Disappointment is cool, so is being upset. But I think it's important to look at it this way: everything is equal. There are two straights, two bisexuals, and two gays. In addition, there are two "bonus" romances, for straight humans and straight elves (both female).
Good. It's about time games started reflecting the 33% straight/33% bisexual/33% gay population composition of the world.
*snip*
Hey, I don't think you're being argumentative, and I thank you for your input. I was just trying to spark some more discussion to get some more info out of you, just to flesh out the subject some more. I kind of understood what you said before; however, I felt that DA2 was being dismissed unfairly (as Morrigan could be ignored and dismissed as well, but she did get a DLC around her at least, and was in promotion material, etc., unlike Anders), but now I see your view more clearly.
Let's not forget that there simply aren't enough women in the party to add extra LIs for those who wish to romance female characters. Cassandra, Josephine, and Sera were LIs already. Leliana is off limits because of the Warden, so that leaves only Vivienne. And if there are plot and character reasons that make a romance absolutely impossible with her, then that leaves nobody.
It seems like Cullen and Solas were the only remaining characters who could have romances added. And even then, only in a limited capacity. So yeah, it kind of sucks for the rest of us, but you can see all the constraints they were working within. I don't think we're looking at an "either straight women get bonus content or somebody else does" situation. I think we're looking at "either straight women get bonus content or nobody does."
*reads crazy assumptions about Bioware using racist stereotypes*
...sometimes I wonder why Bioware even bothers to talk to its fan base...
Seriously, we finally get a beautiful female companion who isn't a love interest in a big AAA title and people complain that she is a stereotype because she is black.
Uh huh. Wow.
Impressive Bioware. And here I thought my expectations couldn't possibly get any lower.
*reads crazy assumptions about Bioware using racist stereotypes*
...sometimes I wonder why Bioware even bothers to talk to its fan base...
Well, while Viv is a huge assumption which I personally don't get, as we don't know her story fully, and strong, independent woman seems to be something more across the board, something that society has encouraged, so I don't see how that is a stereotype when it is encouraged on all women.
However, Jacob did fit pretty well, and that one white guy from Jade Empire, so it's not like it hasn't been done before...
*snip* And if there are plot and character reasons that make a romance absolutely impossible with her, then that leaves nobody.
It seems like Cullen and Solas were the only remaining characters who could have romances added. *snip*
Exactly, she could be like Aveline or Samara. Also, Cullen and Solas are like Sebastian, extra romance for female PCs.
As Mike said, there were initially six romances, and then two later added when more time was given them (Cullen and Solas, it seems).
Disappointment is cool, so is being upset. But I think it's important to look at it this way: everything is equal. There are two straights, two bisexuals, and two gays. In addition, there are two "bonus" romances, for straight humans and straight elves (both female).
I mean, you can look at it in the way that Bioware gave straight people more options, but that would be a simplification. They gave straight women more options if they happen to be playing one of two races. Many will be playing humans, it's true, but how many players of the game will play as a female elf? A minority.
Everyone has at least two options. There could have been only six romances, but the developers had the time to make more content, and for that I am supremely happy. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Well it´s not equal if you count statistics. Gay community (counting bi in it) gets the most LI options compared to their appearance in population.
I don't understand why straight people should get more options because they're the majority. You'd need a number of romances in the 100s or 1000s to even implement the percentages.
Think of it like pie. If there was a straight pie and a gay pie, and everybody got a slice from whatever pie they wanted, then the straight pie would need to be bigger because more people are going to eat from it.
But that's not how it works with this game. Here, everybody gets their own pies, one of each, and they can eat whichever one they want. Or both. The gay pies wouldn't need to be smaller because less people are interested in eating it.
What were we talking about again?
Oh, yeah. This new character renders black characters a lot better. I honestly had no idea that Isabela was supposed to be black. She looked more northern African (i.e., Bedouin or Berber), Middle Eastern (specifically Arab or Persian), or even South Asian (i.e. Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, etc., though Isabela most closely resembles a person of Indian ethnicity). Gainer might've said she was black, but there is a wide berth between how her appearance in game and a description from a writer. If she is black, then I'm curious to see the original intention. Maybe we'll get to see what the devs had in mind w/ Isabela if she makes an appearance in DA:I.Considering that the previous engines used for these games did not in general render people of color very well, it's hard to draw any conclusions about how well BioWare (Dragon Age team in particular) handles people of color. Like a previous poster, I thought Isabela was dark-skinned Spanish, perhaps with some Moorish ancestry (yes, she's from Rivain in Thedas), but definitely closer to European than African in her heritage.
