Indeed. Atlus can finally hop off Persona 4's nuts.
That would also be appreciated.
P3 was milked pretty hard too but not enough to get a goddamn dancing game. I mean sheesh.
That and at least Persona 3's milking gave us an female protag. P4 was just 
Guest_Puddi III_*
Let's stop talking about milking Persona games' nuts, okay?
Puddikoma is always the voice of reason.
Let's stop talking about milking Persona games' nuts, okay?
Awww. Fine mom.
Grind is just doing the same thing over and over again, traditionally that meant you would go back to earlier parts of the dungeons to kill the same mobs again and again, in order to reach a high enough level to kill the boss. Maybe more abstractly you could just call it "a feeling of repetition."
In League of Legends, or Skyrim, you very frequently do the same thing over and over again. In League of Legends, you are forced to play the exact same map and fight against the same randomly generated group of opposing players. In the case of LoL, it's not "to progress," it's not even to do anything at all except the same thing again, and again.
For Skyrim I don't know I was mercilessly slaughtered by some giant dragon at one point, it was lame, I didn't enjoy myself going, oh maybe I should go find some better armor or weapons or stats or something. Maybe it was technically possible to beat him then, but really Skyrim in general had lots of filler, once you conquered one bandit tower you basically conquered them all.
No, a grind is doing the same task over and over again using the same strategy over and over again. With that definition, LoL does not fall in that category. As much as I hate that game, even I know that your opponents aren't randomly generated and you can't use the same tactics or strategy over and over again. Different players use different heroes with different tactics, meaning you need to adapt and change strategies on the fly in order to win. That's not a grind.
Seems you don't understand Skyrim or it simply isn't the game for you. Skyrim is actually widely known and praised for the "lots of filler". That "filler" content is always of high quality in the Elder Scrolls games and in many cases even better than the main quest (especially in Skyrim, Jesus Christ the main quest in that game is boring).
Skyrim is all about exploring and doing what YOU want to do. If you don't like killing dragons you don't have to, you can completely skip all dragon content in the game. if you don't like fighting bandits you don't have to, you can completely avoid combat in that game (and still gain experience and level-up!). Basically in Skyrim, everything is possible but nothing is required, you can do whatever you want whenever you want (even more so with mods!), meaning there is absolutely no grind in Skyrim.
Edit: Seems to me you are stuck in linear thinking, which is not surprising cause you mostly play Japanese games and those are linear as hell. But western RPGs are different, they are often more open and give you more freedom. That's what most western RPG fans like so much about these games, the openness and freedom, not being forced to follow a linear path and having to grind through repetitive battles in order to level up and be able to continue in the main quest, which is what you do in most Japanese RPGs.
No, a grind is doing the same task over and over again using the same strategy over and over again.
Ehm..... yeah... seems like splitting hairs there. There's really nothing saying you aren't using different strategies to level in a Japanese games or whatever either, I might swap out Cloud, or level the Knights of the Round Materia a bunch or... who knows. I would still call that grinding if the narrative or artistic elements are all redundant.
Seems you don't understand Skyrim or it simply isn't the game for you. Skyrim is actually widely known and praised for the "lots of filler". That "filler" content is always of high quality in the Elder Scrolls games and in many cases even better than the main quest (especially in Skyrim, Jesus Christ the main quest in that game is boring).
Skyrim is all about exploring and doing what YOU want to do. If you don't like killing dragons you don't have to, you can completely skip all dragon content in the game. if you don't like fighting bandits you don't have to, you can completely avoid combat in that game (and still gain experience and level-up!). Basically in Skyrim, everything is possible but nothing is required, you can do whatever you want whenever you want (even more so with mods!), meaning there is absolutely no grind in Skyrim.
A few things, 1) Morrowind was vastly superior, and also had a virtually non-existent main quest 2) whether the side content or main content is good doesn't make a difference to me at this point, it's functionally the same kind of experience, only the labels differ 3) I had my 60 hours of Skyrim or whatever, not saying it's bad really.
However, there is just no wow factor in 40% of Skyrim because it's most trees and rocks, they just aren't going to be exciting. Skyrim had just enough kind of linear questing as many Japanese games (Dark Brotherhood, Imperial vs. Whitecloaks, warrior guild, mage guild.) It's kind of an inefficient pleasure though IMO, if the budget is high enough you can make an everything game like Skyrim or in some ways what DA;I may be. Minus those linear portions, Skyrim starts to look basically like a really expensive roguelike, and I'm pretty sure that would not have sold 20 million copies.
Indeed. Atlus can finally hop off Persona 3/4's nuts.
