam]

back on topic, as a privileged, entitled white Canadian male, I have 1 'strictly straight' female romance option. Rather than frothing at the mouth at that, I'm going to be rolling more female characters than males. I suppose.

 

May I ask a question?  You seem to have differentiated between Cassandra and Josephine based on their sexuality, even though both are interested in romancing straight males.  Are you not interested in romancing Josephine because of her bisexuality?  And, if so, why is that? 

 

I recognize that this question might open a giant can of worms, so I'd also be happy to take it to PM, if you want.  I'm curious as to your rationale.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

Wouldn't that depend on why you don't like the choice? Some don't like the idea of Dorian because they feel he is flamboyant and stereotypical. They resisted the very notion of him being a gay LI on the grounds that many were predicting he would be based on how he looked. By the counterpoint there are plenty of gay men that are also "Woohoo!" to him being a gay love interest.

I dunno if this is supposed to be a negative or positive comment, but here goes. I freely admit Dorian seems a little worrying, and I also freely admit it has to do with lack of knowledge and the fact I have big triggers. You see, it's hard to imagine representation outside of that stereotype because it's so damn rare to begin with. Gay men in media seem to ALWAYS be overly flamboyant (even if not pushed to comedic levels), and as a gay man who is neither flamboyant, nor fitting any other stereotype, this bothers me (note this is all opinionated) because not only does the shock with not being stereotypical lead people to believe I am not gay, but even worse, it seems that people believe I am 'hiding' the part of me (non-existent), that represents this stereotype. I am not a 'gay best friend', nor do I wish to be a 'gay best friend'. So at the first mention of 'all the sass', I am the first to admit I do get terrified. If Dorian is nothing like that, well I'm glad to be wrong, and always will be. (The 'handsome leather chair' in the Skyhold info dump through gameinformer might be my undoing ).

 

What I am thankful for is that Dorian is "brown". Not only are "brown" people presented as either the villian or not at all in western media more often than not, but a brown LGBTQ person is literally unheard of. So yes, it's lovely that people can now see that we exist, and could potentially make an interesting combo.

 

And as for why I wanted Blackwall to be a potential m/m romance so bad? Same as Cullen in one way: I'm a sucker for the experienced knight trope, but he's also big, burly and not at all high-voiced, quite literally my body type (and may also be 'hot' to me..........). One day, I hope to get a Ser Beefcakes, and I do not regret hoping for it. It just sucks that it's not the first Ser Beefcakes.

 

Also, I'm never going to call him that again, because it sounds funny, and I do not like it, but, eh, what the hell.

[DarthAleas]

I got only one strictly gay LI for my male inquisitor and that moustache gotta go.

 

How DARE you talk about The 'Stache in that manner?! (No, seriously, I'm just joking. I respect your opinion. I just had to make a comment because, you know. The 'Stache. )

[daveliam]

I dunno if this is supposed to be a negative or positive comment, but here goes. I freely admit Dorian seems a little worrying, and I also freely admit it has to do with lack of knowledge and the fact I have big triggers. You see, it's hard to imagine representation outside of that stereotype because it's so damn rare to begin with. Gay men in media seem to ALWAYS be overly flamboyant (even if not pushed to comedic levels), and as a gay man who is neither flamboyant, nor fitting any other stereotype, this bothers me (note this is all opinionated) because not only does the shock with not being stereotypical lead people to believe I am not gay, but even worse, it seems that people believe I am 'hiding' the part of me (non-existent), that represents this stereotype. I am not a 'gay best friend', nor do I wish to be a 'gay best friend'. So at the first mention of 'all the sass', I am the first to admit I do get terrified. If Dorian is nothing like that, well I'm glad to be wrong, and always will be. (The 'handsome leather chair' in the Skyhold info dump through gameinformer might be my undoing ).

 

C'mon Kurin, don't you know that any gay guys who are masculine are just "straight acting" in order to take advantage of straight privilege due to their internalized homophobia......

 

On to Dorian:  I feel like he's going to be a really good representation.  I have a feeling based on some of Gaider's comments that he's really very proud of the story that developed for Dorian and that it's one that he's wanted to tell for a while.  I can't imagine that he will be reduced to a stereotype.  I think he's going to be a very well developed and fully realized person.  I'm sure there might be a cringe-worthy moment here and there, but in general, I'm not worried. 

 

You just might want to keep him and Vivienne away from each other.  I feel like she might be an amp for his sassiness.  She is a sassy diva herself. 

[sandalisthemaker]

I dunno if this is supposed to be a negative or positive comment, but here goes. I freely admit Dorian seems a little worrying, and I also freely admit it has to do with lack of knowledge and the fact I have big triggers. You see, it's hard to imagine representation outside of that stereotype because it's so damn rare to begin with. Gay men in media seem to ALWAYS be overly flamboyant (even if not pushed to comedic levels), and as a gay man who is neither flamboyant, nor fitting any other stereotype, this bothers me (note this is all opinionated) because not only does the shock with not being stereotypical lead people to believe I am not gay, but even worse, it seems that people believe I am 'hiding' the part of me (non-existent), that represents this stereotype. I am not a 'gay best friend', nor do I wish to be a 'gay best friend'. So at the first mention of 'all the sass', I am the first to admit I do get terrified. If Dorian is nothing like that, well I'm glad to be wrong, and always will be. (The 'handsome leather chair' in the Skyhold info dump through gameinformer might be my undoing ).