You can see that Viv is a beautiful woman clearly intended to look more African. This engine, for the first time, will allow us to actually make characters who look truly, believably African. And I expect to see more NPCs that look it running around then we had in games past. Frankly, I was glad we didn't have them before because the engine made them look awful. This one pulls it off awesomely and realistically. Now, we can see what BioWare is really intending Thedas to look like ethnically.
So we'll have a better idea about how BioWare intends to handle that issue.
Yeah, BW missed their mark b/c they failed to make a character romanceable. Her character is totally ruined b/c she's not bangable.Too bad she isn't romancable. I felt Bioware missed the mark with her.
The idea that she's an independent black woman who needs no man would imply that:
A. She doesn't have a man.
B. She doesn't have a woman.
C. She doesn't want one but it's just not the Inquisitor.
All we know is, this.
Let's not forget that there simply aren't enough women in the party to add extra LIs for those who wish to romance female characters. Cassandra, Josephine, and Sera were LIs already. Leliana is off limits because of the Warden, so that leaves only Vivienne. And if there are plot and character reasons that make a romance absolutely impossible with her, then that leaves nobody.
It seems like Cullen and Solas were the only remaining characters who could have romances added. And even then, only in a limited capacity. So yeah, it kind of sucks for the rest of us, but you can see all the constraints they were working within. I don't think we're looking at an "either straight women get bonus content or somebody else does" situation. I think we're looking at "either straight women get bonus content or nobody does."
I get what you're saying, but why make BOTH of the extras straight? Of course with the spread, there weren't extra women to make LIs, but I still don't understand why Cullen and Solas both needed to be straight. Maybe we'll find out in the game, or maybe there will be no explanation beyond "resources".
I guess for now I'll enjoy Dorian and dream of a day when those magical "extra resources" go toward giving people in the LGBT community extra content. It'll happen one day, right?
What food was she compared to and who made the comparison?
http://en.wikipedia....Ortolan_bunting
So she's basically a bird who is confined in darkness which makes her eat and eat, then drowned in alcohol and roasted
I suppose the whole affair comes across as much more positive if you look at it this way:
Everyone gets at least two options - which is no less than they got in DAO and DA2 (with gay and lesbian PCs getting more than they did in DAO).
So I certainly wouldn't say this is a step back.
Well it´s not equal if you count statistics. Gay community (counting bi in it) gets the most LI options compared to their appearance in population.
Not everyone who wants a gay romance is gay person.
Not every gay person wants exclusively a gay romance.
http://en.wikipedia....Ortolan_bunting
So she's basically a bird who is confined in darkness which makes her eat and eat, then drowned in alcohol and roasted
Which, by all accounts, is totally delicious.
http://en.wikipedia....Ortolan_bunting
So she's basically a bird who is confined in darkness which makes her eat and eat, then drowned in alcohol and roasted
It's most likely because of the over-the-topness of the dish.
Some of these post are so bitter and narrow-minded I can't actually believe people are upset THIS much just by not having an opportunity to f**k or romance digital character. How does 'straight female players have more option' links directly into 'privilege', 'inequality' or whatever you want to call them?? I'm truly lost. I'm gay guy born and raised in this oppresive patriarchal shithole that is korea and I'm just happy that at least in game that I can truly be myself. I appreaciate it that developers like bioware, while not perfect, is at least trying. But some people just need to start complain and accuse bioware of not being fair as soon as they find something they can't f**k. Like, some of yall take this for granted. Jesus.
Some of these post are so bitter and narrow-minded I can't actually believe people are upset THIS much just by not having an opportunity to f**k or romance digital character. How does 'straight female players have more option' links directly into 'privilege', 'inequality' or whatever you want to call them?? I'm truly lost. I'm gay guy born and raised in this oppresive patriarchal shithole that is korea and I'm just happy that at least in game that I can truly be myself. I appreaciate it that developers like bioware, while not perfect, is at least trying. But some people just need to start complain and accuse bioware of not being fair as soon as they find something they can't f**k. Like, some of yall take this for granted. Jesus.
