3344 réponses à ce sujet

[Zarathiel]

Excuse me, I might be interpreting this wrong but are you saying that you'd like to see limitations deliberately imposed on us straight guys? So in a way, you want me to be treated in the same way that minority groups were treated in the past (and probably are being treated) just so you can restore "balance". They were hurt by those restrictions before, so now it's my turn to get hurt?? I have a better idea, how about we just get rid of these so called restrictions and aim for inclusivity such that nobody gets hurt? I'm all for equality in that everybody gets equal choices. I don't mind some groups getting more but ignoring us entirely because *HISTORY*, is taking it too far.

 

And just so you know, I'm satisfied with the choices available to me in DAI. Apologies if I offended anyone, I'm just tired of hearing people say "if anybody deserves less, it's straight guys" or "straight guys should compromise on choices now since they've had lots in the past". How games treated minority groups in the past was wrong but you can't right that wrong by treating me(us) the same way now 

 

I agree with you 100%, but, at least for the second part you bolded of atigerslunch's post, I think they meant that it would be nice to see less heteronormative stories in games, not that all games should punish straight guys. Which is something I definitely agree with.

 

The first part you bolded does kind of sound that way, though.

[aTigerslunch]

Excuse me, I might be interpreting this wrong but are you saying that you'd like to see limitations deliberately imposed on us straight guys? So in a way, you want me to be treated in the same way that minority groups were treated in the past (and probably are being treated) just so you can restore "balance". They were hurt by those restrictions before, so now it's my turn to get hurt?? I have a better idea, how about we just get rid of these so called restrictions and aim for inclusivity such that nobody gets hurt? I'm all for equality in that everybody gets equal choices. I don't mind some groups getting more but ignoring us entirely because *HISTORY*, is taking it too far.

And just so you know, I'm satisfied with the choices available to me in DAI. Apologies if I offended anyone, I'm just tired of hearing people say "if anybody deserves less, it's straight guys" or "straight guys should compromise on choices now since they've had lots in the past". How games treated minority groups in the past was wrong but you can't right that wrong by treating me(us) the same way now

Sorry, I dont word things right sometimes and confuse people. We have two females for the straight males. There is finally two for gay men and lesbians. This is how it should be. Granted straight women (human/elf) got two extra, which is fine. The straight males need to stop complaining because its equal. Regardless about the extra I mentioned. Complaints of not enough, or they have to many is downright silly to me. Most games outside of Bioware will cater to straight males. Its time that it gets balanced as well. I didnt mean take away from what we have. Those straight males should consider opening themselves to allow (several here do) for a variance in their own plays. We do tend to get the most in media though, its why I dont feel sorry for straight males, especially those that feel 50/50 is less when nothing was taken from straight males. Its a balance I was referring to. Example....AC rogue should be a gay man cause ac unity has 4 males. Just using this as an example not downing them, short on time to write this before I go back to the floor.

[DameGrace]

I feel the LI choices are interesting. You've got the "good guys" Cassandra, Blackwall, Josephine, Cullen: Kind, loyal, determined, generally look good. The lovers your parents would be proud of. And then the "bad guys" Sera, Iron Bull: chaotic, mischievous, fun, look more 'punk'. The lovers your parents would disown you for.

 

Not sure where to place Solas and Dorian yet. Maybe they're the "neutral guys".

 

Well, depends on the parents   Solas is the elf, so I'm sure fem!elf!Quizzy's clan would have approved (same race, elf babies, etc), but he is not Dalish and I think he doesn't believe in the same gods. Dorian... he is a Tevinter mage, so if the Inquisitor is a human non-mage (coming from Chantry-supporting family) I don't see his parents overly thrilled with his choice. 

 

Also, Blackwall - if you are playing human non-mage, then maybe your parents won't approve of choosing this bulky bearded guy (who may be old enough to be your father). If you are an elf, then your clan won't be happy with you hooking up with the human (or, Creators forbid, with the qunari!). 

