60 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

Source?  I read Masked Empire, don't recall Celene pushing war with Nevarra as an active "gambit".  The Nevarrans were making aggressive noises and pushing the border, but that'd be a problem *regardless* of who takes the throne.

 

I agree. In TME Nevarra is mentioned in the terms of "Nevarran aggression". The last time there was war it was Nevarra who took Orlesian lands from them, not the other way around. Gaspard actually wanted Ferelden as a weaker victim to bully. No Orlesian candidate has expressed any intention of invading Nevarra, and in fact Celene mentions twice the fear that Nevarra could take Orlesian lands again.

 

As for the idea, I see the problems. In any union, one side gets more benefits than the other. There are historical examples of that.

 

However, that doesn't have to mean that one side gets all the benefits and the other side only gets the drawbacks. The famous Loghain's line "Peace just means fighting someone else's enemies in someone else's war for someone else's reasons" has a corollary: peace also means someone else fighting your enemies in your wars for your reasons. It doesn't have to be a one-way alliance, if done well, and yes, there are historical examples of that too.

[Willowhugger]

I guess I see it from the perspective that Maric and Loghain fought an absolutely brutal civil war to regain Fereldan independence and now the Orlaisians are trying to get it back through subterfuge rather than military conquest.

[Pierce Miller]

I had an evil thought that I'd like to share with ya'll.  So, what if they did something like this:

 

You get varying options for who to support for the rulership of Orlais between Celene or Gaspard (or perhaps some version of Both or Neither, or "I think it's time for a republican gov't here").  What if one of the options looked like this:

 

If you want real, lasting political stability in the area, the way to achieve it is to do the following: you have to put the person on the Orlesian throne who can marry the person you put on the Ferelden throne in Origins.  So, if you have Alistair on the Ferelden throne, to achieve lasting peace, you have to put Celene on the Orlesian throne and they have to get married.  Or if you put Anora on the Ferelden throne, you have to put Gaspard on the Orlesian throne and convince them to get married.  I'd find that interesting, because it might put you in a situation where to enthrone people you like, you wind up setting them against each other (say, if you liked both Anora and Celene--they wind up fighting with each other.)

 

But here's the super-evil thought.  REAL lasting peace means having a direct heir.  Celene was not too thrilled with that idea in The Masked Empire, and Alistair probably isn't all that fertile anyway since he's an ex-Warden.  So maybe the BEST best option would be Gaspard + Anora, resulting in an heir for the merged countries.

 

Who would be willing to day "I hate both of them, but it's worth it for the future peace of the region?"

 

Interesting, no?  And the cool (and evil) part to me is that they could actually do that!  It'd be a neat and significant carry over of who you made the ruler of Ferelden, but it probably wouldn't have a dramatic effect on events in the game so they could actually pull it off.

Literally none of this is evil.

[Ruairi46]

I'd like to be pro fereldon and aid them in whatever form I can, however I don't know how to make this make sense considering I won't be a Fereldon :/ *Thinking intensifies.*

[Willowhugger]

I'd like to be pro fereldon and aid them in whatever form I can, however I don't know how to make this make sense considering I won't be a Fereldon :/ *Thinking intensifies.

 

Human Mage/Warrior/Rogue: Your mother was Fereldan, driven out of her home by the brutality of your Orlais overlords!

Dalish Elf: Fought with many Fereldans during the Blight--discovered they weren't half-bad Shem.

 

Tal-Vashoth: Was given shelter by Fereldans when fleeing from Qun.

 

Dwarves: Greatly admires Fereldan Warden and Alistair for their role in defeating Jarvia.

[Pierce Miller]

I'll if given the choice will support Ferelden, especially considering what country it's based on.

[Willowhugger]

I'll if given the choice will support Ferelden, especially considering what country it's based on.

 

Sebastian's scottish accent threw me and I wondered if Starkhaven had been settled by Highever expats.

[Gervaise]

No matter who marries who, if Ferelden and Orlais was united by marriage it would basically mean the end of an independent Ferelden.   Orlesian Chevaliers could legitimately be stationed in Ferelden in order to prevent further rebellion and Orlais would view Ferelden as simply a province in their Empire.  Any children would simply reinforce this hold over Ferelden.

 

It is highly likely that the Landsmeet would never allow it to get that far and as soon as the marriage was announced, they would depose the Ferelden monarch.     Currently there is an official peace between the two nations and that is about as much as should be hoped for.     I very much doubt that Anora would agree to such a union, since she is her father's daughter, and if no Ferelden could match her father in her eyes, there would be no hope for an Orlesian doing so.

 

Alistair might agree to such a union if advised to do so by Eamon.   The latter always seemed to regard it as more important to have a Callenhad heir on the throne than a decent monarch and of course he married an Orlesian himself.     I was always a bit wary of Eamon, particularly after Return to Ostagar, so if not marrying Alistair myself, I tended to try and marry him to Anora, so she could advise him rather than Eamon.     

