239 réponses à ce sujet

[Melra]

I usually dislike Japanese games, though I usually find it hard to take most of their creations seriously. Only games I "like" are on consoles and I like them cause of their stories. Console gameplay I generally dislike as well, so they have little to offer for me, unless I am watching a walkthrough.

[fchopin]

I call the Zelda games I played RPG.

[s17tabris]

Haven't played many Japanese games ever since I switched from console (PS1 and PS2) to PC exclusively.  The ones I've played and enjoyed recently are the Ys games and Recettear.  It doesn't help when some of those Japanese games, particularly the ones from big publishers, are not available in my region on Steam.

 

As for the games themselves, particularly RPGs, I prefer western.  It's different when it comes to the music, the ones that I loved are from Japanese games (Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, Ys, etc.).  I like some music from western games, but IMO, they're not as memorable as the ones from the Japanese games I've played.

[The Heretic of Time]

I call the Zelda games I played RPG.

 

You can call them whatever you want, but they still aren't RPGs though.

[Ravensword]

Zelda series are adventure games.

[Dr.Fumbles]

Zelda series are adventure games.

 

Close to RPGs, but not quite there. I was also thinking action RPG as well.

[The Heretic of Time]

I understand the confusion about Zelda's genre though. I mean after all you do collect items, upgrade weapons, you have town hubs where you can buy (and sometime sell) items, you grow in strength as you collect more hearts and expand your magic bar and hell, you can even rename Link to a name of your own choosing in almost all Zelda games.

 

I get why people think Zelda is an RPG or action-RPG, but it's not.

[Dr.Fumbles]

I understand the confusion about Zelda's genre though. I mean after all you do collect items, upgrade weapons, you have town hubs where you can buy (and sometime sell) items, you grow in strength as you collect more hearts and expand your magic bar and hell, you can even rename Link to a name of your own choosing in almost all Zelda games.

 

I get why people think Zelda is an RPG or action-RPG, but it's not.

 

What technically separates an Adventure game from a RPG? It can't be how the story plays out.

[The Heretic of Time]

Character progression in terms of leveling up and increasing stats or perks by your own choosing. More importantly; if you can actually roleplay your character, in other words; choosing the role of your character in terms of class, gear and/or personality. JRPGs are often lacking in this department, but most of the JRPGs still give enough freedom in tinkering with your character and outfitting him/her to be considered an RPG.

 

RPGs originally come from the traditional pens-n-paper roleplaying games, where basically a storyteller tells and interactive story and the players can interact with that story as their characters through a bunch of rules and simple mechanics, often linked to a character sheet with stats and a bunch of dice. The early RPG videogames tried to mimic this concept and bring it to a digital medium. The game tells a story and you as the player get to create your own character and interact with the story through your character. This happens through interactive dialogue, making choices with consequences and choosing where you go and what gear and spells you use.

JRPGs are a simplified version of that, where often the protagonist is already created by the developers and you simply get to tinker around with him and give him different weapons and outfits. Some western RPGs also took out the character creation aspect (The Witcher), but even without the character creation it's still an RPG because you get to choose what role your character plays in the game/story. The Witcher allows you to decide how to develop Geralt, you choose is stats and fighting styles as he levels up and you get to make key decisions that influence Geralt's personality and the progression of the story. During the game Geralt keeps a personal journal with him and that journal will start filling up as you do quests. The content of the journal and the way Geralt sees things will depend on the choices you made during the game.

 

This is what defines an RPG and Zelda has almost none of that.

[Dr.Fumbles]

Hmm. Makes sense because I always considered Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, even Uncharted series to be adventure games. Zelda was always in between probably because of the Fantasy setting.

[General TSAR]

Can't believe none of you lot brought up the Ace Combat games, I am disappoint. 

[Dr.Fumbles]

Can't believe none of you lot brought up the Ace Combat games, I am disappoint. 

 

I have not played that title in a long time. I guess flying a plane gets boring after awhile.

[Seraphim24]

I'm entirely sure that it is a very good thing and it's something I'd like to see return to Persona and other JRPGs.
The fact that X is open world and it isn't bound to any continued overarching story makes it easier to implement such variety of customization which is always a plus in my book.
 
I think you are as well -- Let's not try to steer this thread towards "JRPGs vs Western RPGs" discussion, for several reasons, among them being that it won't end well.

 

I already said "why are we doing this experiment again?" It started somewhere in the middle, anyway, I don't really care about it. My only point is just all Japanese games whatever their flavor against all western games, RPGs and their terminology isn't my main interest here.

 

It just feels like western gaming feels tighter and tighter, more and more tepid and frenzied at the same time. Last of Us was released (which frankly seemed kind of just above average, nothing special), and within 1 year they had already announced a remaster. If that doesn't feel like a shortage of exciting games, I don't what does. The arms race with consoles and budgets and cinematic experiences has drowned genuinely creative and original concepts. Meanwhile, you can still find interesting one-off games like Rune Factory or whatever on the 3ds because it doesn't cost a fortune to make a game for it, but many gamers don't want to bother with non PC gaming so....

