3344 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

I think part of why it's disappointing is that, even though we shouldn't depend on Bioware to be the one game company to do it (to give gay/lesbian players the 'extras' just once), the fact is, waiting for any other game company to even catch up to where Bioware is now will probably take at least another 5-10 years. And that's me being optimistic. If any mainstream, AAA game company was going to do it, was going to have at least an equal spread, it'd have been Bioware.

 

 

This is exactly how I feel.

[Willowhugger]

I'd rather spend some money for romance if I liked character than armor package for example. Varric for example would be on my shopping list depending on race-gating. And people spend money for dating sims so why not extra romance content? ^^

 

I figure it's the larger scope of these things.

 

EVERYONE will buy "Mark of the Assassin" or "Legacy."

Only those interested in romancing Varric will buy Varric.

[ElitePinecone]

There was mention about non companion nor advisor flirt.

 

Yes, but I don't think it will be with the jar of bees.

 

That would probably end horribly for everyone involved.

[Cassandra Saturn]

I thought that Bioware was actively trying to have more equal amounts of options for LGBT players.  However, it sounds like I misinterpreted "increased" representation with "equal" representation in the romances.  I assumed that we would not always receive less content than straight people, but it sounds like the options are "equal" content or "less" content in each game, which ultimately aggregates to "less" overall.

fixed that for you.

[daveliam]

fixed that for you.

 

Fixed what?

[Ianamus]

This is exactly how I feel.

 

If you don't mind me asking though: Is what matters to you actually having the options, or simply how it looks on paper when you tally up the LI's across games?

 

Basically, are you more interested in the actual content or the numbers it leaves in the statistics after the game is released?

[TheJediSaint]

Yes, but I don't think it will be with the jar of bees.

 

That would probably end horribly for everyone involved.

Love thy enemies.

[daveliam]

If you don't mind me asking though: Is what matters to you actually having the options, or simply how it looks on paper when you tally up the LI's across games?

 

Basically, are you more interested in the actual content or the numbers it leaves in the statistics after the game is released?

 

This isn't an "OR" in my opinion.  It's an "AND".  I'm interested in the content (quality) as well as the amount (quantity).

[ElitePinecone]

I thought that Bioware was actively trying to have more equal amounts of options for LGB players.  However, it sounds like I misinterpreted "increased" representation with "equal" representation in the romances.  I assumed that we would not always receive less content than straight people, but it sounds like the options are "equal" content or "less" content in each game, which ultimately aggregates to "less" overall.

 

I'm not being snarky here, but wasn't it always unrealistic to expect more options for lesbian or gay players over straight ones? I'm struggling to see how anyone could ever believe this could happen.

 

As progressive as Bioware and EA are, they're still operating in an industry where AAA titles are risky endeavours, and where thousands of jobs literally depend on making a game that sells as well as it possibly can.

 

The (admirable) sentiments of Allan and other devs aside, I just can't see how they could or would ever do that. The media reaction alone would be ridiculous.

[Ianamus]

This isn't an "OR" in my opinion.  It's an "AND".  I'm interested in the content (quality) as well as the amount (quantity).

 

That's not really what I was getting at. 

 

When I see things like your statistics you had up the other day about in how many games group X had the least LI's in and how many LI's were group Y overall, it just gets me thinking...

 

Is what people are looking for actually in-game content, or a piece of abstract statistical evidence that they are being treated "equally"?

 

It feels like the numbers, motivations and ideas mean more to people than what's actually there

[daveliam]

I'm not being snarky here, but wasn't it always unrealistic to expect more options for lesbian or gay players over straight ones? I'm struggling to see how anyone could ever believe this could happen.

 

As progressive as Bioware and EA are, they're still operating in an industry where AAA titles are risky endeavours, and where thousands of jobs literally depend on making a game that sells as well as it possibly can.

 

The (admirable) sentiments of Allan and other devs aside, I just can't see how they could or would ever do that. The media reaction alone would be ridiculous.

 

Not more overall, but perhaps more every once in a while since we get less more times than not.  That's more of my thinking.  Like, to me, it's not a big deal if there is a game where the "Sebastian" romance is a lesbian.

 

That's not really what I was getting at. 

