I think that any orthodox Dalish Inquisitor is better off not bothering with romancing a non-elf... unless the player is willing to roleplay their character in a way that invites conflict and personal growth, there's nothing to be gained from such a pairing.
Some Shems are pretty hot.
Some Shems are pretty hot.
Well, I'm not against dabbling now and then, but the OP is suggesting a love affair, not a booty call.
- Merrill: You've probably never met a Dalish before, have you?
- Fenris: I wouldn't know.
- Merrill: I'm sure you'd be able to tell. Dalish aren't much like the elves in the cities.
- Fenris: The smug sense of superiority does give you away.
Fenris takes everything Merrill says in the worst way possible; he makes it clear he doesn't like her for three entire Acts.
However, trying to say that Merrill has a sense of superiority over others is incredibly disingenuous of you. Merrill is also the person who tells Fenris that the plight of the Kirkwall elves matter, she's one of the people who thinks that Kelder should die to protect the children from a serial killer, and she befriends people living in the Alienage - which is why she suggests that Sebastian should name his bow after a cranky woman she knows in the Alienage, and why she reassures Nyssa that Hawke and her are there to help.
Fenris takes everything Merrill says in the worst way possible; he makes it clear he doesn't like her for three entire Acts.
A smug dalish blood mage, why would he like her?
I for one am repulsed by Cullen's condescending Dalish-fever.
No, Kossith and dwarves are disgusting.
But elves?
They're alright.
Another sign of the tacit racism and sexist entitlement of Fereldan men.
I for one am repulsed by Cullen's condescending Dalish-fever.
No, Kossith and dwarves are disgusting.
But elves?
They're alright.
Another sign of the tacit racism and sexist entitlement of Fereldan men.
Qunari and Dwarves are too rough for him.
Fenris takes everything Merrill says in the worst way possible; he makes it clear he doesn't like her for three entire Acts.
However, trying to say that Merrill has a sense of superiority over others is incredibly disingenuous of you. Merrill is also the person who tells Fenris that the plight of the Kirkwall elves matter, she's one of the people who thinks that Kelder should die to protect the children from a serial killer, and she befriends people living in the Alienage - which is why she suggests that Sebastian should name his bow after a cranky woman she knows in the Alienage, and why she reassures Nyssa that Hawke and her are there to help.
I think Fenris is taking exception to the fact that Merrill is implying the Dalish are somehow freer and better than City Elves.
He knows PERFECTLY WELL the Dalish haven't done a thing for City Elves.
He's also an Andrastrian so there's also that. Anders showed some serious racism when he was surprised that Fenris believed in the Chant. He assumed, like most Thedans it seemed, that elvish Andrastrianism is insincere. Sebastian seems to be one of the few Andrastrians who assumes that Fenris and other elves are sincere.
I think Fenris is the kind of elf who is looking forward rather than at the past.
I think that any orthodox Dalish Inquisitor is better off not bothering with romancing a non-elf... unless the player is willing to roleplay their character in a way that invites conflict and personal growth, there's nothing to be gained from such a pairing.
Pff. People romance their mages with Fenris, their blood-mages with Leliana, their devoted andrastians pro-templars with Anders and suddenly the dalish Inquisitor, who is no longer a dalish really (at least for the time being) is suddenly a big no-no. Funny as hell.
Anders showed some serious racism when he was surprised that Fenris believed in the Chant.
Hm?
Pff. People romance their mages with Fenris, their blood-mages with Leliana, their devoted andrastians pro-templars with Anders and suddenly the dalish Inquisitor, who is no longer a dalish really (at least for the time being) is suddenly a big no-no. Funny as hell.
Hm?
To be fair, Rivalry Romance is great because it's very clear Fenris isn't sure if he hates or loves Mage Hawke.
The sheer confusion is great.
:-)
Zevran's mother had a relationship with a woodcutter elf (city elf) and when he died, instead of returning to her clan, she became a prostitute in order to live. This would suggest that she knew her clan would not take her back.
Feynriel's mother had gone one step worse and had a relationship with a human. It may be that her true clan was back in Antiva and that she travelled to Kirkwall with her lover. Even so, she feels she is an outcast because of her choice.
Merrill sympathises with the city elves because she is now living among them. She has been cut off from her clan; although Marethari clearly hopes that she will see sense and return. It is part of Dalish culture that you are guided by the Keeper and elders of the clan. Merrill continually rejects their advice, again putting herself in role of outcast. So romancing Hawke is hardly the same for her as for a Dalish who is living in the clan and never rebelled.
