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[Nocte ad Mortem]

mShep/Cortez was the better dynamic than Kaidan/mShep in my opinion.  And so many people got bullied and forced to shut up because they were not on the Kaidan/mShep train.

 

Cortez was sweet...sexy...and the banter he had if your mShep clicked on  him between missions made me smile.  

 

People use this BS excuse that he was still grieving and mShep forced it on him. People grieve in their own way and there was a war going on. 

 

The majority of mShep/Kaidan used the EXACT SAME dialogue as it was with femShep/Kaidan.   Had they really made the effort and incorporated different dialogue I likely would have thought differently. 

I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation I was having about the masculinity of m/m LIs offered thus far, but.. alright? You're free to like whatever dynamic you want better. Personally, I wasn't a fan of Cortez. I liked Kaidan quite a bit, although the portrayal wasn't amazing. My issue with Cortez was that there really didn't seem to be much relevance to him and, yes, I really do think it was too soon after his husband died. I "count" them both as options for my demographic, whether I liked him, or not, though. 

 

I don't really care if the dialog is different between the genders, though. There's no objective reason why a bisexual person has to speak differently to their partner depending on what gender they are. It makes sense that he'd say the same things in the same situation with a partner of another gender. It's not an issue for me.

[Felene]

Few things:

 

• Thank you Bioware.

 

• THANK YOU BIOWARE and Mike and David and everyone that works on DA:I !

​

•  Can we please please please keep doing this for all future Bioware game that has romance sub-plot in them? Announce potential LI in advance is such a big relieve for me. This way I can stop following romance thread or news about the game before launch so I won't be spoiled by any other information I might come across while searching for information on LI(s).

 

• ...Blackwall, really? OMG! I was so sure it will be Vivienne, WHAT A TWIST! Seems like I will need to add one more play-through to my list, that will most definitely add more game time and increase the overall value of the game. Awesome!    [ Sorry Vivienne fans. ]

 

• Again, thank you Bioware Devs for listening to us crazy fans and please consider to create more surprise romance option in the future.

 

Now... 75 days. /count down start

[Battlebloodmage]

A lot of the guys and girls that want to romance Dorian feels like he's too feminine and flamboyant. I wonder if he were revealed as straight instead would he have been seen as too feminine. Just curious if it's confirmation bias.

 

To be fair, a lot of people predicted him to be the gay option based on the his posture and his quotes even before the reveal. It would have been a surprise if the perceived flamboyant character were straight instead while a masculine character like Blackwall or Cullen were gay. I'm not saying they are, just the warrior type, knight in shining armor or princely type.

[HK-90210]

Personally, I think Blackwall is wasted on the Femiquisitors.

 

And Cassandra is wasted on the malequisitors :/

 

 

It's sad that people can't just be happy for others. I am emotionally unable to play m/m romances(it's a very traumatic trigger for me). Yet, Dorian is one of the most intriguing characters in DA:I. I'll never be able to actually experience the romance part of his content. Makes me sad. That being said, I'm happy that others can. Congrats to those who enjoy m/m content, whatever your personal orientation happens to be. It looks like you got yourselves a very good romance. Enjoy it on my behalf, and I am happy for you.

 

On the other hand, as a straight male gamer who happens to be deeply religious, Cassandra is a dream come true. A woman of faith who is deeply devoted to her church and her world, strong-willed and independent but at heart is a bit of a romantic. I've never been more excited about a romance since I found out those even existed in gaming. I find it deeply offensive that anyone could say that this kind of content is 'wasted' on a straight male like me. And I find it awful that anyone would say the same thing, joking or not, about any group of gamers, be they gay or straight.

 

No LI is 'wasted' on any subset of gamers, even us straight folks who don't play homosexual romances.

[Angloassassin]

Hey Allan I was wondering if you can answer a question if you cant thats fine I was wondering will there be brothels in DAI like The Pearl/Blooming Rose?

 

 

What's a good, doomed fantasy world without brothels?!

[Nocte ad Mortem]

A lot of the guys and girls that want to romance Dorian feels like he's too feminine and flamboyant. I wonder if he were revealed as straight instead would he have been seen as too feminine. Just curious if it's confirmation bias.

 

To be fair, a lot of people predicted him to be the gay option based on the his posture and his quotes even before the reveal. It would have been a surprise if the perceived flamboyant character were straight instead while a masculine character like Blackwall or Cullen were gay. I'm not saying they are, just the warrior type, knight in shining armor or princely type.