 

So apart from my first Warden, where he got King Alistair to fight Loghain and so Anora wouldn't marry him because he killed her father, I always ended up with either Alistair married to Anora, Anora solo with Alistair in the Wardens, or either Alistair or Anora married to a Cousland noble.     I tended to trust Anora or my Warden to ensure the safety of Ferelden far more than Eamon.

[Willowhugger]

Of course, the game might encourage Alistair to put aside his Warden wife or Anora to marry Celene.

Or Anora to put aside the Warden.

 

Which would suck.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I'd like to be pro fereldon and aid them in whatever form I can, however I don't know how to make this make sense considering I won't be a Fereldon :/ *Thinking intensifies.*

You can build a very strong head canon background for your Inquisitor that somehow strongly relate to Ferelden, or as a role player choose to be a character who sympathize toward Ferelden because they are poor nation who suffered from the Blight, a civil war and now the Breach and also Orlais is looking to conquer them again through political marriage or by force, but it'll be difficult since the Inquisitor origin is not related to Ferelden directly and your task is to stop the Breach.

[Wulfram]

I don't think a common heir would be good for lasting peace between Fereldan and Orlais.

[Mistic]

Human Mage/Warrior/Rogue: Your mother was Fereldan, driven out of her home by the brutality of your Orlais overlords!

Dalish Elf: Fought with many Fereldans during the Blight--discovered they weren't half-bad Shem.

 

Tal-Vashoth: Was given shelter by Fereldans when fleeing from Qun.

 

Dwarves: Greatly admires Fereldan Warden and Alistair for their role in defeating Jarvia.

 

Mm, but that it's making a lot of assumptions about the backgrounds that might not be supported by the game. What if we take what we know and extrapolate?

 

-The game will start in Haven, which will be our first base. So the Inquisitor might have had to travel through Ferelden to reach that place, and was enamoured by the country.

-Parts of the game will actually take place in Ferelden. Maybe the Inquisitor will like Fereldans better and be more sympathetic to them.

 

But sometimes I think people mix "pro-Ferelden" and "anti-Orlesian". Ferelden isn't really a nice place, and if what people want to do is be anti Orlesian imperialism, there are other reasons for that without becoming pro-Ferelden.

[Elfquisitor]

It would be fun if a male human Inqusitor can marry Celene, and if a female Inqusitor could marry Gasprad.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nah i would never gave ferelden to orlais but ferelden is probably done after dai and will fall anyway.

[CapivaRasgor]

Am I the only the only one who thinks that a union between Ferelden and Orlais will cause more instability in the region? I mean on short term it might bring peace but to hope that the more traditionalist and war mongering nobles of both nations will magically get along is a bit of a stretch.

Also, someone above said that the current peace standing is the best that could be hoped for, and I'm inclined to agree. Ferelden and Orlais are too culturally different for a lasting union.

[Ruairi46]

1) Bad Idea. My thoughts about Orlais are pretty much in line with Loghain Mac Tir's.

2) For Ferelden!

3) Men aren't 'infertile'. The opposite of virility is sterility.

4) If I can in DA:I, I'll give both Celene and Gaspard the Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette treatment.

Yeah i'm less so pro-Fereldon and more Pro Loghain Mac Tir's Ideals. :3

[Kieran G.]

No matter who marries who, if Ferelden and Orlais was united by marriage it would basically mean the end of an independent Ferelden.   Orlesian Chevaliers could legitimately be stationed in Ferelden in order to prevent further rebellion and Orlais would view Ferelden as simply a province in their Empire.  Any children would simply reinforce this hold over Ferelden.

 

It is highly likely that the Landsmeet would never allow it to get that far and as soon as the marriage was announced, they would depose the Ferelden monarch.     Currently there is an official peace between the two nations and that is about as much as should be hoped for.     I very much doubt that Anora would agree to such a union, since she is her father's daughter, and if no Ferelden could match her father in her eyes, there would be no hope for an Orlesian doing so.

 

Alistair might agree to such a union if advised to do so by Eamon.   The latter always seemed to regard it as more important to have a Callenhad heir on the throne than a decent monarch and of course he married an Orlesian himself.     I was always a bit wary of Eamon, particularly after Return to Ostagar, so if not marrying Alistair myself, I tended to try and marry him to Anora, so she could advise him rather than Eamon.     

 

So apart from my first Warden, where he got King Alistair to fight Loghain and so Anora wouldn't marry him because he killed her father, I always ended up with either Alistair married to Anora, Anora solo with Alistair in the Wardens, or either Alistair or Anora married to a Cousland noble.     I tended to trust Anora or my Warden to ensure the safety of Ferelden far more than Eamon.

Would ferelden truly suffer under Celene's empire though? Yes she plays the game, and does what ever she can to stay in power, but isn't that a good thing, she works the nobles around and get them to do what she wants and even tried to do good things for the elves.

 

And before anyone bring up halamshiral. what Celene did was what any monarch would do, she tried to end it quietly but since they were rebeling against her rule she had to end it swiftly like any ruler would do to any rebelling city, elven or otherwise.

 

I just think a united orlais and ferelden wouldn't be that bad of a thing. it might be able to stand up against a qunari invasion which at the time ferelden would never be able to.

[Kieran G.]

