276 réponses à ce sujet

[Xiltas]

The lack of things to complain about.

[falconlord5]

The fans.

[Beerfish]

Immature straight boys who think that a game has to fulfill their sexual fantasies will most likely the biggest crybabies. I can already imagine them complain that it's not fair that they get only two options while straight females get many more options and that the females are "ugly and manly".

Second to that I think the 8 ability limit will be the next big complaint.

Lastly, I think the next vocal group/s will complain why is Leliana alive or/and why they can't have sex with her.

Yeah seeing as it has been the other way around over the years with immature people from other sexual factions acting just as badly as people are speculating straight boys will react.  Everyone is totally equal when it comes to complaining about not getting what they want or they deserve.

[FiveThreeTen]

The possibe absence of meaningful impact of your actions and choices. But we could be surprised.

[cindercatz]

Immature straight boys who think that a game has to fulfill their sexual fantasies will most likely the biggest crybabies. I can already imagine them complain that it's not fair that they get only two options while straight females get many more options and that the females are "ugly and manly".
 

This condescension is so hypocritical, sorry. I'll live with it (Hey, I like Josephine, and I can role a lesbian for Sera just as easily as I role other female characters with the male LIs), but all you're really doing is attacking people because you don't like their romantic tastes, because they don't support the image you want to see projected. Do you make the same point when straight women complain about their options vs. mens' in Mass Effect 3? And that game requires specific ME2 playthroughs to even have those available in a given pt. It's the same thing. One bias is no better than the other.

 

And yeah, I know about certain devs' comments about "privelege" and how people are using that to justify their bias, but it doesn't. I'm not begrudging the ladies their five options, but that doesn't mean men's tastes and attraction should conform to whatever image you want projected or shut up. I don't want Mass Effect to turn into the guy game and Dragon Age the girl game, do you? I want them designed so that everybody can enjoy them equally, gender or orientation. So it's not any better to dismiss one group than another.

 

Side note, OT: Yes, I have a problem with the whole 'privileged, ergo less relevant' line of thought. It's offensive not only because it glorifies the idea of taking away something from some as somehow justified and beneficial to others as if you can't just provide equally for both, and secondly because it assumes some imaginary advantage my entire life experience says doesn't exist. Economic privilege, that's unfortunately real. In a given place, any given kind of discrimination is still out there and most likely always will be somewhere from some angle, and the vast majority of people will experience it somewhere in their life. The rest, the big 'straight male' assumption for instance, is some other world that doesn't exist here and now, certainly not at a personal level. Speaking just as a gamer, there's not some smorgasbord of options geared to my preference that's not there for others. Because I'm not some generic demographic pool, I'm a specific RPG oriented gamer that pretty much has the same relevant gaming options you do (edit: or less.. I'm priced out of PC right now). So let's treat each other with equal respect and value.

[coldflame]

The lack of things to complain about.

You either have been living under a rock or just in denial.

 

Let me give you a few things that people don't like.

 

1. 8 slots for quickbar (on pc)

2. Not enough romance options

3. Too many roomace options

4. Not enough of the female inquisitor on game cover

5. No cross-platform play for multiplayer

6. No cross-generation (console) play for multiplayer

7. Microtransaction for multiplayer

8. RNG for multiplayer

9. Have a multiplayer for this game (some people really hate multiplayer)

..... etc

These are just a few examples. There are actually many more that people have been complaning about.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Immature straight boys who think that a game has to fulfill their sexual fantasies will most likely the biggest crybabies. I can already imagine them complain that it's not fair that they get only two options while straight females get many more options and that the females are "ugly and manly".

Second to that I think the 8 ability limit will be the next big complaint.

Lastly, I think the next vocal group/s will complain why is Leliana alive or/and why they can't have sex with her.

 

It is frustrating to see the politically correct brigade, march with their falsely misplaced sense of righteousness, equate all straight male gamers to misogynists or privileged therefore less relevant 

 

This is, at the end of the day, a fantasy game. Let me repeat that. This is a fantasy game. An interactive medium concerning the fantastical. The fantastical is what we IMAGINE, not REALITY. It is what you dream about, what you daydream about and what you imagine about. 

 

When the premise of the entertainment medium itself is interactive of the fantastical, anything can go. Freedom of thought is the right of all sentient beings. The freedom to dream, to daydream and to imagine is the freedom of everybody. 

