119 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Perhaps its not, but making one of the groups feel like victims and telling them they deserve it is not how you heal this problem. It just re-opens the wound.

Which no one has done?

[Drasanil]

I take issue with it only in that I am disappointed that BioWare has chosen to ensure this argument goes on for at least one more development cycle, and it didn't have to happen. BioWare was in a position to say "What happened in the past is irrelevant. From this point forward, there will be a numerically even split." Then no one would ever again have valid reason to complain about numeric inequality. Instead they have decided to support an ongoing cycle of negative comparison and 'us vs them' mentality.

Instead of limiting arguments to subjective topics (romance X is better than romance Y), which will happen regardless, BioWare has encouraged an Objective argument and further divided an already divisive community by doing so. And what's worse, to me, is that it didn't have to happen. The writers are omnipotent when it comes to the characters and the world those characters inhabit, which means the writers made a conscious choice for it to turn out this way. I am disappointed by that decision. It suggests to me that if BioWare has learned anything from past mistakes, then they have come to what I consider to be the wrong conclusions.

 

...or you know, its not really an issue at all apart for a small minority of a minority who decide to make it one and subsequently blow it completely out of proportion.

 

Being inclusive doesn't mean you have to ensure some arbitrary standard of absolute equality because *reasons*. This is still a role-playing game and part of the draw is that the characters are their own people and have their own history, ideas, preferences and motivations. The writers should  not compromise that just because a narrow few have an arbitrary standard they insist must be met in order to satisfy their vision of thing.

 

You want 'perfect' equality in romance options? Go play Skyrim and enjoy all the equal romancing you want with those hella-fun and oh so well developed companions.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I have heard both sides of the argument, and my response is that both sides need to get over themselves.

 

 

Perhaps its not, but making one of the groups feel like victims and telling them they deserve it is not how you heal this problem. It just re-opens the wound.

 

Yeah...the people getting rape threats don't need to get over those. They have every right to be pissed the **** off. The people angry at these women for giving their opinions and therefore making rape threats, I agree, they need to get over themselves. And maybe cancel their internet service.

 

Male gamers aren't victims here. I don't get anything from the extra two romances either. Its kind of a bummer but it hardly makes me a victim. Lets look back to my first point. The only people who are victims in gaming this week are those being harassed by the threat of rape and death.

[TheodoricFriede]

 

 

If SMGs feel slighted I suggest they play one of the 1000s of games that cater to them and let the girl gamers enjoy being catered to for once..

Uh huh.

 

So you say that women are more deserving of being catered to them men?

 

What would this industry be like if instead of catering to one group or another, they catered to both equally? Do you think there would be as much complaining? More? Would it be worth it if it was less, even slightly?

[TheodoricFriede]

Which no one has done?

Have you not been paying attention?

[AresKeith]

Was the stab at TES necessary? Shots Fired.

Ikr, I thought Serana was a very well developed companion

[Drasanil]

Was the stab at TES necessary? Shots Fired. 

 

I actually quite like Skryim, got a few hundred hours on it. I didn't think of it as a shot so much as you know, acknowledging the companions and romances for what they were, puppets for head-canoning as opposed to fully developed characters. 

[TheodoricFriede]

Yeah...the people getting rape threats don't need to get over those. They have every right to be pissed the **** off. The people angry at these women for giving their opinions and therefore making rape threats, I agree, they need to get over themselves. And maybe cancel their internet service.

 

Male gamers aren't victims here. I don't get anything from the extra two romances either. Its kind of a bummer but it hardly makes me a victim. Lets look back to my first point. The only people who are victims in gaming this week are those being harassed by the threat of rape and death.

Im not getting into a debate about the absurd series of events this week.

[AresKeith]

Have you not been paying attention?

You mean how some are trying to act like victims being punished, and taking Allan's comment out of context

[Drasanil]

Can't excel at everything. Lore is good... erm or so I've heard. 

 

YMMV 

[TheodoricFriede]

You mean how some are trying to act like victims being punished, and taking Allan's comment out of context

I certainly not thrilled with Bioware's handling of the situation. Nor do i feel like their goal was fairness. If it was, i dont believe we would have a Pinned thread with "Look, heres the deal about the romance options..."

 

Further various statements from people on the development team has given me the impression that they feel like this disproportionate number is acceptable due to previous games having disproportionate numbers.