Am I the only the only one who thinks that a union between Ferelden and Orlais will cause more instability in the region? I mean on short term it might bring peace but to hope that the more traditionalist and war mongering nobles of both nations will magically get along is a bit of a stretch.

Also, someone above said that the current peace standing is the best that could be hoped for, and I'm inclined to agree. Ferelden and Orlais are too culturally different for a lasting union.

I completely agree. i just think that a union might actually be stronger if they could unite. i know in the dragon age that won't happen, but i think a united Orlais and Ferelden would be better for the south.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Would ferelden truly suffer under Celene's empire though? Yes she plays the game, and does what ever she can to stay in power, but isn't that a good thing, she works the nobles around and get them to do what she wants and even tried to do good things for the elves.

 

And before anyone bring up halamshiral. what Celene did was what any monarch would do, she tried to end it quietly but since they were rebeling against her rule she had to end it swiftly like any ruler would do to any rebelling city, elven or otherwise.

 

I just think a united orlais and ferelden wouldn't be that bad of a thing. it might be able to stand up against a qunari invasion which at the time ferelden would never be able to.

Yep it will orlesians want control ferelden and never will see it as equal and celene will do everything to please nobles as we saw pretty much it will go bad for ferelden citizens considering also fact that corruption in orlais is huge i can see pretty much things going slowly towards how they were before ferelden independence.

[Kieran G.]

Yep it will orlesians want control ferelden and never will see it as equal and celene will do everything to please nobles as we saw pretty much it will go bad for ferelden citizens considering also fact that corruption in orlais is huge i can see pretty much things going slowly towards how they were before ferelden independence.

Because Gaspard would totes be a better leader. or should Orlais just disappear? also Celene never would sleep with anyone. we saw that, she refused marriage which would have brought peace to Orlais. instead she just slept with her hand maiden. 

 

And are you telling me Anora or Alistair are better rulers? Alistair who only got the throne because of our warden and Arl Eamon, or Anora who would literally sleep with anyone to get power, which we see with Cailan and than Alistair or our warden. and at least Orlais has lasted centuries, Ferelden falls into chaos every century.

 

I would love Ferelden to be independent but i'm not stupid. they are truly a weak nation, with barely enough infrastructure to support the nation. and the people barely have hope, you see that in DA2 when king Alistairs asks you to return saying the nation needs people like you who can give hope.  

 

No. Ferelden's women would be raped. Her men beaten or killed. Her fields and farms destroyed or stolen in the name of the Empress/Emperor of Orlais and the Maker.

 

No thanks. I'd sooner accept Tevinter rule.

Yeah because Ferelden wasn't like that already, nobles and guard weren't raping the woman in Ferelden, nope, not at all. remember the kind of land it is, half of it is barbarian territory and the other is where any peasant can get the throne, as we see with Logain and his daughter. don't even pretend Ferelden is a peaceful place. at least Orlais can stop invasions from foreign powers

 

Edit: Thedas needs to be united against threats like the breach, the Mage-Templar war, the Qunari and of course the blight, we see that perfectly in DA:O where Logain dooms Ferelden when he turns Warden and Chevaliers back.

[Pierce Miller]

Sebastian's scottish accent threw me and I wondered if Starkhaven had been settled by Highever expats.

I always saw Kirkwall as a melting pot of sorts, I feel like it may have been invaded and taking over often so it's entirely possible that starkhaven has some ferelden ancestry.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because Gaspard would totes be a better leader. or should Orlais just disappear? also Celene never would sleep with anyone. we saw that, she refused marriage which would have brought peace to Orlais. instead she just slept with her hand maiden. 

 

And are you telling me Anora or Alistair are better rulers? Alistair who only got the throne because of our warden and Arl Eamon, or Anora who would literally sleep with anyone to get power, which we see with Cailan and than Alistair or our warden. and at least Orlais has lasted centuries, Ferelden falls into chaos every century.

 

I would love Ferelden to be independent but i'm not stupid. they are truly a weak nation, with barely enough infrastructure to support the nation. and the people barely have hope, you see that in DA2 when king Alistairs asks you to return saying the nation needs people like you who can give hope.  

 

Yeah because Ferelden wasn't like that already, nobles and guard weren't raping the woman in Ferelden, nope, not at all. remember the kind of land it is, half of it is barbarian territory and the other is where any peasant can get the throne, as we see with Logain and his daughter. don't even pretend Ferelden is a peaceful place. at least Orlais can stop invasions from foreign powers

 

Edit: Thedas needs to be united against threats like the breach, the Mage-Templar war, the Qunari and of course the blight, we see that perfectly in DA:O where Logain dooms Ferelden when he turns Warden and Chevaliers back.

Well gaspard would be better leader for orlais but both are bad for ferelden so i hope i can weaken orlais.She would but she wanted power for herelsf so well...

 

For ferelden they are much better orlais is old country ferelden is new without independence from orlais ferelden rly lose any worth to me so well...

 

Where you have any info on that? Pretty much bann vaughan is as far only example of that of course there are more but level of corruption in ferelden depends on individual see couslands and howe in orlais it is pretty much encouraged.