 

So your act of painting male gamers as straight immature boys who are crybabies because their fantasies of the female form does not match your is foolish. It is a fantasy game so let the players fantasize. We are not actively acting on it in the same way the women who are really into Varric are not going around stalking and getting all wet for short men with nice body hair in real life. 

 

Those who come and tell others and label them a certain way because of imaginations and fantasies...because of thoughts... you are the Orwellian Thought Police. It's worse actually. You are acting like the Orwellian Thought Police because of the sex, the sexuality and the skin color of these people, three things which NO ONE gets to freaking choose, things which people just are born with. Straight males are straight males. Gay lesbians are gay lesbians. Transexuals are transexuals. 

 

So rather than being all self-righteous about it, perhaps it would be good if you let gamers of the fantasy genre, regardless of their phenotypes and genotypes, freely fantasize, daydream, dream and imagine what they want.

 

The punishment comes after the crime, the judgement comes after the action has been done in the real world. The punishment and judgements do not do not come solely because someone imagines them or fantasizes them or dreams about them.  

[Mr.Hmm]

The 2 months waiting for the god damn game T_T

 

Been waiting for this since DA:2 was released, because to say the truth DA:2 felt like a experiment to me(like they were testing new ideas)

[Vulpe]

Yeah seeing as it has been the other way around over the years with immature people from other sexual factions acting just as badly as people are speculating straight boys will react. Everyone is totally equal when it comes to complaining about not getting what they want or they deserve.

Indeed you are right. Every forest has it share of unhealthy trees. The statement was strictly referring to this particular case, not in general.

...

Look carefully at the words I used "Immature straight boys". It wasn't a general branding. I was referring to that part of the straight male population that can be considered being part of this category based on the way they react when put in a situation like this. If you look at the numbers, straight males are the biggest group when it comes to the people that play this games and games in general. We were used to getting the biggest and juiciest part of the stake and now we get a smaller share. Based on our numbers and the given situation I think it's a safe to assume that we'll have more crybabies simply because we are more so the chances to find such an individual are bigger than in a smaller demographic group. Also crybaby=/=all complainers. I think you can figure out what I mean by that.

...

Again, I was referring to a subgroup, not the whole group. That's why I used "boys" not "males". And to be clear - it has nothing to do with their physical age.

Also, it doesn't have to do with what they like and what they don't, but with the way they behave when put in a situation like this. It's one thing to be upset and unsatisfied with something thus proceeding to express this feelings and thoughts and another thing to go guns blazing and act as if the people that made the game have some kind of sacred duty to make everything the way you want it to be based on your view of the world and yours only.

[Joseph Warrick]

You either have been living under a rock or just in denial.

 

Let me give you a few things that people don't like.

 

1. 8 slots for quickbar (on pc)

2. Not enough romance options

3. Too many roomace options

4. Not enough of the female inquisitor on game cover

5. No cross-platform play for multiplayer

6. No cross-generation (console) play for multiplayer

7. Microtransaction for multiplayer

8. RNG for multiplayer

9. Have a multiplayer for this game (some people really hate multiplayer)

..... etc

These are just a few examples. There are actually many more that people have been complaning about.

 

Female walking animation - hip swaying even more exaggerated than Hawke's.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*snip*

 

The straight males are not getting a smaller share. They are getting what they have been getting from Dragon Age Origins. The complaints that have been put forth is the options for straight males do not appeal to the majority of straight men. 

 

Specifically speaking, one of the option. Unless they have a mature fetish, most straight men will not go for butch old women in their late 30s. If this was truly not the case, we would see young straight men being married and in being in fulfilling relationships with old women in their late 30s as the norm. If this is truly not the case, then we would see butch short haired women being the standard of beauty that men have. 

 

But we don't and this is not because of sexism or misogyny, it is that women like this do not possess features that appeal to the majority of straight males. 

 

Telling straight males out there that this is not the case, calling them immature, calling them names and saying that they should all embrace this female archetype as attractive is the equivalent of telling women you can't like tough, big, manly guys because reasons and if you do, you are immature straight girls, which is just stupid. Shaming people for their sexual and beauty preferences is stupid. 

 

Why is it that the straight female love interest coincides rather perfectly with the female preferences of wanting males who can protect her and provide for her but not the straight male love interest ? Why is it that the straight female love interest aligns perfectly with female expectation of male beauty but not the straight male ones ? 

