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I am so tired to read whine from men.
Let's count LI:
Straight: Blackwall, Solas, Cassndra and Cullen
BI: Josephine, Iron BUll
GAY: Dorian, Sera
Men have 4 LI, Women have 5. I see no problem in this- men lost nothing. There are 2 girls for you, like in DAO and DA 2.
You don't like Cassandra and Josie and you prefer Vivienne instead? This is real life- you can't romance everyone you see.
TIL straight men and gay men are the same
And I have to say I disagree. It's just as important to show a lesbian character who isn't there strictly for male titillation. If she is explicitly a lesbian but the narrative treats her respectfully, then that seems extremely important to me.
If the situation I described turns out to be true, she won't be explicitly a lesbian.
Where did you get that idea? I'm saying that in this game, non-companion romances aren't limited only to the most minority players. Yes, in ME, that was most definitely the case. But not in DAI. I can't be upset that one of my two choices as a lady who wants to romance ladies is an adviser, when that is also the case for straight men and straight women.
Straight women also have 3 companion romances. And as for straigth men, one of Allan Schumacher's recent posts already explained why you shouldn't compare their situation with situation of other groups.
Just because not only lesbians, but also straight men will have it the worst if advisor romances turn out to be worse than companion romances, doesn't make it any better or deny that the group with history of being marginilized is marginilized again.
You mean a world where dynasties and lineages are important isn't wholly accepting of gay marriage?
SIlence heathen! Equality is all! No matter the context! No matter the setting!
TIL straight men and gay men are the same
Ok lets see.
Straight women: Cullen, Blackwall and Solas.
Straight men: Cassandra and Josephine.
Women have 1 Li more. What's your problem?
I think it's a bit much to assume that Vivienne is "undeserving of love", please remember that her writer is female and as it happens neither of her companions are romanceable. I think the only person who really knows why Viv isn't romanceable is Mary Kirby.
It could be something simple: She's Married/In a Live-In Relationship/Asexual/Not interested in Sex with the Inquisitor
Or it could be something complex: Tragic backstory which is TRAGIC.
Agreed. There's an implication there that I am certain is not intended, but it remains in effect. At the very least, it will until I play the actual game.it still sucks that the black female is excluded as a LI.
Ok lets see.
Straight women: Cullen, Blackwall and Solas.
Straight men: Cassandra and Josephine.
Women have 1 Li more. What's your problem?
You forgot Iron Bull - it's two more.
To be clear, I don't think the whinging is worthwhile, but if people want to point out the numbers difference, it's fair to at least acknowledge all the options.
It's true, though. Players of games are consumers of art, not co-creators of it. The developers should more or less have freedom to do what they want, and everyone who plays it has the right to criticise that fiercely and vocally. I certainly did, after ME3's ending.
They had the right to make Mass Effect 3's ending the way they did.
I had the right to say it was unsatisfying and made me feel awful instead of triumphant.
Admittedly, gamers being who they are, took it too far.
Ok lets see.
Straight women: Cullen, Blackwall and Solas.
Straight men: Cassandra and Josephine.
Women have 1 Li more. What's your problem?
I don't have one at all, romances rank somewhere between accurate portrayal of decomposition and whether there will be enough green in outfits on my list of "Important things in DA:I"
If the situation I described turns out to be true, she won't be explicitly a lesbian.
To me "non-issue" means that Sera's sexuality won't be a major issue in her life, not that she won't make it clear that she is only interested in women.
It is possible to have gay characters whose story doesnt revolve around their sexuality or how hard it is to live with it. Sera obviously has no issues that stem from her sexuality, and all of her harships come from elsewhere. That doesn't mean her sexuality isn't defined.
If the situation I described turns out to be true, she won't be explicitly a lesbian.
In an effort to move past this "argument", how explicitly would her lesbian status need to be broadcasted for your satisfaction? If it's a simple, "Hey, I like girls", I think you can rest easy.
If the situation I described turns out to be true, she won't be explicitly a lesbian.
Again, there is no reason to believe it will be, and did you miss what I said about Leliana? She also saw her sexuality as a non-issue. And she talked about her experiences with women. And she hit on Morrigan. And you meet her former lover. There is no avoiding her bisexuality, no matter what kind of character you play. You can have sexuality not turned into a source of drama while also making it explicit.
I'm actually not sure what you're arguing about. You want Sera to be bisexual because she's not lesbian enough?
Straight women also have 3 companion romances. And as for straigth men, one of Allan Schumacher's recent posts already explained why you shouldn't compare their situation with situation of other groups.
Just because not only lesbians, but also straight men will have it the worst if advisor romances turn out to be worse than companion romances, doesn't make it any better or deny that the group with history of being marginilized is marginilized again.
I am part of that group, and I just don't think that is going to be the case. Maybe I will be proven wrong when DAI comes out, and the Josephine romance will turn out to be terrible, but at this point neither of us can say. I understand your fears, after ME, but it seems like you're getting angry over assumptions rather than facts.