 

It smells like desperation in some ways, every game keeps getting delayed, there's a whole bunch of features, there's a whole bunch of complaining, more features/complaining/exclusives/complaining/exclusives/complaining/internet rage/internet owning/this issue that issue. Somewhere, deep, deep down beneath the explosion of material there's a video game to play, every once in awhile.

[Ravensword]

Close to RPGs, but not quite there. I was also thinking action RPG as well.

It gets a bit close to that definition, but not quite there yet.

[Cyonan]

I already said "why are we doing this experiment again?" It started somewhere in the middle, anyway, I don't really care about it. My only point is just all Japanese games whatever their flavor against all western games, RPGs and their terminology isn't my main interest here.

 

It just feels like western gaming feels tighter and tighter, more and more tepid and frenzied at the same time. Last of Us was released (which frankly seemed kind of just above average, nothing special), and within 1 year they had already announced a remaster. If that doesn't feel like a shortage of exciting games, I don't what does. The arms race with consoles and budgets and cinematic experiences has drowned genuinely creative and original concepts. Meanwhile, you can still find interesting one-off games like Rune Factory or whatever on the 3ds because it doesn't cost a fortune to make a game for it, but many gamers don't want to bother with non PC gaming so....

 

It smells like desperation in some ways, every game keeps getting delayed, there's a whole bunch of features, there's a whole bunch of complaining, more features/complaining/exclusives/complaining/exclusives/complaining/internet rage/internet owning/this issue that issue. Somewhere, deep, deep down beneath the explosion of material there's a video game to play, every once in awhile.

 

The Last of Us felt more like a cash grab rather than a shortage of games.

 

As far as western games go, there isn't a lack of them coming that I am interested in. It seems to be a personal thing for you rather than a legitimate industry shortage of good western games.

 

I'm the reverse in that I can't think of that many Japanese games I'm excited for.

[TheChris92]

I already said "why are we doing this experiment again?" It started somewhere in the middle, anyway, I don't really care about it. My only point is just all Japanese games whatever their flavor against all western games, RPGs and their terminology isn't my main interest here.
 
It just feels like western gaming feels tighter and tighter, more and more tepid and frenzied at the same time. Last of Us was released (which frankly seemed kind of just above average, nothing special), and within 1 year they had already announced a remaster. If that doesn't feel like a shortage of exciting games, I don't what does. The arms race with consoles and budgets and cinematic experiences has drowned genuinely creative and original concepts. Meanwhile, you can still find interesting one-off games like Rune Factory or whatever on the 3ds because it doesn't cost a fortune to make a game for it, but many gamers don't want to bother with non PC gaming so....
 
It smells like desperation in some ways, every game keeps getting delayed, there's a whole bunch of features, there's a whole bunch of complaining, more features/complaining/exclusives/complaining/exclusives/complaining/internet rage/internet owning/this issue that issue. Somewhere, deep, deep down beneath the explosion of material there's a video game to play, every once in awhile.

Well, this post certainly doesn't adhere to that complaining at all? As for the Last of Us. Opinions are a wonderful thing, Kefka. We all have them.

[fchopin]

Character progression in terms of leveling up and increasing stats or perks by your own choosing. More importantly; if you can actually roleplay your character, in other words; choosing the role of your character in terms of class, gear and/or personality. JRPGs are often lacking in this department, but most of the JRPGs still give enough freedom in tinkering with your character and outfitting him/her to be considered an RPG.
 
RPGs originally come from the traditional pens-n-paper roleplaying games, where basically a storyteller tells and interactive story and the players can interact with that story as their characters through a bunch of rules and simple mechanics, often linked to a character sheet with stats and a bunch of dice. The early RPG videogames tried to mimic this concept and bring it to a digital medium. The game tells a story and you as the player get to create your own character and interact with the story through your character. This happens through interactive dialogue, making choices with consequences and choosing where you go and what gear and spells you use.
JRPGs are a simplified version of that, where often the protagonist is already created by the developers and you simply get to tinker around with him and give him different weapons and outfits. Some western RPGs also took out the character creation aspect (The Witcher), but even without the character creation it's still an RPG because you get to choose what role your character plays in the game/story. The Witcher allows you to decide how to develop Geralt, you choose is stats and fighting styles as he levels up and you get to make key decisions that influence Geralt's personality and the progression of the story. During the game Geralt keeps a personal journal with him and that journal will start filling up as you do quests. The content of the journal and the way Geralt sees things will depend on the choices you made during the game.
 
This is what defines an RPG and Zelda has almost none of that.

Sorry but I disagree with your definition.
Role playing has nothing to do with a character that is set like Geralt or Link or with a player made character.
Role playing is what options are in the game after the character is made up or set.

