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[LobselVith8]

With the relatively recent news that the elven Inquisitor will be either the First or a hunter for Clan Lavellan, and all the romantic options finally revealed, I was giving some thought to the prospect of exploring elven culture and the two romance options for a straight male elven Inquisitor - Cassandra and Josephine.

 

Given the different speculations about how a Dalish main character might be able to impact society in positive ways for the Elvhen and recover elven artifacts (given Weekes' tweet about Solas notifying his Inquisitor about an elven artifact), it seems the protagonist can work towards uncovering pieces of the past of the elves - one of the main goals of the Dalish, who are curious about a past lost to centuries of slavery under the Imperium.

 

With the mandatory vallaslin and the potential roles, I'd imagine the player can roleplay as a traditional Dalish elf - someone who might strongly believe in the Creators and the ethos of the People. I also thought about the implications of the two possible romances for a straight male Inquisitor, as well as the potential problems that would likely arise. Both characters have a role in Andrastian society, neither one would likely want to part with that position to join the Dalish (which would be an impediment for an elven character who wants to live with his people in the long run), and therefore a romance would necessitate making sacrifices to be with either love interest.

 

This happened in the previous title, with our Dalish companion. Merrill sacrificed a lot to be with Hawke - a life and future with her people, passing on her heritage, having elven children, even potentially becoming an outlaw from Chantry and templar forces by association if the Champion opposes the Right of Annulment - and she gets little in return (save Hawke). There's also her melancholy reflection when she's given the sylvan ring, which is meant to be a gift for a Keeper.

 

In retrospect, it seems like the elven Inquisitor would have to make the same kind of sacrifices Merrill did to be with either Cassandra or Josephine, which I imagine would be an issue for anyone interested in a traditional run as a main character from Clan Lavellan. For those of you who are planning on playing as a traditionalist Dalish elf (rather than an unorthodox run), have you given this any thought?

[Willowhugger]

Of course, being the Inquisitor itself is a sacrifice.

 

Will the Dalish accept a member of their clan who lives, works, and befriends humans?

No, of course not.

 

However, the Inquisitor may change the world for their entire race.

[EmperorKarino]

well Merrill's situation was already unstable from her relationship between herself and her clan. even without hawke's intervention Merrill would probably eventually cut contact with them. in my playthrough my hawke ended up killing the whole clan sadly . i really wish there was a better way to resolve that situation without forcing merrill to give up on the eluvian. what's josephine's major role in Andrastian society? i thought she was just a diplomat?

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, it's a big thing to remember the Dalish are all isolationist.

Any Dalish who spends too much time amongst Shemlen is shunned.

Because of the "Humans=Lost Immortality" belief.

[Hellion Rex]

In retrospect, it seems like the elven Inquisitor would have to make the same kind of sacrifices Merrill did to be with either Cassandra or Josephine, which I imagine would be an issue for anyone interested in a traditional run as a main character from Clan Lavellan. For those of you who are planning on playing as a traditionalist Dalish elf (rather than an unorthodox run), have you given this any thought?

My male Dalish elf rogue will more than likely be doing a romance with Cassandra, and I too have pondered this idea, especially in regards to Cass. I honestly don't think Josephine would have much problem with a Dalish romance at all.

 

As for Cass, I don't believe you'd have to compromise the beliefs of your character to have a very successful romance. For me, I see Cassandra as the type that would not found her love of a person off of religious difference. Initially, I can see there being some tension due to simple differences, but at the end of the day, I think Cassandra would love Lavellan based upon the person that they are, and not the religion they follow.

 

Sacrifices, I think it would depend on how well you can explain your choices to Cassandra if they might be contrary to what she believes. So, I guess it honestly depends on the person you are, the choices you make, and how you might justify those actions to Cassandra. As for sacrifices to the other Dalish, your Lavellan might very well be shunned because of your relationship with Cassandra, regardless of how you might try avoid it.

[BlueMagitek]

I maintain my Dalish Warden's orthodox view on shems; have nothing to do with them.

 

Now, in his case, he unfortunately couldn't be separated from the Alishem, but he did manage to drive away Witch shem, didn't recruit Chantry shem, purged the Tower shem, killed Zevran for allying with shem, and partied constantly with Oghren, Sten and Shale.  Shale he especially liked, as they both had a shared history of their people being controlled by others.  He later betrayed Alishem and took the Ultimate Sacrifice so that he wouldn't have to live in a world or afterlife full of shem.  It was quite a fun run.