Honestly, I think it's over estimated how many people guessed he'd be gay just because of the way he looked. I think a huge amount of people thought he would be gay just to offset Cullen, because they're the only really conventionally attractive, human men. A lot of people were saying exactly that. 

[AresKeith]

What's a good, doomed fantasy world without brothels?!

 

A fantasy world without brothels, what blasphemy is this?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Honestly, I would be really happy if they would make a game without a brothel, but that's just me.   

[Battlebloodmage]

Honestly, I think it's over estimated how many people guessed he'd be straight just because of the way he looked. I think a huge amount of people thought he would be gay just to offset Cullen, because they're the only really conventionally attractive, human men. A lot of people were saying exactly that. 

And yet, Cullen wasn't even an option during development and was only got added as a last minute bonus. The main romance was supposed to be Blackwall, and he's not considered conventionally pretty at all. I know a few friends who said they quit the forum/or not buying the game since the options for m/m was bad. Dorian as being flamboyant and IronBull "ugly". I'm not saying it's true or since since they're opinions. It just makes me ponder over Dorian's sexuality and his perceived masculinity. I personally had a few friends come out and they're being viewed differently and people notice how "gay" they are. If the option were Blackwall or Cullen-type of character, I don't think there would be a question in their gayness.

[Battlebloodmage]

Honestly, I would be really happy if they would make a game without a brothel, but that's just me.   

I just want it for the tradition like people who hate each other just come together for Thanksgiving. 

[Angloassassin]

Honestly, I would be really happy if they would make a game without a brothel, but that's just me.   

 

 

But... But... It's where I go if I screw up my romances. I can't - in good conscience - make my character *Not* romance someone...

 

That'd be like playing *As* Sten in DA:O. 

 

"Parshaara, No..."

[Nocte ad Mortem]

And yet, Cullen wasn't even an option during development and was only got added as a last minute bonus. The main romance was supposed to be Blackwall, and he's not considered conventionally pretty at all. I know a few friends who said they quit the forum/or not buying the game since the options for m/m was bad. Dorian as being flamboyant and IronBull "ugly". I'm not saying it's true or since since they're opinions. It just makes me ponder over Dorian's sexuality and his perceived masculinity. I personally had a few friends come out and they're being viewed differently and people notice how "gay" they are. If the option were Blackwall or Cullen-type of character, I don't think there would be a question in their gayness.

Well, we knew very early on that Cullen would be a romance option. They told us that before we even knew Dorian's name. So, while it's true that he was added later and Blackwall was the original option, nobody knew that or expected it when they were making guesses. I remember polls early on that put Blackwall dead last in who they expected to be a LI. When polled as to who people wanted, with over 2k votes, Blackwall got the least amount of support. It's just something people weren't expecting. What is true and why people guessed the way they did are two different things.

 

Personally, almost all of the gay guys I know are super excited about Dorian. I know some that are livid about the uneven numbers, but everyone I know was cheering for Dorian as the gay option. So, it's just subjective, I guess? I've never seen him as flamboyant and I don't really get why other people do. I don't think it's "obvious" that he is, for sure. I can't say why your friends are saying what they are.

 

I'll admit, though, I haven't heard much positive response to Iron Bull, either. Not from people off BSN. I know he has fans here, though. So, clearly there's a market. I've said before, though, I was surprised he was an option at all and I was surprised people wanted him to be. I look at it as a learning experience that sometimes other people's tastes are very different than mine, though.

[Trophonius]

A lot of the guys and girls that want to romance Dorian feels like he's too feminine and flamboyant. I wonder if he were revealed as straight instead would he have been seen as too feminine. Just curious if it's confirmation bias.
 
To be fair, a lot of people predicted him to be the gay option based on the his posture and his quotes even before the reveal. It would have been a surprise if the perceived flamboyant character were straight instead while a masculine character like Blackwall or Cullen were gay. I'm not saying they are, just the warrior type, knight in shining armor or princely type.

I feel like it's impossible for Bioware to win here. If Solas had been the gay companion, people would've complained that he only serves to perpetuate the bi/gay elf stereotype; for Blackwall, people would've complained that he was too old or ugly; for Cullen, people would've complained that he's merely an NPC and therefore, unimportant. Now that we have a conventionally attractive gay option in Dorian, people still complain about his perceived and non-existent femininity.

