21 réponses à ce sujet

[Vendetta543]

I love Bioware games, particularly Mass Effect 3 and DA: Origins, but am I the only one who feels like the story feels somewhat....disjointed during the main story? Now I'm not talking about side-quests since on the norm those tend to be unrelated, but rather the main quests. Origins is a good example of this - Apart from the Dwarven questline, which deals with the Darkspawn rather well considering the Anvil, all of the other quests feel...I dunno, out of place somewhat. I go to the Dalish and they're being attacked by werewolves? Redcliffe's being sieged by Undead created by a demon child? The Circle's been taken over by abominations!? No doubt they're great plots, but that's just it - They're great stories, but in the context of 'The rising Blight', they end up feeling like busywork or contrived coincidences that they're happening right now of all times when the corruption plague is breathing down everyone's neck.

 

As much as people complain about Awakening at least all the main quests connect to the main theme - Wending Wood focuses on the Architect, Blackmarsh Undying on the Mother, and Kal Hirol on the Darkspawn Civil war. Even then the Blackmarsh tacked on the Baroness, which again felt really out of place since in the narrative of the Darkspawn gaining intelligence she feels like an outside context villain. The fact that she's fought as the end boss while 'The Withered' is treated like a chump used as a sacrifice only emphasizes this. 

 

Mass Effect 3 had this as well. You'd think solving the Geth-Quarian conflict through peace or war and curing the Genophage (or not) would be done before the Reaper invasion, not smack dab in the middle of it. Granted this is much more bearable since it's quite possible to have Shepard complain about the timing being so effing bad considering their planet's being ravaged while they play peacekeeper between the races. That and the first two games foreshadow the lead up quite clearly, so it doesn't come unexpected like in Origins. 

 

Ultimately what I'm wondering is if Inquisition will have a cohesive narrative or if it will feel like Origins - A game which I find very much better than II (though I still liked that game), but from a narrative standpoint feels rather disjointed/episodic rather than straight to the point. No doubt solving the Templar-Mage conflict and trying to stabilize Orlais is going to make for an awesome installment, but doing this with a demonic invasion in the background might again lead on to feel the entire thing is no more than busywork. That and even without the invasion trying to stabilize Thedas' biggest country and stopping the war between the Mages and Templars sounds like it'd be good as its own game. 

[Wolfen09]

disjointed yes, but that makes it more believable....  It just shows that nobody will help you without being helped in return, even if it means letting an entire nation be destroyed from darkspawn.  There is no clear cut, hey lets all join hands to fight this stuff, its all hey what will you give me to help you fight.  Inquisition will showcase this a lot, as we are building up troops....  its not all about stopping the breach, its about saving those that can be saved in the process and we need people to fight for us to do that.  Trust me, if you're a fan of lord of the rings or game of thrones this line of questing makes sense, as those books are all disjointed from their main quests.  Just the way it goes.

[Vendetta543]

Nah, it's not that. I understand the concept of 'You help me I help you' since I've played Fallout New Vegas where the different factions either hurt you, aid you or ignore you depending on your actions. The only thing is that the themes/genres feel disjointed - The Dalish story feels like a folk tale/ballad with its events while Connor's rampage plays off like survival horror/The Exorcist; especially since Connor's 'condition' is one of the few scares in the game that doesn't rely on body horror or grotesque imagery but rather more disturbing effects such as the demon's childlike mannerisms when inhabiting Connor's body. 

 

I just wonder what genre Inquisition's going to be. Trailers tout it as a pseudo-horror action RPG mixed with a heroic quest in the vein of Shadow Hearts, but some interviews make it seem more like civilization/Assassins Creed with you sending your troops/operatives to capture points and gathering resources to fight against other threats. I also wonder if the Inquisitor is more of a figurehead they prop to gather support. Given that he's the only one who can close the fade tears I'm surprised the others let him fight rather than send everyone else to clear all enemies then making him/her close the rifts when it's all clear. As far as they know he's/she's the only one capable of closing the tears and if he dies in combat the world's effed. 

[Wolfen09]

you know, i kind of thought that too in origins where it was just my warden and allistair up against the arch demon.....  Its like can we just send yall up to beat the dragon to near death then deliver the killing blow.... cause without us yall is screwed.  As for the identity of the genre.... well, its adding in all those elements cause they are fun, im happy with a game not having a true identity if its fun to play

[Yinello]

I think a lot of people don't realize that they'd be effed if the Inquisitor dies. I bet there are groups constantly trying to kill the Quizzy because we're glowing and fell out of the sky. Pretty demonic.