This. Especially since that many gay guys just want more romances just for the sake of having more numbers and not because they particularly enjoy the character. I remember way back when Solas was first released and both straight women and gay guys would try to pass him from one group to the other; moreso in the gay guys' case. And with Blackwall, no one particularly cared about him and were even saying that they don't want to be with someone who's calling was near and was going to die soon. Though to be fair, no one really paid much attention to Vivienne either because she was too "arrogant" and she wasn't someone they "preferred."
So IMO as a gay male, f**k anyone who cares about the numbers and b*****s about simple things like this.
Sometimes, I get the feeling I'm the only one who cares about the story when I see people getting so worked up over some pixels.
And all these waves of romance threads...
I know this is BSN but...wow!
I get what you're saying, but why make BOTH of the extras straight? Of course with the spread, there weren't extra women to make LIs, but I still don't understand why Cullen and Solas both needed to be straight. Maybe we'll find out in the game, or maybe there will be no explanation beyond "resources".
I guess for now I'll enjoy Dorian and dream of a day when those magical "extra resources" go toward giving people in the LGBT community extra content. It'll happen one day, right?
Cullen was straight because he always ways, he didn't mention being in love with male Magi Wardens back in origins, and they didn't reconnect his sexuality in DA2 when they were being progressive and making everyone bi. Solas was probably made straight so that straight female elves could have someone who is a elf to romance. Lore wise Elves tend to stick to Elves when picking a mate for the most part because they want to continue the Elf Race, something that doesn't happen if the Elf catches human/dwarven fever *looks at Merrill and Fenris then laughs* So it makes sense from a lore perspective.
I was orginally going to respond some things I've seen here because I think people don't necessarily understand some of the same stereotypes that apply to the white western women don't apply to women of color. Kerry Washington spoke about this during her promotion of Django Unchained as a response to her damseled character in that it was acutally not a typical characterization for black american women.
"I know it's not the most feminist idea to be a woman in a tower wanting to be rescued, but for a woman of color in this country, we've never been afforded that fairy tale because of how the black family was ripped apart [during slavery]," Washington said. "I really saw the value of having a story that empowers the African American man to do something chivalrous for the African American woman, because that hasn't been an idea that has held women back in the culture — it's something we've never been allowed to dream about."
That being said there are caricatures that I belive Samahl was loosely refering to, i.e., the sapphire and the jezebel, I think those caricatures are what drives these fears. If you've got time, please read up on them and attempt to see where those fears are coming from. I don't think Vivienne will be "sapphire-lite." I think she'll be interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing her character in action. I would also encourage you, if you're at all curious and look up Womanism as a lens to understanding black feminist thought and feelings of alienation. Not trying to be condescending or rude, just hoping to help.
Iron Bull is the equivalent of a knight for the Qunari.
Hmm, given Iron Bull is Ben Hassrath, I'd say he's more the equivalent to a secret agent or a spy.
But in his case, a burnt-out agent who's sorta "gone native"
I suppose the whole affair comes across as much more positive if you look at it this way:
Everyone gets at least two options - which is no less than they got in DAO and DA2 (with gay and lesbian PCs getting more than they did in DAO).
So I certainly wouldn't say this is a step back.
Can't like twice, so I'll just quote and say 'this"
I get what you're saying, but why make BOTH of the extras straight? Of course with the spread, there weren't extra women to make LIs, but I still don't understand why Cullen and Solas both needed to be straight. Maybe we'll find out in the game, or maybe there will be no explanation beyond "resources".
I guess for now I'll enjoy Dorian and dream of a day when those magical "extra resources" go toward giving people in the LGBT community extra content. It'll happen one day, right?
I know, I wish that one of them had been gay instead. But not knowing the characters well yet, none of us can say. Since they were fully fleshed-out characters before they got LI status, it's possible that their writers had decided "this character is definitely straight" well ahead of time, and it was too late to go back and rewrite things.
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