[aTigerslunch]

Curious, Battlebloodmage.  Did you read what I said about Dorian by chance?  Also, we don't know enough about the characters before talking to them.

 

Judging people by their covers is a bit awful. In accordance, reread what Allan said about what Dorian is like.  I think there is more than one dev that loves Dorian as a character, I know of one.

 

 

@Trophonius, I said this in a different post.  People complain about Anders and Fenris quite a bit, and repeatedly, and those that complain remind me of them two in the whining department. 

 

And seems quite a few will never be happy regardless.  I was little surprised by Blackwall over Vivienne and at the same time I really want that surprised. She didn't seem the type that would have been to me.

 

I have Josie, Im happy, and I will be playing multiple genders in variance and sexualities. No biggie to me, I feel those that restrict themselves loose out on their own free will. Nothing, except themselves, is keeping anyone from romancing Blackwall, Cullen or any others.

[Battlebloodmage]

Curious, Battlebloodmage.  Did you read what I said about Dorian by chance?  Also, we don't know enough about the characters before talking to them.

 

Judging people by their covers is a bit awful. In accordance, reread what Allan said about what Dorian is like.  I think there is more than one dev that loves Dorian as a character, I know of one.

Well, I'm so-so about him since I personally pin for Cullen for all 3 games. It's not just my opinion, just to be clear. It's just some of the people I know who find him feminine and find it offensive to a certain extend.I personally don't find any of the gay options attractive but I can't say if I find Dorian to be feminine or not since there is so little being revealed about him. That is why I'm asking others if Dorian come off as feminine to them, just want to get a broader view on this. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I have Josie, Im happy, and I will be playing multiple genders in variance and sexualities. No biggie to me, I feel those that restrict themselves loose out on their own free will. Nothing, except themselves, is keeping anyone from romancing Blackwall, Cullen or any others.

That's easy to say, if you do really enjoy playing different sort of characters, but it's basically like telling some to just start liking chocolate ice cream if the store is out of vanilla. Sure, it would solve the problem, but it's not that easy to just start liking something when you don't.  

[Nocte ad Mortem]

As for Dorian, he had a very large gay following on the BSN before he was confirmed. He definitely had a high demand from gay fans. I have a hard time imagining that it could be the majority of gay fans that are "offended". The vast majority of response I've seen to him from gay fans, both here on the BSN and in real life, has been positive.  

[Battlebloodmage]

As for Dorian, he had a very large gay following on the BSN before he was confirmed. He definitely had a high demand from gay fans. I have a hard time imagining that it could be the majority of gay fans that are "offended". The vast majority of response I've seen to him from gay fans, both here on the BSN and in real life, has been positive.  

I never said a majority, just a lot of the people I know from here or in real life, so it's more like personal experience, as with yours. Our mileage is different. I guess. 2 of the BSN I personally know on here quit after the reveal. Responses are varied between groups and regions so just because it's positive based on what you have been mean that it's positive everywhere. My question isn't even about how much gay fanbase he has, so no point in bringing it up. It's more about him being revealed actually have any confirmation bias toward people perceived him as gay and would a character type like Cullen or Blackwall would have received the perceived gayness. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I never said a majority, just a lot of the people I know from here or in real life, so it's more like personal experience, as with yours. Our mileage is different. I guess. 2 of the BSN I personally know on here quit after the reveal. Responses are varied between groups and regions so just because it's positive based on what you have been mean that it's positive everywhere. My question isn't even about how much gay fanbase he has, so no point in bringing it up. It's more about him being revealed actually have any confirmation bias toward people perceived him as gay and would a character type like Cullen or Blackwall would have received the perceived gayness. 

Well, we knew Cullen wouldn't be gay because of his history in DA:O. He was always going to be at least bi, but very likely straight. It was a smart choice to guess Cullen would be straight, since he showed attraction to female human and elf characters before and never to male characters. Blackwall wasn't expected to be a LI at all, for anyone. I mean, like I said, in a poll of almost 3k people, he got dead last for interest as a romance. It might be fair enough to say his "knightly" quality makes him seem more straight, but I think it's even more relevant to say that he wasn't expected because the majority of people aren't attracted to older, beardy men in comparison to younger guys, like Cullen and Dorian.