[Vendetta543]

Yeah, but what about the Inquisition itself? Why are these guys perfectly willing to let you traipse around when they most likely know if you die the entire thing collapses on its face? It's not the same deal with Origins and II - If the Warden dies they could still continue on since their goal doesn't change; none of them (barring Morrigan) know the Wardens are absolutely critical to the Archdemon slaying and all of them are in danger of the Blight/want to end it for their own reasons/have nothing better to do so they wouldn't just stop if the PC died. Likewise in II there's no grand overarching story for the most part; Hawke just gets his companions to accompany him/her during their free time and if he dies they don't lose any goals. In Inquisition your character is noted to be the only Tear sealer, so I'm surprised they don't just keep you on cold storage till they need you rather than risk you getting killed and dooming themselves....unless they assume your corpse alone can still close the Tears and if so having you die is a minor inconvenience at best. 

[Vendetta543]

Double Post. 

[wolfhowwl]

I agree that Awakening was much more focused than the episodic Origins which pushed Loghain and the Archdemon into the background where they stayed for most of the game.

 

I think that while Inquisition may have chapters like Orlais or Mages and Templars that divert from the main thrust of the game, perhaps the antagonist will be deploying agents to keep fanning the flames of those conflicts and stop you from resolving them. The developers also talked about a "setback" where the antagonist realizes that you are opposing their efforts and mounts a direct assault on your faction. Hopefully whoever they are, they will be more involved with the game than the very passive Loghain and Archdemon who basically wait patiently for you to get ready and come defeat them.

[BloodKaiden]

I think a lot of people don't realize that they'd be effed if the Inquisitor dies. I bet there are groups constantly trying to kill the Quizzy because we're glowing and fell out of the sky. Pretty demonic.

Or they do and they prefer the world to be in a state of chaos for their own purposes. Most of the populace in Thedas isn't exactly rational in time of crisis anyway.

[Willowhugger]

EVERYTHING was related to the damn Chantry, Templars, and Mages in DA2.

It was enough to make me want to claw out my own eyeballs and I'm the original Mageneto.

[Gervaise]

Actually I felt all the plots, apart from the Ashes of Andraste, made perfect sense in DAO.    We had these agreements which would help us raise an army, which we needed owing to what Loghain had done, and when we contact the respective parties, there are things going on which mean we need to sort them out before they will help.   It's annoying because the Blight is a problem that needs dealing with swiftly but without these allies we're not going to be able to deal with it at all.

 

Eamon was different in that we needed him to deal with Loghain and so of course we needed the ashes to heal Eamon.    I did find it a bit far fetched that we could walk into Denerim and not be immediately arrested, particularly when some people did recognise us, but I just had to imagine that it was actually a far larger city than it appeared and so you could lose yourself in the crowd.

 

The mage/Templar conflict and the Orlesian Civil War are important to the main plot in Inquisition because they are sources of chaos and discord, not to mention bloodshed, all of which are things which contribute to the Breach.      It has been emphasised time and again, both in game and in novels, that places where a large number of deaths have occurred or whether there have been negative emotions displayed, thin the veil and allow demons to pass through.      The Devs have said that the chaos currently sweeping Thedas is no coincidence but someone is behind it; we now know that someone is the Elder One or his followers.      So in addition to running around closing tears with our glowing hand, we need to resolve these issues in order to assist the healing process.    In a way it even makes for a justification for embarking on side quests, since every problem solved is a positive reinforcement of our efforts in the main plot.   Then having stabilised things, we confront the mastermind to ensure it doesn't happen again or possibly he comes looking for us because we've spoilt his plans.   Shame!

[Willowhugger]

 

Eamon was different in that we needed him to deal with Loghain and so of course we needed the ashes to heal Eamon.    I did find it a bit far fetched that we could walk into Denerim and not be immediately arrested, particularly when some people did recognise us, but I just had to imagine that it was actually a far larger city than it appeared and so you could lose yourself in the crowd.

They actually covered that with the City Guard Captain being a Warden sympathizer and Loghain's hold on the city tenuous at best.

[Shimmering Nug]

They actually covered that with the City Guard Captain being a Warden sympathizer and Loghain's hold on the city tenuous at best.

 

Didn't they also give you the opportunity to lie to a Templar that recognised you as a Warden in Denerim?

[Ruairi46]

Didn't they also give you the opportunity to lie to a Templar that recognised you as a Warden in Denerim?

Sir Landry 

Spoiler

 

[Master Warder Z_]

Sir Landry 

Spoiler

 

 

Wasn't a templar.

[Shadow Quickpaw]

"Just once I'd like to ask someone for help and hear them say: 'Sure! Why not? Let's go, right now! No stings attached.'"