 

Look at the list of straight female love interest: Blackwall, Iron Bull, Cullen, Solas. Blackwall, Iron Bull and Cullen are tough and masculine males. Solas is the intelligent and intellectual male. Both appeal to the masses of women out there. 

 

Look at the list of straight male love interest: Cassandra and Josephine. Cassandra is a brash, butch mature female. Josephine is an attractive, reasonably young, ladylike female. Only one of them has qualities that apply to the majority of straight males.

 

This essentially leaves those who do not have mature fetish with one option. That is the complaint that I have been seeing. It is a valid complaint because if one looks into it, you see the hypocrisy at work. You see that straight female standards of masculinity is being celebrated and validated whereas you see the straight male standards of femininity is being restricted which completely goes against the idea of equality.

 

You also see that this is only happening in this Bioware game. In DAO you have Morrigan and Leliana. One is a femme fatale and the other the cute girl, both appeal to the straight male. In DAO you have Alistair and Zevran. One is the sweet nice guy and the other the playboy, both appeal to the straight female. In DA2, you have Isabela and Merrill. One is a playgirl and the other is an innocent naive girl (mostly), both appeal to the straight male. In DA2, you have Fenris and Anders. One is the angsty quiet broody type and the other is the comical but with dark elements male, both appeal to the straight female. 

 

Why is it that this is completely turned on its head for DA:I ? That is the essence of the complaints I am hearing. It is not about the quantity, the quantity has always been the same at 2. It is about the qualities. One has qualities that turn most straight male off. 

 

Additionally, immature straight boys cannot actually play Dragon Age. It is rated at M which means the males who can play it are legally adults, which means they are men and not boys. Also, none of them have come out with guns blazing saying it is a sacred duty, bla bla bla.There have been no shootings, just arguments online. 

 

The problem with them is most of them do not know how formulate an argument properly. However, after speaking to many straight men and asking them why they have issues with the love interest as opposed to shaming them and calling them immature boys , this is what they say and they have a valid argument to make. 

 

Cheers. 

[Joe-Poe]

Female walking animation - hip swaying even more exaggerated than Hawke's.

One can only hope....why would i want a female character that walks like man?

[Joseph Warrick]

Just to balance things out, as a straight dude I like Cassandra Pentaghast very much. And I think it is good for fellow straight males to not let their horizons remain narrow and stagnated by traditional standards that frankly make no sense at all. In ME2, straight females got a dino-bird and a frog man as love interests. Now that's some challenge to old ideas. To a lesser extent Tali was the female counterpart to this. Sadly, she revealed a very traditionally pretty standard human face in ME3. I guess straight males would have cried too much otherwise.

 

At any rate, do not despair. Triss Merigold will always comply with the old traditional standards of beauty, and she will always need rescuing from The Black Ones (wow, that sounds kinda bad, doesn't it). She's waiting for you - if you're into that sort of thing. I don't find her attractive though. To each their own!

 

It goes without saying that I only speak for myself - other straight males will have their own opinions.

[badboy64]

Iron Bull and Josephine are both female and male love interest Ishten. Read about the Romance choices in the Story and Characters fourm if you haven't already.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Iron Bull and Josephine are both female and male love interest Ishten. Read about the Romance choices in the Story and Characters fourm if you haven't already.

 

I have. I am just pointing out the fact that all the straight female love interest coincide and with what women as collective view as sexy and appealing in men whereas that is not the case for the straight male love interest where we have one lady and another butch aunt. 

 

 

Just to balance things out, as a straight dude I like Cassandra Pentaghast very much. And I think it is good for fellow straight males to not let their horizons remain narrow and stagnated by traditional standards that frankly make no sense at all. In ME2, straight females got a dino-bird and a frog man as love interests. Now that's some challenge to old ideas. To a lesser extent Tali was the female counterpart to this. Sadly, she revealed a very traditionally pretty standard human face in ME3. I guess straight males would have cried too much otherwise.

 

At any rate, do not despair. Triss Merigold will always comply with the old traditional standards of beauty, and she will always need rescuing from The Black Ones (wow, that sounds kinda bad, doesn't it). She's waiting for you - if you're into that sort of thing. I don't find her attractive though. To each their own!

 

It goes without saying that I only speak for myself - other straight males will have their own opinions. 

 

What has Mass Effect love interest got to do with Dragon Age love interests ? Different game, different game genres. 

 

Your words sound as if traditional values are all bad and must be challenged for incomprehensible reasons. Challenge ? Sure, but to what end ? For what purpose ? 

