@linksocarina
I'm not in this to convince you or be convinced by you. We obviously have a different view of what makes a game good. I'm more interest in common ground because that's how I gain perspective. I'm sorry if I sound any different. My only intention is to speak my mind on the various points other people make and wait for them to do the same. Your answer explains many things that I had a hard trouble understanding earlier.
I think that it comes down to disagreeing with the definition of optimization. There is a reason I said your examples were "optimization for excellence". It's the "be the best you can be" mentality that some games have which I consider a bad design. And the reason why we disagree on the "amount of optimization a game needs".
Like for example, my definition of what "going naked" means is different than yours. I give it as an example of optimization that is extremely non-invasive. Getting the overall "best" gear isn't optimization, it's just progress. Getting the best gear to increase the most important aspect of your character is optimization. Going naked is a form of optimization. You capitalize on rolls and freetarget movement. So the best gear for this type of play, is no gear. You want to go naked because there is little difference between naked and light armor protection, plus this allows you to use a stronger weapon cause of the weight mechanics. Just because it isn't so much based on conventional methods of optimizing doesn't mean it is any different.
It's the same with fps games, playing a sniper. It's very difficult to learn how to do dragshots, spawns, common camper positions. You pick your weapon based on your ability. If you are good at these things, you prefer using the weapon that does the highest damage, since when you take a shot, it will probably be a kill. If you aren't and you lack this knowledge, better get a semi automatic instead of bolt action cause most of your actions in the game will be reacting to close distance and fast moving visual cues. You don't want to miss a shot with a bolt action at assault rifle distance.
Same idea behind outmaneuvering fights in pnp games by using good judgement. Like for example making a circle with the caravan wagons so the enemies won't attack you from all sides or having a dex damage wand to deal with a dragon. The optimization process here would be to get a character with high initiative. This is not "just roleplaying". This is the same process but on a larger scale. You become aware of a situation and you respond to it. In Dark Souls you become aware of a telegraphed movement and you respond to it. The only difference is the time frame you have to make the decision. Which one you like is a matter of preference. I like both.
Optimization is more than just maths and stats. To give you a more familiar example, Kotor. You can do a "hit n run" style attack and avoid a ton of damage that you would otherwise take, plus you can use medical kits safer. Essentially makes it totally impossible to die as long as you have medical kits unless an attack oneshots you. The same principle can be applied to Dark Souls as well., it's just a bit more involved cause movement is better simulated. So instead you have to consider things like invincibility frames, reach, speed etc. I can think of hundreds of examples. Going haste instead of critical as a fire mage in wow for better responsiveness even if critical does more damage overall, specing all your mages into fire spells for DA2 so you can counter friendly fire with fire resistance runs. Whatever.
Anyway I think this discussion is exciting. I'd prefer if you continued posting. But I understand if you don't. These arguments tend to go in cycles.
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