 

What I am thankful for is that Dorian is "brown". Not only are "brown" people presented as either the villian or not at all in western media more often than not, but a brown LGBTQ person is literally unheard of. So yes, it's lovely that people can now see that we exist, and could potentially make an interesting combo.

 

And as for why I wanted Blackwall to be a potential m/m romance so bad? Same as Cullen in one way: I'm a sucker for the experienced knight trope, but he's also big, burly and not at all high-voiced, quite literally my body type (and may also be 'hot' to me..........). One day, I hope to get a Ser Beefcakes, and I do not regret hoping for it. It just sucks that it's not the first Ser Beefcakes.

 

Also, I'm never going to call him that again, because it sounds funny, and I do not like it, but, eh, what the hell.

 

I get what you are saying about the "knight" types.  I would love to see a gay male knightly character. Or bisexual.

 

As far as Dorian goes, I think that on the basis of looks and what little we've seen of his character, he's a tiny bit closer to flamboyant on a 'non flamboyant vs flamboyant spectrum, but we haven't seen nearly enough to judge.  I enjoy a bit of "sass" but I would also like to see more diverse personalities among gay guys in media.  

 

Regardless I think I will enjoy Dorian as a character and LI, and am grateful for his inclusion in the roster.

[Allan Schumacher]

I dunno if this is supposed to be a negative or positive comment, but here goes. I freely admit Dorian seems a little worrying, and I also freely admit it has to do with lack of knowledge and the fact I have big triggers.

 

I think that's fine, and I think that that is part of the challenge.  In that for one particularly character, those impacted by the representation may go "This is fine and acceptable."  While another of that same group may feel "I don't like this... it feels off."  I don't think either view is necessarily invalid.  But for the first group, they conclude "Yessss this was great representation."  For the other group, they go "WTF BioWare!?"  Despite the numbers being even.

[Feuerwerke]

Generalizations tend not to make good debate matter.

 

Considering what I'm pointing out here is that the majority of a group that can romance a certain LI vocally dislikes her, whereas the majority of a group that is excluded from romancing her would absolutely love to, the generalization is perfectly valid.

 

Cass should've been bi, in short. That way the handful of guys who do like her can still have her but then so can the girls who want her. I've been heartbroken since the straight Cassandra announcement honestly.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't worry that much about gender stereotypes with m/m relationships from Bioware, because I honestly think this is the one area they've actually done pretty well with. There are other issues I think need to be seriously considered (promiscuous bisexuals, bisexual males always preferring women, "noble do-gooders" always being straight), but the male options we've gotten have been very different in body types and general level of masculinity. I don't believe we've ever had a truly feminine m/m LI. Zevran and Fenris had smaller body types, but they weren't effeminate in personality. Iron Bull is extremely masculine, to an almost absurd level. Cortez was quite masculine, definitely nothing particularly feminine about him. Kaidan and Anders are high average on the masculinity scale, I'd say. The options we've had are pretty varied, so this specific issue isn't something I'd worry overly about.  

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

May I ask a question?  You seem to have differentiated between Cassandra and Josephine based on their sexuality, even though both are interested in romancing straight males.  Are you not interested in romancing Josephine because of her bisexuality?  And, if so, why is that? 

 

I recognize that this question might open a giant can of worms, so I'd also be happy to take it to PM, if you want.  I'm curious as to your rationale.

 

 

Huh? Oh no, I was just borrowing the term from another poster who commented there was one 'strictly gay' character available to them. I wasn't criticizing them for it either btw. just poking fun.

 

As I said in a previous post I have 7 options. most of them will be female toons mind you, since there are mostly dudes. lol.

[AresKeith]

Considering what I'm pointing out here is that the majority of a group that can romance a certain LI vocally dislikes her, whereas the majority of a group that is excluded from romancing her would absolutely love to, the generalization is perfectly valid.

 

Cass should've been bi, in short. That way the handful of guys who do like her can still have her but then so can the girls who want her. I've been heartbroken since the straight Cassandra announcement honestly.

 

No generalization is perfectly valid, the people who vocally dislike still doesn't represent the majority

[TheJediSaint]

Considering what I'm pointing out here is that the majority of a group that can romance a certain LI vocally dislikes her, whereas the majority of a group that is excluded from romancing her would absolutely love to, the generalization is perfectly valid.

 

Cass should've been bi, in short. That way the handful of guys who do like her can still have her but then so can the girls who want her. I've been heartbroken since the straight Cassandra announcement honestly.

 

Evidence?