[Raizo]

I like both and I don't think I have a preference.

I do find however that I am seeing and playing less and less Japanese games in recent years since most Japanese developers are concentrating more on handheld and mobile games and I am more focused on playing games for the home consoles. Ever since the rise of the 360 we've been seeing more and more shooters ( FPS' and TPS' ) and it makes me more nostalgic for the days when gaming was dominated by Japanese IP's. Things aren't so bad right now thanks to the rise of Indi game development, it has helped bring some much needed diversity to Western game development but there was a period of time where things were looking very bleak.

I will say this however, I'm not a big fan of Japanese developers taking existing Japanese IP's and trying to make them more 'Western'. I started playing Tales of Xillia 2 last night and I really don't like the new protagonist, he's almost silent, instead of having spoken dialogue we are given random dialogue choices every time he is given the option to speak. One of best things about the 'Tales' series is their characterisation, very rarely does Namco ever get this wrong and yet I find I can't warm up to Ludger Kresnik, he stands out too much in the 'Takes' universe like he's a character from another IP.

[Seraphim24]

As far as western games go, there isn't a lack of them coming that I am interested in. It seems to be a personal thing for you rather than a legitimate industry shortage of good western games.

 

Indeed, whatever I am does not seem to be of interest to most western game developers. It seems we can always just go our separate ways.

 

I will say this however, I'm not a big fan of Japanese developers taking existing Japanese IP's and trying to make them more 'Western'. I started playing Tales of Xillia 2 last night and I really don't like the new protagonist, he's almost silent, instead of having spoken dialogue we are given random dialogue choices every time he is given the option to speak. One of best things about the 'Tales' series is their characterisation, very rarely does Namco ever get this wrong and yet I find I can't warm up to Ludger Kresnik, he stands out too much in the 'Takes' universe like he's a character from another IP.

 

Eh well, at least one person disagrees with you on that I think, not necessarily me though.

[Tarek]

aside form playing some Pokemon I find Japanese games boring

 

now the shows on the other hand ....(anime i mean)

[TheChris92]

I like both and I don't think I have a preference.

I do find however that I am seeing and playing less and less Japanese games in recent years since most Japanese developers are concentrating more on handheld and mobile games and I am more focused on playing games for the home consoles. Ever since the rise of the 360 we've been seeing more and more shooters ( FPS' and TPS' ) and it makes me more nostalgic for the days when gaming was dominated by Japanese IP's. Things aren't so bad right now thanks to the rise of Indi game development, it has helped bring some much needed diversity to Western game development but there was a period of time where things were looking very bleak.

I will say this however, I'm not a big fan of Japanese developers taking existing Japanese IP's and trying to make them more 'Western'. I started playing Tales of Xillia 2 last night and I really don't like the new protagonist, he's almost silent, instead of having spoken dialogue we are given random dialogue choices every time he is given the option to speak. One of best things about the 'Tales' series is their characterisation, very rarely does Namco ever get this wrong and yet I find I can't warm up to Ludger Kresnik, he stands out too much in the 'Takes' universe like he's a character from another IP.

Think I'd prefer if Ludger was voiced too but I don't think it's a turn off at all -- A reverse situation, happened in Persona 2, where the main protagonist has a default name, backstory and baggage with a few of the game's characters, making the whole idea of a silent protagonist pointless and distracting. I don't find it to be the same case with Xillia, since he can have a "voice" but of course only if you beat the game -- In general, it's not as irritating. But then again, I find Xillia and its sequel to be among the best in the series with the most interesting lore, setting and some interesting characters.

[Seival]

My most anticipated game is currently under development in Japan (Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain). Also, MGS series are my favorite games of all times. But these are the only Japanese games I'm really interested in. The rest of my favorites are western games.

[The Heretic of Time]

Sorry but I disagree with your definition.
Role playing has nothing to do with a character that is set like Geralt or Link or with a player made character.
Role playing is what options are in the game after the character is made up or set.

Then you must have misread or misunderstood my definition, because I never said roleplaying depends on whether the character is set or player-made. To say that it has nothing to do with it is wrong though, it definitely is linked together.

Your definition is a bit broad and needs refinement though. You are on the right track, but what do you mean with "options"? If you mean being able to choose your own role/class, being able to choose how to build/progress your character (stats and gear) and being able to choose your own path through the game, then you'd be right.

[Ravensword]

My most anticipated game is currently under development in Japan (Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain). Also, MGS series are my favorite games of all times. But these are the only Japanese games I'm really interested in. The rest of my favorites are western games.

How about the Metro series? They're made in Russia--well, actually in Ukraine, but you probably consider that de jure territory of Russia, мой злодей.

[RZIBARA]

How about the Metro series? They're made in Russia--well, actually in Ukraine, but you probably consider that de jure territory of Russia, мой злодей.

 

Those games are masterpieces