16 réponses à ce sujet

[Catara1]

My character is a cleric/fighter/wizard and the first time I attempted to play the game, all of my wizard spells except for the cantrips, seemed to have just disappeared well into ACT I. I uninstalled and reinstalled the game hoping to fix the problem only to have issues patching it again as Atari had shut down the server. I finally have been able to manually patch the game completely but all of my saved games had been deleted and now I have to start over . I was wondering if anyone has any advise on this issue as I don't want to multiclass if it is not going to work.

Thank you!

[Tchos]

You didn't mention anything about the class icon spell lists.  As a fighter/cleric/wizard, you should have two separate "tabs" in the spellbook for the spells of the cleric and the spells of the wizard.  Before proceeding, please confirm that you've checked both of those.

[Dann-J]

Also; cleric/fighter/wizard must be one of the worst multiclass combinations possible. Clerics rely on wisdom and charisma, fighters on strength and constitution, and wizards on intelligence. You'd be splitting your ability points across too many ability scores.

 

It's generally better to multiclass with classes that compliment each other. Monks and clerics both benefit from high wisdom scores. Rogues and wizards both benefit from high intelligence. Rogues and rangers both benefit from high dexterity. Sorcerors and clerics both benefit from high charisma. Those sorts of combinations avoid the need to split ability points across too many ability scores.

 

If you want to play as a fighter / spell caster, then you're either better off being a pure cleric and using buffing spells, or taking a prestige class like Eldritch Knight, Warpriest or Storm Lord which will give a caster some fighter-like benefits while minimising the impact on spell progression.

[Luminus]

An armored Cleric/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight can work as well. Proficiencies, Divine feats and armored casting with Still Spell.

You only need STR, CON and CHA, dump the rest and use buffs. An armored sorcerer with Mirror Images and Isaacs is scary.

Also your build reminds me of the Fighter/Cleric/Mage multiclass from the Infinity Engine games. Unfortunately those combinations don't work very good in 3.5E, without Prestige Classes or changing the builds.

[Jfoxtail]

I will ask an obvious question.

 

Given your stat spread what what the numeric value of INT ? Was it 11 ? Higher ? If its only 10 as I suspect - it means you will only ever cast cantrips which are zero level spells.

 

If you want to cast i.e. 8 level spells you need a natural 18 in INT for arcane spells.

 

The same is true of Cleric and wisdom. Number over ten = level of spell you can cast.

 

Etc.

 

There are too many good builds (and a search engine I believe) to spell out her; but the above advice is very good. Look for "synergistic" builds that exaggerate the benefits of your primary stat (or maybe primary and secondary stats).

 

Example for Wizard might be... Wizard / Eldritch Knight / Swashbuckler / Duelist

 

Example for Cleric is Divine Champion...etc etc

[Arkalezth]

Wizards use intelligence to cast. Sorcerers use charisma.

I recommend against duelist on wizards and divine champion on clerics.

[Luminus]

Indeed, Duelist + Wizard = Bad, unless you focus on melee and just use buffs.
And Cleric + Divine Champion is also bad. Warpriest is pretty meh as well.

In vanilla, Clerics work best with Stormlord or just pure. Same with Favored Souls.

[Jfoxtail]

Um okay.. but those are opinions...  whatever <shrug>

 

There are many good builds as suggested..... it hardly invalidates what I posted.

 

Wizards - Duelists : the rationale being that the Feat - Canny Defense uses the INT stat modifier to calculate AC when unarmored which is what Wizards are/may be. To my point where it would exaggerate the benefits of the primary Stat INT to contribute to the overall build.

 

Cleric - Divine Champion : the rationale that Cleric have a "respectable Charisma level" (~12 ~ 14) to turn undead and therefore there are some synergistic benefits to exaggerate a secondary stat like Charisma to obtain Feat benefits like Lay on Hands or Smite. 

 

They may not be classic min / max statistic power builds but they serve point as to my example.

 

The <OP> did not ask what is the best possible power build ; its a mute question anyway. There are plenty of effective builds that can be played in almost any manner.

[Arkalezth]

Um okay.. but those are opinions...

Yes, they are. So?

The OP didn't ask for ANY build at all; s/he just merely asked about an issue with spells. And yes, you can play whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it's going to be a good idea mechanically.

Clerics and wizards are casters. Neither duelist nor DC advance spellcasting, and that's a serious drawback, whereas the possible benefits aren't that spectacular.

Duelist gives -some- AC -if- unarmoured and unshielded. Armoured wizards aside, a few duelist levels may have some use in epic, but other than that, more and stronger spells is always a better option. Besides, if you really need duelist to survive, you're doing something wrong in the first place. Yes, technically, duelist and wizard have some synergy, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to combine them. Not if you have to sacrifice more important things, at least.

Clerics don't need charisma at all, but either way, you mention Turn Undead, Lay on Hands and Smite. DC doesn't advance TU (which is not that great anyway, but still), clerics can smite with the right domains (not that smiting is that great either), and about Lay on Hands... well, that's a pretty laughable ability when you can have the clerical spell list at your disposal. You can absolutely play a cleric/DC, but it's not something I'd suggest, and frankly, I'm not seeing a lot of synergy in practice in that example.