 

What is so bad with men liking women who are feminine and ladylike ? If you note, I have not said,at any point, that women should have their notions of what they find sexual in men challenged. Why ? Because I don't think there is something inherently wrong with the straight human female finding a strong masculine male or a intelligent intellectual male as sexually attractive. Similarly, I don't think there is something inherently wrong with the straight human male finding feminine women, femme fatale women, cute women as sexually attractive. 

 

The argument that have been coming up is that Bioware, for the past 2 Dragon Age games, pretty much stuck with love interests that were sexually appealing to both straight men and straight women yet in Inquisition, they threw this principle out of the window. To what end ? Irrational Political correctness ?  The ladies have  beardy, tough and smart men as choices but we only have either a butch or a lady to choose ? 

 

Next you follow up by painting a false and sexist depiction of Triss Merigold. Triss is a sorceress who uses magic to appear beautiful, she is quite old. She can handle her own in fights and battles due to her magical capabilities. She is also extremely manipulative in that she conveniently chooses to leave out the information about Yennefer to Geralt.  You as Geralt can leave her to be rescued by Letho if you want in The Witcher 2. Instead of being intellectually honest, you paint her as some damsel in distress when she is not that. 

 

[aTigerslunch]

I like Cassie, if she was available to be bi, my female inquisitors would be joining her, since I don't play many male characters.  I did for Morrigan, and since she was the only one restricted for males, I only needed to bother playing DAO once as male. DA2, could romance everyone with the female so didn't care to see the male version. So, Cassie will require me to roll a male for her, even will consider Dorian, so that is now 2 males which, I never got that far in previous titles. I prefer Josie first though for myself. Sera will be second and then Cassie as far as females are concerned, due to preference of playing females in games that give me that choice. 

 

Inquisition, Destiny and Sunset will be female characters, where as Batman, Halo, Legends (mixed), AC, and Gears will all be males, except that one without a choice of being male. May also try Witcher 3, which is another male.  Hence why I tend to be female more times in Bioware games. EDIT forgot to add CoD unless it has a female option, haven't so far.

[Monster A-Go Go]

I have. I am just pointing out the fact that all the straight female love interest coincide and with what women as collective view as sexy and appealing in men whereas that is not the case for the straight male love interest where we have one lady and another butch aunt. 

Or maybe you're just assuming what straight women want based on your own preconceived notions and you're projecting what straight men will like based on your personal tastes in women.

[cindercatz]

@Vulpe

I understand your meaning, and I appreciate the distinction. Not everything I wrote was squarely aimed at you, I'm sure you know. But this has turned into an us/them problem in some quarters here, and it's better if we head that off and steer things in a more sensitive, positive direction at some point. Coming from my perspective, what I dread more are the poorly voiced frustrations where maybe there's a valid basis, but the result might be cringe inducing, or worse, legitimately offensive, and then the response is that people are ostracized over innate qualities or voicing a personal preference, and alienated over natural reactions. Both sides are inflamed when one image is being held out as something to promote, and those who don't support it being dismissed or rejected with prejudice is supported or at least tacitly approved because they don't fall in a preferred demographic group, whatever that is. So I made my statement about it. Everybody should be given equal respect, and these games and community leaders involved in their promotion should also treat us all equally, if that's the goal. No matter what societal goals are there, we need to respect that someone's natural attraction, for instance, should be accepted for what it is, even if their stated delivery could stand to see some improvement.

[Joseph Warrick]

I like the point that women got what they wanted while men didn't.

 

Solas isn't exactly Richard Gere. He looks like Nosferatu. I'd compare him with Thane to be honest, fugly but "profound" and possibly all dramatic. And Cullen and Blackwall are about the same age as Cassandra. Josephine looks younger than the rest to me.

 

So is it only a "mature fetish" when the LI is a woman? Looks to me like those standards are pretty inequal themselves. We're quite used to see men going for younger women and women going for older men. It's tradition... inequal tradition. I'd say DA:I pushes for equality in fact by having all the LIs be roughly the same age. That age happens to be greater than in previous titles. I like that, personally, because I am aging as well. Btw, a 22 year old that wants to romance Wynne has a mature fetish. A 22 year old that wants to romance a 30 year old doesn't have a mature fetish. wtf. Your saying that makes me wonder if you're even over 20... but that ain't my business.