 

So, similar run for OrthoDalish, just avoid human companions as much as possible to avoid losing thirty thousand or so years of my life.

[Icy Magebane]

True love often demands sacrifice, but for traditionalists, there is always the option to abstain.  A traditionalist Dalish probably wouldn't find other races particularly attractive in the first place, as their cultural taboos would prevent them from noticing positive physical or emotional characteristics in non-elves.  So... basically, if the elf is that into the Dalish, they should have no problem with waiting until they meet another Dalish to look for love. 

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Remember that backgrounds are nowhere near as important in this game as they were in Origins. It's there, sure, and there is some custom dialogue based on race and gender, but we shouldn't have unrealistic expectations. I think the elven Inquisitor will become an outcast among his own people because of his weird powers, and not be welcomed back like a brother. It won't be THAT dissimilar from playing human or anything else.

 

Human mages are outcasts, so are Qunari Inquisitors, the dwarven one is a surfacer (outcast). They chose these backgrounds for a reason.

[Reznore57]

Well my Dalish is going to romance Dorian... I'm not sure we can roleplay the "it's complicated" in game , but I'm going to headcannon  my Dalish is going to be torn.

 

In theory ,those two can't end up together , the way I see my Dalish he will want to go back to his clan at the end.

I don't think they are going to welcome the Tevinter boyfriend with open arms (well I don't think Dorian family would be happy either anyway)

 

My solution is play the game , and see where it takes me .

It's a "it's the apocalypse " scenario , things are falling apart , I assume different factions will make some truce etc...

I think there's going to be enough room for my Dalish to grow from "Urgh I can't stand humans " to "Okay those people in the Inquisition are my new clan".

[LobselVith8]

Of course, being the Inquisitor itself is a sacrifice.

 

Will the Dalish accept a member of their clan who lives, works, and befriends humans?

No, of course not.

 

I don't see why you feel the clan wouldn't, when there's nothing suggesting this would be the case.

 

There's supposed to be a clan of Dalish who live near humans in Rivain who follow the Natural Order, and it was said the humans are encouraged to buy elven goods. Mahariel can say she plans to return to the Dalish at the royal ceremony (and is only prevented from doing so because of the constraints of the Plot), so her participation with the Wardens and working with shemlen didn't prohibit her from the opportunity to return and be part of the clan. Arianni was able to return to the Sabrae Clan; Arianni left to live in Kirkwall, and was able to return.

 

One of our potential multiplayer characters is Dalish - Neria, a First of the Dalish Clan of Ralaferin - and she's working with the Inquisition while remaining a part of her clan because she wants to make certain the interests of the People aren't forgotten by the Inquisition.

 

However, the Inquisitor may change the world for their entire race.

 

On this, we agree.

[Willowhugger]

Well, you're almost certainly going to confront the larger issues raised in "The Masked Empire."

Which is, "City Elves want equality with Dalish."

I mean, Dalish Elves will have their MINDS BLOWN by this concept.

[Willowhugger]

I don't see why you feel the clan wouldn't, when there's nothing suggesting this would be the case.

There's supposed to be a clan of Dalish who live near humans in Rivain who follow the Natural Order, and it was said the humans are encouraged to buy elven goods. Mahariel can say she plans to return to the Dalish at the royal ceremony (and is only prevented from doing so because of the constraints of the Plot), so her participation with the Wardens and working with shemlen didn't prohibit her from the opportunity to return and be part of the clan; Arianni was able to return to the Sabrae Clan. Arianni left to live in Kirkwall, and was able to return.

One of our potential multiplayer characters is Dalish - Neria, a First of the Dalish Clan of Ralaferin - and she's working with the Inquisition while remaining a part of her clan because she wants to make certain the interests of the People aren't forgotten by the Inquisition.

 

I don't think the Dalish are actively prejudiced for the most part but do have a culture built around the idea that humans have caused the misfortunes of the Dalish (mostly because they did). They aren't rude to Hawke or the Wardens, showing a surprising amount of politeness once it's clear Hawke isn't going to be a problem and the Wardens are friends of the Dalish. However, their nomadic existence is based around the concept of preserving elven culture and trying recapture their lost immortality.

 

It gets complicated really because their chief loathing of the City Elves is tied up into their beliefs they've lost their people and are now immersed in human culture. A Dalish Elf may win great respect as an Inquisitor and save the world but he's also going to be surrounded by Shemlen 24/7 and working with them in an intimate manner in a multispecies group.