You mean a world where dynasties and lineages are important isn't wholly accepting of gay marriage?
And your point is that there's absolutely nothing heteronormative in that? Maybe you should start with checking out the meaning of that term.
To me "non-issue" means that Sera's sexuality won't be a major issue in her life, not that she won't make it clear that she is only interested in women.
It is possible to have gay characters whose story doesnt revolve around their sexuality or how hard it is to live with it. Sera obviously has no issues that stem from her sexuality, and all of her harships come from elsewhere. That doesn't mean her sexuality isn't defined.
It's one of the confusing things in the Dorian thread.
Where a lot of people think he'll mention he's gay like 30 times a day.
Or like Samantha Traynor and Straight Shepard's Friendship--which was just kind of weird.
I fully expect Sera's lesbian status to come up like once.
Male Flirt: So, do you like humans?
Sera: Yes, but not dudes.
Male Flirt: Oh. Well, carry on then.
Agreed. There's an implication there that I am certain is not intended, but it remains in effect. At the very least, it will until I play the actual game.
Looking at the list in my pre-game perspective, I would have traded LI status onto Vivienne from Solas or (as much as I'd hate to lose him) Cullen. Blackwall seems very unique, so while I know almost nothing about him and thus have nothing invested in him so far, he'd be the last straight male romance I'd take away to make room for our black woman. From my current point of view, Solas and Cullen seem a lot less unique.
Please, fellow Cullenites, don't smite me too hard.
I mean Viv probably would of been a romance option if she weren't black (as I don't think the fat cats would be okay with a non-romancable attractive to the "core EA demographic" character). That's not me accusing them of racism, that's me saying that I don't think she'd be allowed to exist as is if she weren't black.
And your point is that there's absolutely nothing heteronormative in that? Maybe you should start with checking out the meaning of that term.
my point is that its not worth commenting on given the setting, we see how important marriages are in the setting, especially in the human noble origin
And your point is that there's absolutely nothing heteronormative in that? Maybe you should start with checking out the meaning of that term.
Also, dynasties have had gay members throughout history.
Usually, they "took one for the team" and it wasn't an issue.
Homophobia as a specific thing has existed at many points in history but far from a consistent time or at different levels. In Davinchi's time, it was a fine-worthy offense and that was considered draconian by some.
my point is that its not worth commenting on given the setting, we see how important marriages are in the setting, especially in the human noble origin
In think Origins handles it pretty well with the Couslands.
They're aware, possibly, their son or daughter is gay but are encouraging them to marry anyway. Still, they don't mind them being in homosexual relationships.
Which is how most of history handled it.
It's not right but it's "believable" (as would, simply, the taboo against homosexuality never existing)
To me "non-issue" means that Sera's sexuality won't be a major issue in her life, not that she won't make it clear that she is only interested in women.
It is possible to have gay characters whose story doesnt revolve around their sexuality or how hard it is to live with it. Sera obviously has no issues that stem from her sexuality, and all of her harships come from elsewhere. That doesn't mean her sexuality isn't defined.
Then why is it so hard for people to except that Cassandra is only in to men and why do they keep saying she should be bi.
Then why is it so hard for people to except that Cassandra is only in to men and why do they keep saying she should be bi.
Because regardless of gender and orientation, they're assholes.
Then why is it so hard for people to except that Cassandra is only in to men and why do they keep saying she should be bi.
because they wanted her for a romance and are upset that she isn't avilible
Then why is it so hard for people to except that Cassandra is only in to men and why do they keep saying she should be bi.
because they wanted her for a romance and are upset that she isn't avilible
This.
Fan rage doesn't have to be motivated by anything other than fan rage.
yes there should, but completely cutting out straight stories is hardly the way to go.
I'm not saying we cut out straight stories. I'm saying we keep them to the minimum so other stories will fit in too.
It's one of the confusing things in the Dorian thread.
Where a lot of people think he'll mention he's gay like 30 times a day.
Or like Samantha Traynor and Straight Shepard's Friendship--which was just kind of weird.
I fully expect Sera's lesbian status to come up like once.
Male Flirt: So, do you like humans?
Sera: Yes, but not dudes.Male Flirt: Oh. Well, carry on then.
I'd rather it came up more than once, like a mention of finding a woman attractive in passing or a female partner she had in the past (that concept art of the fisting joke is something I really want to see in game).
I want the game the walk the line of making it clear that certain characters are gay and bisexual and having it come up multiple times but without the characters revolving around it or it being brought up constantly.
They had the right to make Mass Effect 3's ending the way they did.
I had the right to say it was unsatisfying and made me feel awful instead of triumphant.
Admittedly, gamers being who they are, took it too far.
That's why I think they should do it like movies, were they screen it to an audience before being released world wide to see the general reaction. There are a couple of movies out there whose endings got completely changed because the reaction from the viewers was very negative.
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