 

Question: are the inquisitors in their early twenties or will they be roughly the same age as Blackwall et al? I really see nothing to discuss if so. If the inquisitors are a lot younger, then women are already used to that scenario... men... well, we're seeing the reaction already. Oops. It's curious that there weren't many women complaining in 2010 when we got hot chicks while they got two aliens and Jacob. They tried it out. The Garrusmance proved to be quite fun. So take it as an opportunity to experience something new! Or just date Josephine if for you 30 years and short hair is just too much in a woman. Or do like me and go for a friendship instead. The Morrigan friendship was very nice.

 

You ask: what's wrong with liking women that are younger than Cassandra? Answer: Nothing. Something else was decided for this game however. There are plenty of more comfortable games that fit traditional standards better. It's a big world. There's room for many varied things. It's nice to have something somewhat different for a change. I wouldn't want to rescue nubile Triss and bed her in every game I play. Boooring.

[fhs33721]

I'm fully expecting various complaints like:

 

"Blablabla Illusion of choice. Why can't I just do [insert downright stupid idea that would make the narrative even worse] instead of being railroaded into [insert choices I personally don't like]."

 

"A Companion/NPC disagreed with me, the allmighty Protagonist. How dare they do anything but grovel in the dirt at my feet?Worst Bioware character ever."

 

"I totally decapitated Leliana, even though the chances that this actually happend in my playthrough are pretty low. Why is she back Bioware Whyyy? You don't care about fans anymore."

 

"I don't like charcter X. Worst game ever."

 

"Blablabla cutscene defeat, blablabla my inquisitor would have killled everyone in plain sight just by being awesome, blablabla Autodialogue blablabla."

 

"I don't like the direction of the story, therefore the game is objectively bad. Blablabla EAware is evil."

 

"This game isn't like [insert decades old video game] and that was totally disapointing even though nothing ever indicated that it will be like [insert decades old video game]."

 

and finally:

 

"Why can't go around and kill everyone I don't like like a complete mad(wo)man. I wanted to kill [insert random companion\NPC\faction\race\species\former protagonist\fauna\flora\ everything of these]. Bioware plz."

[HaHa365]

Um...lack of a social life after release?

[Roses]

I don't know why we even started this topic. I bet DA:I is gonna lock me to the screen, take away many hours and social life, and then after it's over leave me speechless. People worked their asses long and hard to deliver a good game. We should be thankful, nothing else!

[badboy64]

 

I have. I am just pointing out the fact that all the straight female love interest coincide and with what women as collective view as sexy and appealing in men whereas that is not the case for the straight male love interest where we have one lady and another butch aunt. 

 

 

 

What has Mass Effect love interest got to do with Dragon Age love interests ? Different game, different game genres. 

 

Your words sound as if traditional values are all bad and must be challenged for incomprehensible reasons. Challenge ? Sure, but to what end ? For what purpose ? 

 

What is so bad with men liking women who are feminine and ladylike ? If you note, I have not said,at any point, that women should have their notions of what they find sexual in men challenged. Why ? Because I don't think there is something inherently wrong with the straight human female finding a strong masculine male or a intelligent intellectual male as sexually attractive. Similarly, I don't think there is something inherently wrong with the straight human male finding feminine women, femme fatale women, cute women as sexually attractive. 

 

The argument that have been coming up is that Bioware, for the past 2 Dragon Age games, pretty much stuck with love interests that were sexually appealing to both straight men and straight women yet in Inquisition, they threw this principle out of the window. To what end ? Irrational Political correctness ?  The ladies have  beardy, tough and smart men as choices but we only have either a butch or a lady to choose ? 

 

Next you follow up by painting a false and sexist depiction of Triss Merigold. Triss is a sorceress who uses magic to appear beautiful, she is quite old. She can handle her own in fights and battles due to her magical capabilities. She is also extremely manipulative in that she conveniently chooses to leave out the information about Yennefer to Geralt.  You as Geralt can leave her to be rescued by Letho if you want in The Witcher 2. Instead of being intellectually honest, you paint her as some damsel in distress when she is not that. 

 

I am a straight male but only play female characters 100% of the time. Sorry Cassandra. The only LI I will miss out on. No loss for me.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

Combat. Multiplayer. Romances. Customization.

[Monster A-Go Go]

The only thing I really have to complain about is the release date.  My friend's having a wedding on November 20th, which means I get to spend the day after release and the following five days on an international trip...then I get to avoid the internet and all spoilers while I catch up.