[JadePrince]

That's easy to say, if you do really enjoy playing different sort of characters, but it's basically like telling some to just start liking chocolate ice cream if the store is out of vanilla. Sure, it would solve the problem, but it's not that easy to just start liking something when you don't.  

 

This. It's not just about 'not liking' to play a different gender/sexuality for some of us, either. I play as a male because I'm a trans guy and about 90% of the time, trying to play as a woman gives me serious gender dysphoria/shitty feelings since I'm basically just recreating in-game all the misgendering I experience in my real life (being called "miss" and "lady" because I'm not very masculine looking). So it's not just a simple matter of "why don't you try rolling a different gender/that's what RPGs are about" because for ME, rpgs are about giving me the chance to play as the gender I feel most comfortable as. I'm forced to 'role-play' a woman every day. I don't want to do it in my games too.  

 

I don't expect most people to get this because most people are comfortable in their own gender and playing a different one isn't a big deal, but it'd be nice if, before people say "Just play a different gender", they'd try to understand that it's not that simple for all of us. 

[Ray561]

I'm Super happy to have Cassandra as a Romance option simply because she's so different from what we have had before the closest we have had was ME1 Ashley till she was made to be "sexy" in ME3.

 

Cullen as well cause now we don't have to here the begging for him to be a Love Interest anymore.

[Battlebloodmage]

Well, we knew Cullen wouldn't be gay because of his history in DA:O. He was always going to be at least bi, but very likely straight. It was a smart choice to guess Cullen would be straight, since he showed attraction to female human and elf characters before and never to male characters. Blackwall wasn't expected to be a LI at all, for anyone. I mean, like I said, in a poll of almost 3k people, he got dead last for interest as a romance. It might be fair enough to say his "knightly" quality makes him seem more straight, but I think it's even more relevant to say that he wasn't expected because the majority of people aren't attracted to older, beardy men in comparison to younger guys, like Cullen and Dorian.

I'm more talking about their character type than established history, like if Cullen were a new character, and he were being revealed as a princely knight type warrior character who command a whole army or Blackwall (supposed that he's younger), a strong and unwavering warrior. From DA history, those characters are always straight, Alistair, Sebastian, Cullen.

[Battlebloodmage]

I'm Super happy to have Cassandra as a Romance option simply because she's so different from what we have had before the closest we have had was ME1 Ashley till she was made to be "sexy" in ME3.

 

Cullen as well cause now we don't have to here the begging for him to be a Love Interest anymore.

Would have been fun to see old man Cullen as a LI in DA5. "You kids get off my lawn!!!"

[Nocte ad Mortem]

This. It's not just about 'not liking' to play a different gender/sexuality for some of us, either. I play as a male because I'm a trans guy and about 90% of the time, trying to play as a woman gives me serious gender dysphoria/shitty feelings since I'm basically just recreating in-game all the misgendering I experience in my real life (being called "miss" and "lady" because I'm not very masculine looking). So it's not just a simple matter of "why don't you try rolling a different gender/that's what RPGs are about" because for ME, rpgs are about giving me the chance to play as the gender I feel most comfortable as. I'm forced to 'role-play' a woman every day. I don't want to do it in my games too.  

 

I don't expect most people to get this because most people are comfortable in their own gender and playing a different one isn't a big deal, but it'd be nice if, before people say "Just play a different gender", they'd try to understand that it's not that simple for all of us. 

Thank you for that post and I can really understand why this would be especially hard for you. 

 

For me, it's that I so rarely get to play as a gay male, or even see gay men prominently in media. When I finally have the chance, playing the game again as anything else just isn't as enjoyable. I won't play a female to romance the extra characters. I'd love to see Solas's romance, especially, but it's just not the same experience. I've seen enough hetero romance in literally everything else. I can't really get into more when I have another option.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm more talking about their character type than established history, like if Cullen were a new character, and he were being revealed as a princely knight type warrior character who command a whole army or Blackwall (supposed that he's younger), a strong and unwavering warrior. From DA history, those characters are always straight, Alistair, Sebastian, Cullen.

That, I totally agree with. Bioware has established a strong precedent for making that type of character straight, you're right. Is that relative to real life stereotypes of flamboyance? To me, no, not really. It definitely has real world implications, but I don't think that's necessarily it. You're right that Cullen is a stereotype that Bioware seems to have trouble seeing as gay or bi and I think that does need to change. I'm not sure if it follows, though, that this means Dorian is a flamboyant character in the way gay men are typically portrayed in media.