[Ruairi46]

Wasn't a templar.

That he wasn't. He fought below Loghain Mac Tir. I don't know why, but I really want him to reappear? 

[Shimmering Nug]

Sir Landry 

Spoiler

 

 

Yes, that fellow, thank you, my memory is not as it used to be =)

 

Wasn't a templar.

 

Ah, my mistake. Many apologies =)

[frylock23]

I look at it this way -  It's like reality. No one is going to put down their own petty problems in this world long enough to focus on an actual problem because someone else brings it up first. If Latvia stands up and says, "Look! Apocalypse. We all better figure this out." The world would consider it for all of two heartbeats and then say, "Lol, Latvia." and go back to whatever else they were fighting about. No one would pay attention until Latvia kicked their butts and made them pay attention.

 

Guess what? We're Latvia.

[Willowhugger]

Didn't they also give you the opportunity to lie to a Templar that recognised you as a Warden in Denerim?

There's also the fact, Cousland aside (and that's pushing it), it's not like he can give much of a description for people.

"Uh...a dwarf. He was short. Really arrogant/grimy looking."

[Gwydden]

There's also the fact, Cousland aside (and that's pushing it), it's not like he can give much of a description for people.

"Uh...a dwarf. He was short. Really arrogant/grimy looking."

"I could use a little more information."

 

"Oh, well. He was of reduced stature. Like, small, you get me? Very little. Below average height. He couldn't be taller than me. Did I mention he was a dwarf? A short dwarf?"

 

"Ugh."

[Vendetta543]

Actually I felt all the plots, apart from the Ashes of Andraste, made perfect sense in DAO.    We had these agreements which would help us raise an army, which we needed owing to what Loghain had done, and when we contact the respective parties, there are things going on which mean we need to sort them out before they will help.   It's annoying because the Blight is a problem that needs dealing with swiftly but without these allies we're not going to be able to deal with it at all.

 

Eamon was different in that we needed him to deal with Loghain and so of course we needed the ashes to heal Eamon.    I did find it a bit far fetched that we could walk into Denerim and not be immediately arrested, particularly when some people did recognise us, but I just had to imagine that it was actually a far larger city than it appeared and so you could lose yourself in the crowd.

 

The mage/Templar conflict and the Orlesian Civil War are important to the main plot in Inquisition because they are sources of chaos and discord, not to mention bloodshed, all of which are things which contribute to the Breach.      It has been emphasised time and again, both in game and in novels, that places where a large number of deaths have occurred or whether there have been negative emotions displayed, thin the veil and allow demons to pass through.      The Devs have said that the chaos currently sweeping Thedas is no coincidence but someone is behind it; we now know that someone is the Elder One or his followers.      So in addition to running around closing tears with our glowing hand, we need to resolve these issues in order to assist the healing process.    In a way it even makes for a justification for embarking on side quests, since every problem solved is a positive reinforcement of our efforts in the main plot.   Then having stabilised things, we confront the mastermind to ensure it doesn't happen again or possibly he comes looking for us because we've spoilt his plans.   Shame!

 

Hmm, I don't disagree, I'm just saying a lot of the problems come REALLY out of left field. Okay the Circle being taken over by Demonic Mages? Fine, the Magi Origin foreshadows possession and you're beaten over the head with 'Mages can be corrupted!' over and over again. When anyone first went to Redcliffe were they really expecting a demon Caligula wannabe sending Undead to raze the town? Morrigan put it best 'It seems everyone decides that the Blight is the best time to kill one another!'. Ditto with the Dalish; I was expecting to do tasks to make them trust me and honor the treaty, not an attack by overgrown wolves backed up by Undead, Revenants, Sylvans, Crazy Hermits, Giant Spiders and Arcane Warrior Soulgems. It comes out of nowhere and leaves the player scratching their head. One youtuber even commented saying 'I'm fighting Halloween monsters!'.

 

Now please don't mistake this for trolling or griping: I genuinely enjoy all of the main questlines (Fade in the tower excluded >.> ) but almost all of them feel like they were taken from different genres of books and slapped together to get as many genres as possible - Going into Haven had a definite 'Shadow over Innsmouth' feel. It's hard to equate the Dragon Cult with the Werewolves or with the possessed demon child, for example. In Inquisition that would be like going into the Orlais Civil war arc only to be told that Gaspard and Celene will be willing to consider peace only if the Inquisitor does a circus act with Cole and Iron Bull while Leliana provides background music. Given Orlais it might be a legitimate option to get them both to sit down and talk but it'd still feel jarring as hell.