[Lady Shayna]

 I just want to see how people see Dorian as the first gay companion and if he were a good representation. It would be nice to hear an opinion from the straight crowd.

 

As a hetero female, I have to say though it seems he's probably vain, I don't see anything yet besides the active imaginations of fans to indicate he's really into fashion and against Vivienne in this matter.  Self-assurance and confidence is going to be second-nature to him, after all, given his background.  He's also an iconoclast and rebellious.  While I can kinda see the Freddie Mercury thing, and the general wish for someone besides a mage, I just don't see anything from him in the short cutscenes from the game or his background blurb that make me see him as an easily stereotyped individual.  Indeed, though I understand where people are coming from, I would not have pegged him as gay, personally, just from his profile blurb and pictures.  Perhaps a  failure of mine?  I don't know.  I somewhat hope that my female mage Trevelyan can flirt with him and be politely rebuffed, though I can see where BioWare would avoid that in order to not lead on players who have avoided spoilers.

[Irx]

Sorry, I dont word things right sometimes and confuse people. We have two females for the straight males. There is finally two for gay men and lesbians. This is how it should be.

 It shouldn't be so. Gays are a much smaller group thus they pay less and should get less. Not fair? Well sucks to be them, the world is not fair and it shouldn't be made fair at my expense, I don't owe anything to anyone, yet they take my money to make content for another group.

[daveliam]

Here are some of the stuffs I heard from Bioware forum people and real life people:

 

He cares about his looks, and it's being perceived by people I talked to as fashion stereotype with a "hag" that is Vivienne, which one of my close gay friends see as a stereotype.

His look resembles Freddie Mercury. 

His class is a mage. Masculinity seems to define as toughness and rough, so it's more on the warrior's side.

 

 

These seem.......a bit a stretch. 

 

He cares about his looks because he's a noble.  I guess this is somewhat stereotypical in some ways, even though it probably goes without saying that it's not a terribly accurate stereotype.

 

While I could see how his friendship/rivalry with Vivienne could be construed as the gay/"hag" dynamic, I don't know if we know enough about either to character to know if this plays out in a stereotypical way.

 

He vaguely resembles Freddie Mercury, a bisexual man

 

If people are assuming that all mages are less masculine than all warriors/rogues, then that's on them.  Masculinity isn't really tied into your profession. 

 

I personally think that the people who are claiming that he's a stereotype are looking for ways in which he might be a stereotype.  Outside of the first one, about his emphasis on looks, I'm just not seeing it at all.

[daveliam]

 It shouldn't be so. Gays are a much smaller group thus they pay less and should get less. Not fair? Well sucks to be them, the world is not fair and it shouldn't be made fair at my expense, I don't owe anything to anyone, yet they take my money to make content for another group.

 

Straight men didn't get as many romance options as they want.  Not fair?  Well sucks to be you, the world is not fair and it shouldn't be made fair at my expense, I don't owe anything to anyone, yet they take my money to make content for another group.

[Irx]

Straight men didn't get as many romance options as they want.  Not fair?  Well sucks to be you, the world is not fair and it shouldn't be made fair at my expense, I don't owe anything to anyone, yet they take my money to make content for another group.

Logic comprehension fail? You don't pay enough to get equal treatment, thus they steal my money to make content for you, not the vice versa. Which is actually a discrimination and preferential treatment - you get more than you deserve.

[Sporothrix]

Sorry, I dont word things right sometimes and confuse people. We have two females for the straight males. There is finally two for gay men and lesbians. This is how it should be. Granted straight women (human/elf) got two extra, which is fine. The straight males need to stop complaining because its equal.

 

It's not only straight men that are not OK with this situation. I find it a little disheartening that with all the extra time the devs were only interested in telling more white straight men's stories.

 

And there were already two options for gay men and lesbians in DA2, where straight women had more options as well, and considering questions about advisor romances, it's possible regress for lesbians right now, or not, depending on how it works out in the end - it's just that similar romances in ME3 didn't feel like full blown romances. So at best, it's no change since DA2.