The Warden had no choice but to leave the clan. At the beginning the farewell seems permanent. It was implied that joining the Grey Wardens meant leaving the clan for good and therefore I must admit that the change at the end where you can say you are going back did seem odd at the time. The Blight might be over but there are still darkspawn to fight; else why bother having people join the Grey Wardens between Blights? The lore has never been consistent on this. Originally the Grey Wardens is a lifelong commitment, then Alistair, Anders, Fiona and the Warden can up a leave if they want to. I feel really sorry for Jordy and his wife; the only guy who gets killed for not wanting to be a Warden.
Anyway, back to the Dalish. Whilst not all clans may be as extreme in their views as the Keeper in Masked Empire, they do look down on city elves and they are hostile, in thoughts if not in deeds, towards humans. I don't think they have enough contact with dwarves or qunari to form an opinion on them but it is likely it would be similar to their views on humans, without the history to back it up. A relationship with a dwarf or qunari would be condemned for the same reason as a human; any offspring would not be elves. Dalish are small enough in numbers as it is and there is great emphasis on the need to remember what it is to be an elf; I would imagine that reproducing with the correct sort of mate would be part of that.
Pff. People romance their mages with Fenris, their blood-mages with Leliana, their devoted andrastians pro-templars with Anders and suddenly the dalish Inquisitor, who is no longer a dalish really (at least for the time being) is suddenly a big no-no. Funny as hell.
I agree, but this implies that LobselVith8 has done such things, which is not necessarily true. For all we know, he may have refused to romance certain characters with certain PCs based on how it would effect the roleplay... he seems more into that aspect of the game than some, so that's what I'd assume.
Hahren Paivel proceeds to say that, and then calls out Merril for leaving the clan to go to Kirkwall.
So one hypocritical old Elf doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, especially when you considering, you are just citing one instance anyway.
I cited four <.<
One from every clan presented.
He calls out Merrill for leaving her clan to pursue a mad hobby with blood magic. Fenris says something similar, except in a much more scathing tone. But if you wanted other examples there is also Merrill herself (who does consider city elves to be elves). There's the Cam Clarke elf from Velanna's old clan who is friendly to whoever the Warden is. There's also the Dalish Elves that rescued Alarith from bandits. Plus there's Lanaya of course. Her exact words for the City Elves are "Those of our people living in such a place, surrounded by stone and indifference" she also looks forward to a day when "all elves" including city elves "will reclaim their former glory".
Universal Hatred of City Elves is not really the "grand scheme of things" any more than the reverse.
Also, City Elves aren't really any better. They often say the same thing about Dalish Elves AND elves who leave the alienage. Briala muses that half of them would attack Felessan on sight if they knew he was Dalish.
Zevran's mother had a relationship with a woodcutter elf (city elf) and when he died, instead of returning to her clan, she became a prostitute in order to live. This would suggest that she knew her clan would not take her back.
We're talking about a world where bandits and wild animals roam freely in the wilderness. There is no guarantee that a single elf would make it back to her clan safely even if she knew where to find them (remember, they move around constantly). Returning to her clan would have been no easy task, and it was probably safer to just stay in Antiva City.
We're talking about a world where bandits and wild animals roam freely in the wilderness. There is no guarantee that a single elf would make it back to her clan safely even if she knew where to find them (remember, they move around constantly). Returning to her clan would have been no easy task, and it was probably safer to just stay in Antiva City.
Plus, by being raised in Antiva, he'd have greater chance of people actually liking him.
*sigh* Always out of likes at the worst times... meh. I agree. The fact that Dalish culture is intolerant to the point of supremacy cannot be disputed. This is true to some degree in all examples we have seen, and is one of the basic principles that defines Dalish culture. Whether this is a good or bad thing, however, is a matter of debate...
I think that any orthodox Dalish Inquisitor is better off not bothering with romancing a non-elf... unless the player is willing to roleplay their character in a way that invites conflict and personal growth, there's nothing to be gained from such a pairing.