 

When I see things like your statistics you had up the other day about in how many games group X had the least LI's in and how many LI's were group Y overall, it just gets me thinking...

 

Is what people are looking for actually in-game content, or a piece of abstract statistical evidence that they are being treated "equally"?

 

It feels like the numbers, motivations and ideas mean more to people than what's actually there

 

Numbers represent the extent to which the first one doesn't happen.  People want the content, but numbers allow you to demonstrate when the content isn't there and, particularly, the disparity in where the content gets distributed.

[Cassandra Saturn]

Fixed what?

you left out "T" for LGBT

[LiaraShepard]

 

 

It feels like the numbers, motivations and ideas mean more to people than what's actually there

 

What's actually there are obviously 4 great romances for straight female gamer and 2 great romances for the rest. They still have a higher replay value with more different playthroughs ( as long as I'm not convinced with gender and sexuality switching). 

[introverted_assassin]

First post on this site. No Viv. k. Waiting to see what's good with Viv's story. I can be satisfied with that. Actually I'm trying to wait on everything in general. Not gonna know how any of these romances REALLY work until Inquisition is in my console so...

[Lady Nuggins]

Understood. The DA2 approach is valid enough--I always said that, given the option of having more total romances, I would prefer we also include a broader representation of sexualities (as the DA2 approach, while fair and convenient for players, does NOT do that). The thing to remember is, if we did use DA2's approach, we would have the same number of romances... and your number of options would not change. You would have 2, at best, and the chances that any of those available might not be to your personal preference would also be exactly the same.

 

As it always is. There is always a chance you won't find a romance to your personal taste, and that includes the ones you already think might be (as once you meet them, that impression might rapidly change). We do not take a shotgun approach, after all, and try to make all our characters "broadly appealing" ...really, what does that even mean aside from pandering to stereotypes? We make characters, give them interesting stories, and include romance arcs which may or may not appeal to the individual player. We do our best, but, failing that, you thankfully still have the rest of the game.

 

Jumping back several pages to say, while I was a huge supporter of the DA2 approach and argued strongly in favor of playersexuality, after seeing the breakdown for DAI, I'm happy you guys went this route instead.  I'm excited to not only have as many f/f options as I had before, but to now have so many other options to explore with other characters.  Even if I'm sad that I didn't get the all options that I wanted, I'm excited to see the diverse range of stories you'll tell through all these characters.

[Icy Magebane]

I'm not being snarky here, but wasn't it always unrealistic to expect more options for lesbian or gay players over straight ones? I'm struggling to see how anyone could ever believe this could happen.

 

As progressive as Bioware and EA are, they're still operating in an industry where AAA titles are risky endeavours, and where thousands of jobs literally depend on making a game that sells as well as it possibly can.

 

The (admirable) sentiments of Allan and other devs aside, I just can't see how they could or would ever do that. The media reaction alone would be ridiculous.

Out of likes, but I agree.  There is too much at stake to gamble on the public widely accepting a game with an over-abundance of LGBT romances.  These things don't happen over night.  It takes time for attitudes to change, and although I feel that great progress has been made, I don't think it's reasonable to ask Bioware, the only company who seems truly dedicated to addressing this issue, to put it all on the line in an attempt to force public awareness and acceptance.  They have done a lot as it is.  More than any video game company has... they should not be condemned for exercising caution and taking it slow.

[daveliam]

you left out "T" for LGBT

 

On purpose because I wasn't talking about the community, I was talking about representations of various sexual orientations and "transgender" isn't a sexual orientation.  Transgender people can be straight, gay, or bisexual, so straight transgender women benefit from the large amount of straight/bi male LI's.

At least that's how my understanding of it works from my trans friends and trans forumites.  Do you think that this is an incorrect representation?  I'm always interested in hearing more about this.

[Ianamus]

What's actually there are obviously 4 great romances for straight female gamer and 2 great romances for the rest. They still have a higher replay value with more different playthroughs ( as long as I'm not convinced with gender and sexuality switching). 

 

But we haven't even played the game yet, we only know that because we follow the news about the game obsessively. 

 

They have already said that you won't know if a companion is available to you until a fair bit few the game. The average gay or lesbian gamer will play Inquisition and come out talking about how much they loved Josephine or Sera's romance, and talk to their friends who may have romanced Solas or Cullen. Most people don't replay the game many times, and won't ever have known how many options someone else had, because the only way to know really is to look it up online. 