[Zarathiel]

Logic comprehension fail? You don't pay enough to get equal treatment, thus they steal my money to make content for you, not the vice versa. Which is actually a discrimination and preferential treatment - you get more than you deserve.

 

Stop trying to get the thread locked (again), please.

[hotdogbsg]

Ya know, if people aren't happy with the romance on offer for their character they could always play a different character on a second, third, fourth, etc playthrough.

 

I mean, I get making a player character somewhat based on yourself, I tend to do it too for my first runthroughs too but personally I like to change it up if I come back to a game such as this for a second time.

[Sporothrix]

Logic comprehension fail? You don't pay enough to get equal treatment, thus they steal my money to make content for you, not the vice versa. Which is actually a discrimination and preferential treatment - you get more than you deserve.

 

LOL, no one forces you to buy this game you know. You have so many other games where you can only play as straight dude if you don't like this one.

[ElitePinecone]

Logic comprehension fail? You don't pay enough to get equal treatment, thus they steal my money to make content for you, not the vice versa. Which is actually a discrimination and preferential treatment - you get more than you deserve.

 

Bioware has previously said that their decisions about things like romances aren't based on audience size. To the extent that they can, they try to provide equal options for a range of genders and sexualities. 

 

(And hell, it's not like millions of straight players care that the studio is making gay romances. They probably buy the game for the swords and fancy castles and never think for a second that resources are being spent on something they won't personally use. I don't think most reasonable people would have a problem with other people getting content if they themselves are satisfied.)

 

Also, you aren't funding the game. You don't get to decide what goes in there. EA gives them a budget, they make a game, and you decide whether or not you want to buy it.

 

Nobody is "stealing" anything from you. Your $60 goes into a big pile with literally hundreds of thousands of other lesbian and gay players, and at the end of the day the company can't tell which is which.

[KaiserShep]

This is when I learned that male characters a ton more flirt options than female ones. >_<

 

I liked how in DA2, you could flirt with lots of characters with no regard to gender. Didn't matter if it led anywhere. Just being able to flirt is fun.

[Sporothrix]

Ya know, if people aren't happy with the romance on offer for their character they could always play a different character on a second, third, fourth, etc playthrough.

 

I mean, I get making a player character somewhat based on yourself, I tend to do it too for my first runthroughs too but personally I like to change it up if I come back to a game such as this for a second time.

 

Even if I forced myself to play as straight dude, that wouldn't provide fourth playthrough with different romance, since there are only 3 romances for gynosexuals, while androsexuals get 5.

[Maria Caliban]

It shouldn't be so. Gays are a much smaller group thus they pay less and should get less. Not fair? Well sucks to be them, the world is not fair and it shouldn't be made fair at my expense, I don't owe anything to anyone, yet they take my money to make content for another group.

More people did a f/f romance with Leliana than played a rogue in DA:O.

BioWare's telemetry shows that the number of queer people playing is much, much larger than what they project, or that many straight players enjoy same-sex romances.

Besides, out of the eight romances, only two are gay.

[daveliam]

Logic comprehension fail? You don't pay enough to get equal treatment, thus they steal my money to make content for you, not the vice versa. Which is actually a discrimination and preferential treatment - you get more than you deserve.

I pay the same amount as you. Unless there is a straight guy tax that I'm unfamiliar with. I'm talking ME, personally. Not some group that you THINK represents me. ME. I pay the same amout as you do.

[Milana]

I pay the same amount as you. Unless there is a straight guy tax that I'm unfamiliar with. I'm talking ME, personally. Not some group that you THINK represents me. ME. I pay the same amout as you do.

I dont think there's any sense to reply to those kinds of posts...such people are either trolling or just simply rude, so better not bother.

[Ianamus]

More people did a f/f romance with Leliana than played a rogue in DA:O.

BioWare's telemetry shows that the number of queer people playing is much, much larger than what they project, or that many straight players enjoy same-sex romances.

 

To be honest in that situation it's definately the latter. Many of my straight friends played an f/f romance with Leliana. Even my dad did, on his one and only playthrough of DA:O.