 

That's a pretty big thing for them to wrap their heads around as they think elvish culture is diluted by contact with humans.

[Mistic]

Love sometimes demands sacrifice. If you are willing to pay it or not depends on the person. Mind you, it doesn't mean that love is the right answer. Sometimes the sacrifice is too much.

 

In less philosophical terms, hey, that could make for very good roleplaying. Maybe the other characters don't notice it, but your Dalish Inquisitor being torn up inside about his orthodox views about the world and his love for one of the fine ladies in the Inquisition can provide nice scenarios. Seriously, internal conflict is good for character development.

 

On the other side, we have the Romance Master Race, er, Her Eminence Lady Lavellan who has a freaking harem! That presents another conflict, although very different. The Ex-Templar? The Grey Warden? The Qunari? The Apostate Elf? The Gangster Elf? The Diplomat? Choices, choices...

[LobselVith8]

Yeah, it's a big thing to remember the Dalish are all isolationist.

 

From Andrastian humans; suffice it to say, the Dalish and Andrastan society don't really get along, for a number of reasons. Being nomadic is a necessity so the Dalish can follow their cultural and religious beliefs.

 

Any Dalish who spends too much time amongst Shemlen is shunned.

Because of the "Humans=Lost Immortality" belief.

 

I have to respectfully disagree. Entire clans of Dalish who participated in the Fifth Blight would be shunned if that was the case; the Dalish signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens to aid during the Blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

If the PC isn't interested then they shouldn't invest in such a dalliance.

 

Pretty simple.

[Willowhugger]

I have to respectfully disagree. Entire clans of Dalish who participated in the Fifth Blight would be shunned if that was the case; the Dalish signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens to aid during the Blight.

 

I liken the Blight to being the time when the rules got very flexible.

 

It's why the Warden was able to accomplish so much while Hawke's attempt at peace and understanding were like ice-skating uphill.

[LobselVith8]

well Merrill's situation was already unstable from her relationship between herself and her clan. even without hawke's intervention Merrill would probably eventually cut contact with them. in my playthrough my hawke ended up killing the whole clan sadly . i really wish there was a better way to resolve that situation without forcing merrill to give up on the eluvian. what's josephine's major role in Andrastian society? i thought she was just a diplomat?

 

True, the Sabrae Clan isn't an option anymore. My Champion headed towards the nearby exit immediately upon heading down Sundermount (if you head to the cave where you find Zevran and wait there with your companions, you don't have to massacre the entire clan; it's a nice option if you aren't willing to verbally condemn Merrill if it's OOC for your Champion).

 

I was actually thinking about Merrill finding a place with another clan - like Clan Lavellan, or the clan of her family, Clan Alerion (who mainly travel the hills of Nevarra).

 

As to your question, Lady Josephine Montilyet is from a noble Antivan family, and the eldest daughter. She's apparently been a diplomat for years, and has established a number of ties with influential people.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Simplest solution would be to play a female Dalish and romance Solas if you want to do what makes most sense for a Dalish. Of course, if you have your heart set on playing a male Dalish, then you will have to decide if staying true to Dalish ways or romance is more important. Choices, choices...

[wcholcombe]

 

This happened in the previous title, with our Dalish companion. Merrill sacrificed a lot to be with Hawke - a life and future with her people, passing on her heritage, having elven children, even potentially becoming an outlaw from Chantry and templar forces by association if the Champion opposes the Right of Annulment - and she gets little in return (save Hawke). There's also her melancholy reflection when she's given the sylvan ring, which is meant to be a gift for a Keeper.

 

 

 

Lob, I know I have a history of refusing to discuss Merril, but I do have one question on this.  My interpretation of it was always that Merril got kicked out of her clan independent of Hawke.  She wasn't excummunicated because she associated with him.  I could be interpretting it differently I suppose.  Or are you meaning that she couldn't seek out another clan because she wouldn't leave Hawke?

[LobselVith8]

Lob, I know I have a history of refusing to discuss Merril, but I do have one question on this.  My interpretation of it was always that Merril got kicked out of her clan independent of Hawke.  She wasn't excummunicated because she associated with him.  I could be interpretting it differently I suppose.  Or are you meaning that she couldn't seek out another clan because she wouldn't leave Hawke?