I'm not certain why you feel that way. If you're comparing the Dalish to their city brethren, then I disagree. Some of the Dalish look down on city elves, but some of the city elves look down on the Dalish as "savages", and even view elves who try to live outside the Alienage as "flat ears". According to hahren Sarethia of the Highever Alienage, "Here, we're among family. We look out for each other. Here, we do what we can to remember the old ways. The flat-ears who have gone out there, they're stuck. They'll never be human, and they've gone and thrown away being elven, too. So where does that leave them? Nowhere."
However, the flaws held by some of the populace of Dalish and Andrastian elves doesn't condemn them or their cultures in their entirety.
If you're addressing the Dalish in terms of their relations to humans, things are simply antagonistic with Andrastian humans, for a number of reasons. However, there is supposed to be a semi-permanent colony of Dalish living near Rivain, with humans who follow the Natural Order. Gaider said, "A few are quite benevolent and live in peace with nearby humans -- the Rivaini city of Llomerryn is known to have a semi-permanent Dalish encampment on its outskirts, and trade with the elves for their crafts is encouraged."
To be fair, Rivalry Romance is great because it's very clear Fenris isn't sure if he hates or loves Mage Hawke.
It's great to see those, but I don't have the heart to actually do one in-game myself.
Pissed off Fenris is always funny to watch tho. 
Like, "Let me guess, you're upset. Again!"
What was that about Anders being racist? I don't remember Fenris mentioning the Chant at all...
I agree, but this implies that LobselVith8 has done such things, which is not necessarily true. For all we know, he may have refused to romance certain characters with certain PCs based on how it would effect the roleplay... he seems more into that aspect of the game than some, so that's what I'd assume.
I just wanted to point out the ugly truth, that if people can do something, they probably would. Be it a rivalmance or selling Fenris. They do what they want.
Also, City Elves aren't really any better. They often say the same thing about Dalish Elves AND elves who leave the alienage.
They don't deny the city elves that leave the alienage as being elves ._.
Forget it, guys, it's Thedas.
Everyone is one sort of racist scumbag or another.
I think Fenris is taking exception to the fact that Merrill is implying the Dalish are somehow freer and better than City Elves.
A theory that is easily disproven by the fact that Fenris takes virtually every single thing Merrill says for three entire Acts in the worst light. The way Anders and Fenris treat Merrill is downright horrible.
He knows PERFECTLY WELL the Dalish haven't done a thing for City Elves.
Fenris refuses to even discuss the plight of the Alienage elves with Merrill when she expresses concern for them. He's also not a native of the Alienage, as he's a Tevinter elf who was forced into slavery.
He's also an Andrastrian so there's also that. Anders showed some serious racism when he was surprised that Fenris believed in the Chant. He assumed, like most Thedans it seemed, that elvish Andrastrianism is insincere. Sebastian seems to be one of the few Andrastrians who assumes that Fenris and other elves are sincere.
Anders spends time trying to convince Merrill that her Dalish views on spirits are wrong, so I don't see why you think Anders believes Andrastian views are insincere when he wants Merrill to believe as he does - as the Chantry preaches.
I think Fenris is the kind of elf who is looking forward rather than at the past.
That happens in Act III with Hawke's encouragement; the fact that he keeps looking back and letting his hatred cage him is part of his character arc.
Anders spends time trying to convince Merrill that her Dalish views on spirits are wrong, so I don't see why you think Anders believes Andrastian views are insincere, when he wants Merrill to believe as he does - as the Chantry preaches.
I believe Anders found Fenris believing to be surprising.
Anders is genuinely shocked when the conversation comes up about suicide as an alternative to slavery and Fenris says that he doesn't commit suicide because he's worried about the afterlife. He then quotes a bit of Andraste Chant and Anders is surprised that Fenris believes in the Chant. Fenris goes on to say that he has to believe it as some things have to be worse than slavery.
I don't really have a lot to add here, Lob, that hasn't been said before.
An orthodox, or traditionalist, straight male Dalish would likely abstain rather than engage in a true romance with one of the two humans offered. There is, literally, no future in the Dalish community for such a relationship. Their partner would not be welcome in Dalish society, and their children wouldn't even be elves, much less Dalish.
Now if you're just looking for a dalliance, well, that's different.
They don't deny the city elves that leave the alienage as being elves ._.
Their codex about Alienage Culture literally says "They have thrown away being elven."
Their codex about Alienage Culture literally says "They have thrown away being elven."
In so far as being part of the alienage community, and not having the protection and understanding that brings.
It isn't saying, they aren't racially elven, like the Dalish exclaim.
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