[TK514]

...or you know, its not really an issue at all apart for a small minority of a minority who decide to make it one and subsequently blow it completely out of proportion.
 
Being inclusive doesn't mean you have to ensure some arbitrary standard of absolute equality because *reasons*. This is still a role-playing game and part of the draw is that the characters are their own people and have their own history, ideas, preferences and motivations. The writers should  not compromise that just because a narrow few have an arbitrary standard they insist must be met in order to satisfy their vision of thing.
 
You want 'perfect' equality in romance options? Go play Skyrim and enjoy all the equal romancing you want with those hella-fun and oh so well developed companions.

There is absolutely no reason to suspect a numerical equality would result in a drop in writing quality or characterization. In fact, I would expect the opposite since knowing exactly how many and what types of romances they were going to do from the beginning would assist in managing necessary resources to that content at a very early stage.

And I'm not reallysure why you brought up Skyrim as a counter example since I doubt there are equal numbers of male and female romance options, and that's assuming you consider how Bethesda handled it to even be 'romance content'.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Im not getting into a debate about the absurd series of events this week.

Fair enough. However, I don't think you can look at the choices made in this game without understanding the culture and industry which created them. Straght Male gamers aren't victims. Is it a bummer, yeah? Definitely. And personally, I would have preferred the extra development resources went to other things. But the idea that this is punishment for SMGs or some intricate conspiracy from the seemingly omnipotent 'social justice warriors' as some have claimed is absolutely ludicrous.

[AresKeith]

I certainly not thrilled with Bioware's handling of the situation. Nor do i feel like their goal was fairness.

Further various statements from people on the development team has given me the impression that they feel like this disproportionate number is acceptable due to previous games having disproportionate numbers.

Their goal was to give players at least two romance options, which they did regardless of how people feel about those options

they never said anything about being fair

[TheodoricFriede]

And I'm not reallysure why you brought up Skyrim as a counter example since I doubt there are equal numbers of male and female romance options, and that's assuming you consider how Bethesda handled it to even be 'romance content'.

Those S.O.B.'s only gave me ONE female argonian option. One!!!

[Battlebloodmage]

I certainly not thrilled with Bioware's handling of the situation. Nor do i feel like their goal was fairness. If it was, i dont believe we would have a Pinned thread with "Look, heres the deal about the romance options..."

 

Further various statements from people on the development team has given me the impression that they feel like this disproportionate number is acceptable due to previous games having disproportionate numbers.

Allan is not on the development team. His opinion doesn't represent Bioware's development team as a whole. His quote was intentionally misread just so people have evidence that they have been personally been victimized by Bioware. All he said was that if an extra option was to be given after everyone had equal numbers then it should go to other groups who had always been ignored by the gaming industry. That is also his opinion alone, not Bioware or DA developers.

 

With that being said, who else besides Allan said that the disproportionate number is acceptable? I'm pretty disappointed with the distribution but I don't think that statement you made is correct.

[TheTurtle]

Bioware has never been good with PR or marketing.

[TK514]

Those S.O.B.'s only gave me ONE female argonian option. One!!!

And this one had no Kajit to share his Moonsugar with. Very sad.

[TheodoricFriede]

they never said anything about being fair

Perhaps, in the future, they should.

[Shadow Fox]

Uh huh.

 

So you say that women are more deserving of being catered to them men?

 

What would this industry be like if instead of catering to one group or another, they catered to both equally? Do you think there would be as much complaining? More? Would it be worth it if it was less, even slightly?

In this case?Hell yes they are. But I do find it hilarious that this "inequality" is only an issue when someone other than straight white males are catered to.

 

I suggest you take that up with the developers who either don't bother or make token efforts to be inclusive instead of attacking one of the few that is.

 

I also suggest if you truly have an issue with inequality in gaming be happy that for once women are getting preferable treatment by a game corporation.

 

EDIT: damn keyboard

Modifié par Red Zaku, 05 septembre 2014 - 07:18 .

[TheodoricFriede]

Bioware has never been good with PR or marketing.

That about sums everything up, yeah.

 

And this one had no Kajit to share his Moonsugar with. Very sad.

Nor did this one. Next game, hopefully.

[Allan Schumacher]

Allan is not on the development team.

Ouch.