Fixed that for ya.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Here is a question. Do Japanese developers make shooters that require tactical thinking to complete a goal? The reason I ask this is because I am tired of the magic/sword setting which seems to be common in the games I played coming from them. Not saying all are like that which is why I am asking the question.
Here is a question. Do Japanese developers make shooters that require tactical thinking to complete a goal? The reason I ask this is because I am tired of the magic/sword setting which seems to be common in the games I played coming from them. Not saying all are like that which is why I am asking the question.
You can kill things with a fan in P4, better then shooters right there.
You can kill things with a fan in P4, better then shooters right there.
No, it's not. I would prefer to kill it about 500 yards away with my Sniper Rifle. /shrug I also don't like turn based combat. I prefer action based combat.
Here's another question -- Do western developers make shooters that require tactical thinking? Can't really think of any aside from spunkgarglewee-wee/self-proclaimed "realistic" shooters. Just sayin'
There is the Arma series I can't play because my comp stinks.
Arma is not really realistic, it's a shooter though.
Arma is not really realistic, it's a shooter though.
I am just going off what I have heard, and by tactical I mean real people. "Jimmy you take the door. Bob cover him." etc... It seems only Western games have that.
Japan does not have real people, semi-confirmed rumour.
Japan does not have real people, semi-confirmed rumour.
I knew it. Cyborgs do exist!
Japanese > Western games?
No. It is pretty obvious who weathered the seventh gen better.
Going by the sales numbers, perhaps the people you're interacting with aren't representative of gaming consumers?
Sales does not indicate quality.
Metal Gear Solid is basically a tactical shooter now, so there's that -- "It should be pointed out before some wise-guy gets the ideaof jumping down my throat, that not all shooters adhere to these tired tropes, but neither does Japanese games, you see."
The reason why I added the above statement to my post is because the other poster implicated in his own post that Japan only make games, involving dudes and dudettes trying to kill Satan in a fantasy settig -- They make psychological horror games like Silent Hill or Fatal Frame or fun action games like the ones by Platinum, even neat little standalones like ICO or Shadow of the Colossus, then you have Hideo Kojima whose games are essentially drenched in western narrative tropes, mixed in with some eastern stuff.
The main point is that in the end -- Quality is defined by the designer's style and not where he comes from I'd say. Some shooters are good, many are not, I think that counts for any genre.
I totally spaced Metal Gear solid games, but I know they made more then one style of game which is why I asked. To me, the actual game play and story mechanics defines if it is a Western or Japanese game. Not who made it. Case in point, Dark Souls 2 which many consider to be an excellent Western RPG even though it's made in Japan.
I totally spaced Metal Gear solid games, but I know they made more then one style of game which is why I asked. To me, the actual game play and story mechanics defines if it is a Western or Japanese game. Not who made it. Case in point, Dark Souls 2 which many consider to be an excellent Western RPG even though it's made in Japan.
Your question felt more or less like a presumptuous implication, phrased as a question. But, anyway, that's not what I said -- What I said is what defines quality and then it doesn't really matter if it's from the one and the other side of the globe-- Besides your point a bit contradictory in of itself -- Dark Souls is made with a prominent western stylistic mindset, with a very Japanese inspired-narrative, but the developers are ultimately Japanese -- in a similar fashion to that of Metal Gear. So we have to ask then.. is it because Dark Souls are made by Japanese developers that makes it good? Or could it just be the style, writing, and the design? You know.. like pretty much any genre.
Your question felt more or less like a presumptuous implication, phrased as a question. But, anyway, that's not what I said -- What I said is what defines quality and then it doesn't really matter if it's from the one and the other side of the globe-- Besides your point a bit contradictory in of itself -- Dark Souls is made with a prominent western stylistic mindset, but the developers are Japanese, in a similar fashion to that of Metal Gear. So we have to ask then.. is it because Dark Souls are made by Japanese developers that makes it good? Or could it just be the style, writing, and the design? You know.. like pretty much any genre.
That is just how I type for the first part since I am never 100% sure on anything. I like to leave room just in the off chance I am wrong. /shrug
I get that you are saying quality matters most and not where it comes from, but not a lot think that way, so the natural inclination for most is to categorize it which is I what I did. Everything falls into a category whether you like it or not. It is how the world works.
That is just how I type for the first part since I am never 100% sure on anything. I like to leave room just in the off chance I am wrong. /shrug
I get that you are saying quality matters most and not where it comes from, but not a lot think that way, so the natural inclination for most is to categorize it which is I what I did. Everything falls into a category whether you like it or not. It is how the world works.
Well, the important thing is that you realized it yourself, I'd say.
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