 

The only people actually negatively affected by straight women getting a few more bonus options are the people here who deliberately look it up before the game is even released and make it a problem. 

[LiaraShepard]

But we haven't even played the game yet, we only know that because we follow the news about the game obsessively. 

 

They have already said that you won't know if a companion is available to you until a fair bit few the game. The average gay or lesbian gamer will play Inquisition and come out talking about how much they loved Josephine or Sera's romance, and talk to their friends who may have romanced Solas or Cullen. Most people don't replay the game many times, and won't ever have known how many options someone else had, because the only way to know really is to look it up online. 

 

The only people actually negatively affected by straight women getting a few more bonus options are the people here who deliberately look it up before the game is even released and make it a problem. 

 

well, I've replayed games very often. And it means a lot to me, to have different romance options. It's really something I care about. I even like to romance characters that aren't my favorites as long as I can romance them with my prefered gender.

[ElitePinecone]

What's actually there are obviously 4 great romances for straight female gamer and 2 great romances for the rest. They still have a higher replay value with more different playthroughs ( as long as I'm not convinced with gender and sexuality switching). 

 

This only affects an incredibly small number of their players, though.

 

50% or so of the people who start a Dragon Age game never finish it once, let alone multiple times. "Replay value" is something that only matters to (literally) a minority of their eventual audience.

 

How many people are going to run through more than one complete playthrough as a female character? 

[Sporothrix]

Out of likes, but I agree.  There is too much at stake to gamble on the public widely accepting a game with an over-abundance of LGBT romances.  These things don't happen over night.  It takes time for attitudes to change, and although I feel that great progress has been made, I don't think it's reasonable to ask Bioware, the only company who seems truly dedicated to addressing this issue, to put it all on the line in an attempt to force public awareness and acceptance.  They have done a lot as it is.  More than any video game company has... they should not be condemned for exercising caution and taking it slow.

 

Doesn't The Last of Us have teenage gay girl as one of its protagonists? Isn't that more bold move than giving gay people a bit more choices in optional romance content?

[LiaraShepard]

This only affects an incredibly small number of their players, though.

 

50% or so of the people who start a Dragon Age game never finish it once, let alone multiple times. "Replay value" is something that only matters to (literally) a minority of their eventual audience.

 

How many people are going to run through more than one complete playthrough as a female character? 

 

replaying isn't the same as finishing a game though. I often replay games without finishing them.

[daveliam]

But we haven't even played the game yet, we only know that because we follow the news about the game obsessively. 

 

They have already said that you won't know if a companion is available to you until a fair bit few the game. The average gay or lesbian gamer will play Inquisition and come out talking about how much they loved Josephine or Sera's romance, and talk to their friends who may have romanced Solas or Cullen. Most people don't replay the game many times, and won't ever have known how many options someone else had, because the only way to know really is to look it up online. 

 

The only people actually negatively affected by straight women getting a few more bonus options are the people here who deliberately look it up before the game is even released and make it a problem. 

 

Not knowing that you are getting less options =/= Getting less options is a problem

[Uirebhiril]

What's actually there are obviously 4 great romances for straight female gamer and 2 great romances for the rest. They still have a higher replay value with more different playthroughs ( as long as I'm not convinced with gender and sexuality switching). 

 

That's assuming "they" will want to replay that many times, or for those particular romances rather than switch to another gender or orientation to try a completely different character. Just because the options are there does not mean a specific group of people really have double anything except maybe in choices - which, ultimately, we all have. There are eight romances. We can choose to play for them, or not. But in the end we are all represented and all have a choice within that representation, and that's far more important to me than who has "extra."

[Icy Magebane]

Doesn't The Last of Us have teenage gay girl as one of its protagonists? Isn't that more bold move than giving gay people a bit more choices in optional romance content?

I dunno... lesbians seem to be pretty popular in media, so it's not really that big of a risk is it?  I doubt they would have made a game based around a gay male teenager... I certainly can't think of one.

 

Although I probably should have just said "one of the only companies."  My point is that it's uncommon, and therefore Bioware should be applauded for being at the forefront.  I don't see much of that going on, just talk about how they aren't doing enough.