I know what you mean: You're suggesting to look for synergy and mentioned two examples. Fine, you've made your point, but I don't see anything wrong with me or Luminus suggesting not to use those particular examples.

[Jfoxtail]

Well we agree to disagree. <cheers> 

 

I suppose I simply would not have called out the examples as = bad. I might of suggested these are some examples and there are even more powerful combinations.

 

The <op? posted 

the first time I attempted to play the game,

 

I assume its through the Official Campaign and then maybe on to other community / expansion to ~ 30ish.

 

You can easily breeze through the OC's with a combination I suggested. Cleric Divine Champion for example.

 

This suggestion (below) is frankly a very fun build to play. There are numerous "shortfalls" with it I suppose but I certainly had no issues with a melee buffer and companions.

 

The character was an "Arcane Pirate" from a role play perspective with that wonky "swashbucker voice set" so famous in both games. 

 

Wizard / Eldritch Knight / Swashbuckler / Duelist

[GCoyote]

My first play through the OC I had no idea what I was doing and did zero research.  Ended up with a rogue/harper agent/neverwinter nine/?.  Didn't matter. On normal difficulty, the OC just isn't that hard.  Concentrate on having FUN.

[Thorsson64]

Wizard / Eldritch Knight / Swashbuckler / Duelist

 

It works fine, but there are more powerful Wizards. Here's one I did earlier: Elder Blade

[Luminus]

An Swashbuckler/Wizard/Eldritch Knight is a classic combination.
Duelist is completely unecessary.
It could work if you only dipped into Wizard for some of the buffs.

That small bonus on AC from INT is nothing compared to Persistent Haste, Premonition, Mirror Images, Displacement etc.

Technically, you can make ANY build work. You can make a Barbarian/Wizardand still have fun. Hell, there's an Barbarian Archmage in lore.
Murial. http://forgottenreal...com/wiki/Murial
Or a Monk/Sorcerer.

But the general rule is, try not to waste caster levels.

For example, a Fighter/Cleric/Wizard is possible if you enable the Mystic Theurge prestige class manually. Though you don't need Fighter levels.

But yes, as it has been said, Divine Champion is awful for a Cleric. You set caster levels on fire to do some crappy smiting and get lay on hands as well as higher BAB?
Divine Power, Heal/Regenerate and the Destruction Domain do those for free.

It was meant as a Fighter PrC, mimicking some Paladin abilities but for any alignment.

This advice isn't just for the OC. It's advice for the other Campaigns, modules or PWs as well. Some things just work better than others in NwN2 and DnD and that's the nature of the beast.

And teaching someone the ropes of building (not necessarily powerbuilding) will only do good. It increases the chances of surviving as well as having more fun (not dying), especially on PWs.

[Thorsson64]

An Swashbuckler/Wizard/Eldritch Knight is a classic combination.
Duelist is completely unecessary.
It could work if you only dipped into Wizard for some of the buffs.

That small bonus on AC from INT is nothing compared to Persistent Haste, Premonition, Mirror Images, Displacement etc.

 

The last sentence is true, but you left out a few things:

 

1. You can still get Persistent Haste, Premonition, etc. with Duelist in the mix

2. Mirror Image works particularly well with high AC, and Duelist helps that

3. Duelist also adds extra damage, which helps melee

4. Duelist also increases BAB/AB, which helps melee

 

If you're going to melee then some Duelist works fine. What exactly are you losing? It's not extra spells - more levels don't gain extra spells past caster level 20. DC is the only thing, but a Gish will rely on Buffs and No Save spells.

[Arkalezth]

As I said, it's decent in epic, once you have all the spellcasting you need, but not before that. It's not spectacular, but none of the alternatives are.

3. Duelist also adds extra damage, which helps melee

If using a single one-handed weapon, and in that case, I'd rather go STR based and armoured.

4. Duelist also increases BAB/AB, which helps melee

Well, it has high BAB, but that's not exclusive to the class.

Canny defence is pretty much the only benefit. If you're going to reach epic levels, can spare a couple of feats and don't use armour, it's okay, but not earth-shaking and not a priority. So let's reword my previous statement as "I don't recommend duelist except under the right circumstances (and even then, I don't exactly recommend it, but not against it either)".

[Luminus]

The last sentence is true, but you left out a few things:

 

1. You can still get Persistent Haste, Premonition, etc. with Duelist in the mix

2. Mirror Image works particularly well with high AC, and Duelist helps that

3. Duelist also adds extra damage, which helps melee

4. Duelist also increases BAB/AB, which helps melee

 

If you're going to melee then some Duelist works fine. What exactly are you losing? It's not extra spells - more levels don't gain extra spells past caster level 20. DC is the only thing, but a Gish will rely on Buffs and No Save spells.

Yes, I was talking about the OC or levels up to 20.
Pretty much anything works in epic. Even a Cleric 20/Divine Champion 10 does the job.
Even a Wizard 20/Cleric 10 or Wizard 20/Sorcerer 10.

[Thorsson64]

Guys if you're talking pre-Epic, then you should say so. MotB follows on from the OC and there you start at 18.

 

You can just about play anything in the OC, it's so easy.

 

@Ark: you can always 2H a finessable weapon if you're small enough...