 

The latter - I meant that a relationship with Hawke would likely mean that she couldn't seek out another clan to join (whether he becomes Viscount or is on the run from Chantry and templars forces for defying Meredith's Annulment, likely making him one of the most wanted fugitives in the Free Marches). By Act III, Merrill has decided not to continue with her efforts to construct the Eluvian, so that wouldn't even be an issue.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Lob, I know I have a history of refusing to discuss Merril, but I do have one question on this.  My interpretation of it was always that Merril got kicked out of her clan independent of Hawke.  She wasn't excummunicated because she associated with him.  I could be interpretting it differently I suppose.  Or are you meaning that she couldn't seek out another clan because she wouldn't leave Hawke?

Merrill was kicked out by Marathari because she wouldn't stop fiddling with the Eluvian and talking to demons. It's made pretty clear that Merrill is welcome (and wanted by Marathari) to come back when she sees sense and stops doing what she's doing; Marathari reluctantly kicks her out in the hope that being forced to live away from the clan among the shemlen might snap her out of it. Its Merrill's own stubborn blind pride that renders her an outcast from her clan.

[Willowhugger]

The latter - I meant that a relationship with Hawke would likely mean that she couldn't seek out another clan to join (whether he becomes Viscount or is on the run from Chantry and templars forces for defying Meredith's Annulment, likely making him one of the most wanted fugitives in the Free Marches). By Act III, Merrill has decided not to continue with her efforts to construct the Eluvian, so that wouldn't even be an issue.

 

My Merrill finished fixing the Eluvian because I supported her completely.

She's not going to turn it on, though.

[MisterJB]

I don't think retirement is going to be an option; or even something a Dalish Inquisitor would want given how he is more useful for the elves as the Inquisitor; because you will have gained way too much fame and infamy and all manner of forces would attempt to destroy the nascent Inquisition if the leader decided to suddenly go frolick in the woods as an occupation.

 

Besides, Cassandra or Josephine joining the Dalish. That'd be a first. What if they had kids? Would it be a Dalish? It's not elven.

[Willowhugger]

I don't think retirement is going to be an option; or even something a Dalish Inquisitor would want given how he is more useful for the elves as the Inquisitor; because you will have gained way too much fame and infamy and all manner of forces would attempt to destroy the nascent Inquisition if the leader decided to suddenly go frolick in the woods as an occupation.

 

Besides, Cassandra or Josephine joining the Dalish. That'd be a first. What if they had kids? Would it be a Dalish? It's not elven.

The City Elves had an orphanage.

I'm sure the Dalish Inquisitor can adopt some and teach them about their true elvish heritage away from the evil Shem.

[Gervaise]

Strangely enough the problem a Dalish would have is similar to the problem Dorian has, that is you culture expects you to reproduce with the right people in order to produce the best children.   Now I'm not sure if the Dalish mate for life.    If not, then a male Dalish could take the pragmatic sort of view that they can indulge themselves whilst dealing with the Breach and then return to orthodoxy afterwards.     

 

At least so far as a gay Dalish is concerned, the Inquisition might be a way out of a difficult situation for them.    I was thinking of playing an male Dalish this way, so that he and Dorian could become star crossed lovers, since neither sides relatives would approve of the liaison.   However, it would allow him to finally acknowledge where his true attraction lay, which had been difficult in his clan with the pressure to mate and have children. 

 

For a straight male Dalish there is no getting away from the fact that romancing a human is counter culture and whilst we are continually told that humans find elves attractive, it has never been suggested that the opposite is true.  However, Feynriel's mother had a romance with a human and it would seem it was entirely consensual on her part, so it would seem that Dalish can overcome their upbringing and be attracted to a human.    Both Cassandra and Josephine are interesting characters and I can see how an elf might be attracted to them because there is more to them than just a pretty face.    He might admire Cassandra's strength of purpose or Josephine's mind.   No matter that originally you were meant to be intelligence gathering for the clan, the longer you stay as Inquisitor, the more divided you are likely to become from them anyway regardless of who you romance.    Nevertheless a really committed Dalish will just have to remain solo.

 

It is slightly more difficult for a female, since she risks falling pregnant with all the associated social ostracism from the clan for bringing a non-elf into the world.   However, we have the wonderful saviour here in Solas.    So a female Dalish can happily indulge in a romance that the clan would likely approve of, particularly with all the wonderful elven lore he can provide her with.    Needless to say, since I prefer playing elves, my first Inquisitor is going to be a female Dalish mage.