 

It's probably true that there a lot more gay and lesbian players than you'd think, but romances aren't a good way to measure it. You get the straight people who play the same gender romances and the gay and lesbian players who don't initiate a romance. There's also the matter of bisexual players, who could be playing any of the romances.

[Yinello]

You do realize that all it takes is one millionaire to overrule an entire group of people?

[Zarathiel]

Sorry, I dont word things right sometimes and confuse people. We have two females for the straight males. There is finally two for gay men and lesbians. This is how it should be. Granted straight women (human/elf) got two extra, which is fine. The straight males need to stop complaining because its equal. Regardless about the extra I mentioned. Complaints of not enough, or they have to many is downright silly to me. Most games outside of Bioware will cater to straight males. Its time that it gets balanced as well. I didnt mean take away from what we have. Those straight males should consider opening themselves to allow (several here do) for a variance in their own plays. We do tend to get the most in media though, its why I dont feel sorry for straight males, especially those that feel 50/50 is less when nothing was taken from straight males. Its a balance I was referring to. Example....AC rogue should be a gay man cause ac unity has 4 males. Just using this as an example not downing them, short on time to write this before I go back to the floor.

 

My only two issues are this.

 

A: I can't imagine asking a transwoman to play as a man unless I knew her and knew she'd be comfortable doing so. By that same token, I can't imagine asking a straight guy to play a woman or a gay man. Some people just can't get into that different mindset, and I don't blame them. This is the first time I'll be playing any gay male characters, and only because the two romance options for that orientation are interesting enough for me to get over the fact that I'm not attracted to other men.

 

B: Many of those who are upset are acting like petulant children, yes. But some are upset because of a post by Allan Schumacher, and multiple posts by other posters that say it's okay to give extra options to the previously neglected groups and avoid ever giving any of those extra options to straight males. Those who complained about this have every right to be upset. That kind of reasoning, imo, is complete garbage. It may be well intended, but it's ultimately misguided.

 

Excluding straight males in the future won't affect the past treatment of women or LGB people in any way, and shifting who receives preferential treatment will only cause more negativity. Especially if people gloat or basically go "neener, neener now you know how it feels," as I've seen a few people do in this thread. There can only be equality if no one receives preferential treatment.Thankfully, in DAI, apparently we had equal options and were then given extra options that were determined by the creative process.

 

Which is what I believe should decide anything "extra," after everyone's gotten equal options to start with. That's just my $0.02, though.

[just.somebody2]

Still at it huh?

[Maria Caliban]

To be honest in that situation it's definately the latter. Many of my stright friends played an f/f romance with Leliana. Even my dad did, on his one and only playthrough of DA:O.
 
It's probably true that there a lot more gay and lesbian players than you'd think, but romances aren't a good way to measure it. You get the straight people who play the same gender romances and the gay and lesbian players who don't initiate a romance. There's also the matter of bisexual players, who could be playing any of the romances.

Leliana turns people gay. Confirmed.

[Kidd]

This. It's not just about 'not liking' to play a different gender/sexuality for some of us, either. I play as a male because I'm a trans guy and about 90% of the time, trying to play as a woman gives me serious gender dysphoria/shitty feelings since I'm basically just recreating in-game all the misgendering I experience in my real life (being called "miss" and "lady" because I'm not very masculine looking). So it's not just a simple matter of "why don't you try rolling a different gender/that's what RPGs are about"

Holy hell, this was well put. This is probably one (among several, to be fair) of the bigger reasons why I obsessed with Baldur's Gate and stuck with BioWare initially. Also explains why today, I feel a lot more comfortable playing a male PC when the PC is voice acted and I can thus make the distinction between my character and me more apparent - even to myself.

I'd give you two days' worth of likes for this post if I could.

[Ray561]

As far as games out side of Bio-wear e.g Assassins creed if there not going to do anything with the main characters sexuality how about we leave it ambiguous and  not star making characters hetero or gay if they don't need to be