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[Hero]

I've been really agonizing over what choices I want to import to DA:I and I would like some (more) help.

 

I want to make a Human Noble who is undeniably a "Good Guy" and an example of "Good is not soft" and "Good is not dumb" and maybe even a "Knight in Sour Armor" (check tvtropes.org for more info on those) but I keep worrying that he's too much of a "Marty Stu".

 

So, what should I do to avoid making him too "perfect"? What choices should I take?

 

P.S. Sorry if all these questions are getting annoying.

[Elhanan]

For me, I refused to save those that were acting like Howe or his men; no Zevran or Sten for him. This made him less compassionate than he might have been, had he not forgotten the look of horror on the faces of those in the room of his nephew. This seemed to be distinctive from other sessions for me.

[luna1124]

I just get into the character and make decisions based on the personality I imagine for them. I have killed Zevran instead of recruiting him, but always recruit Sten.

[Corker]

You can take a page from Loghain's book and be utterly convinced of your rightness, and never listen to anybody whose "lies" try to convince you otherwise. This closes off some of the too-perfect "third way" choices.

Connor's an abomination? Kid has to die.
Werewolves are in the way? Got to die.

You could go either way at the Tower, but I think, once you've met Wynne and the kids, that working to save the mages is the more 'good guy' thing to do. But you could argue that "good is not soft/dumb" and kill them all, because abominations. (Especially as a Cousland - you've been raised to think of magic as a dark force of evil temptation.)

I'd still eliminate the Anvil of the Void, but pick whatever king of Orzammar seems right to you.

The Landsmeet is a great place to make a Cousland more complex. Or, if you don't let Alistair walk, take the Warden-Commander ending and carry that guilt.

[Jayce]

I took the approach that he's the younger sibling of one of the most powerful families in Ferelden, he doesn't have the same responsibilities as his dad or his older bro and he's already got a nephew to displace him from inheriting Highever if anything happens to them.

 

I figure there's a lot of the spoilt rich kid in him at the beginning but Bryce and Eleanor don't strike me as the types to raise a complete asshat like Vaughn of Denerim. After that its down to how his experiences effect him and how much he grows up.

 

It feels wrong for me to tell you what decisions to pick. I'd go with what feels right to you for how you see the character.

[Dabrikishaw]

Take the fastest solutions or least optimal solutions to all your problems

 

Broken Circle? Kill the mages

Arl of Redcliffe? Do the Attack on Redcliffe without raising morale. Kill Connor.

Nature of the Beast? Kill the werewolves

The Urn of Sacred Ashes? Kill Kolgrim and his cult and do the Gauntlet at the end normally.

The Anvil of the Void? Do Harrowmont's tasks, side with Branka, keep the Anvil, crown Harrowmont. 

The Landsmeet is up to you, but I personally see doing the Assassination quests and freeing Vaughn to get more votes for the Landsmeet as "Good is not soft" and "Good is not dumb".

[Hydwn]

I did something similar with the first of the five characters I'm sending to the Keep - a Lady Cousland who was a pure chantry believer and a moralist, but still took the Dark Ritual option because she didn't want to die or lose Alistair.  In my headcanon she was a hypocrite, quite happy to tout her beliefs except when they required genuine sacrifice.   

 

Her story became the seed of a Templar Hawke who always sided with the Templars, but let his sister run.  I expect that the templar Trevallyan who'll be my first playthrough will get to make similar choices.

[Hero]

I imagine my character still acting somewhat knightly and chivalrous since that kinda fits his background, so I'd prefer to stay away from things that make him seem like an a**hat and/or unreasonable, I'd certainly prefer that he stay well away from being a zealot (one of the things I hate the most).

 

Edit: I could imagine him being at least somewhat resentful towards being forced into the Grey Wardens and a bit bitter towards his situation. He'd probably become resigned to it over time, but he would still disagree with some of the Grey Wardens policies (mostly the "ends justify the means" and the staunch neutrality stuff). And despite his bitterness towards his situation, he has a hard time turning away peoples pleas for help (a case of "chronic hero syndrome").

[Lavaeolus]

My suggestions:

 

After saving Irving and the other mages, tell Greagoir "You know you can't risk allowing a single blood mage to run free", or something like that. You won't needlessly slaughter every mage, but it'll result in much the same outcome and can be more easily waved under "sad, but necessary".

 

At Redcliffe, kill Connor. If you've done what I said before, this'll be easier to justify. If you want, you can rush to get the mages, having yet to complete Broken Circle, then sadly leave them to be "inspected". Blood magic is evil, costs a life, and corrupts by itself, after all. Have a sad conversation with Connor, be nice, and act very sadly. Perhaps allow Isolde to be the one who puts him out of his misery?

 

I'd advise you not go in with too strong a plan, beyond some vague ideas. Doing what "feels" right for the character at the current moment can be more fun, especially once you really get into character.

[Mike3207]

Kill the werewolves, then kill the Dalish Keeper after finding out his assistant can heal everyone. That should get it done.

[Hero]

Maybe I'll post what I had originally planned and you guys can assess whether it's too "marty stuish" and suggest ideas.

 

Side with the mages

Save both Connor and Isolde

Kill cultists

Reveal ashes

Cure werewolf curse

Destroy Anvil

Crown Bhelen

Put Alistair and Anora on throne

Spare Loghain

Do the Dark Ritual

Save Amaranthine

Kill Architect

 

Ask for any other info if you want.

[Ferretinabun]

Being a 'Marty Stu' is subjective, as I'm sure you can RP a character who has good reasons for making those choices.

 

That said, I do kinda feel those are the default 'right' choices in every case (crowning Behlen and killing the Architect are perhaps the most controversial choices, but even they are highly ambiguous decisions rather than ones with 'right' choices). I do have one playthrough where I chose these, but something nagged at me that these would be the same choices everyone else would make. My playthroughs where I deliberately stuck to flawed wardens making 'bad' choices feel more personal to me. But that's just me.

[Hero]

Hmm...what could be considered all the "knightly" choices? that could be a start

[Hydwn]

Maybe I'll post what I had originally planned and you guys can assess whether it's too "marty stuish" and suggest ideas.

 

Side with the mages

Save both Connor and Isolde

Kill cultists

Reveal ashes

Cure werewolf curse

Destroy Anvil

Crown Bhelen

Put Alistair and Anora on throne

Spare Loghain

Do the Dark Ritual

Save Amaranthine

Kill Architect

 

Ask for any other info if you want.

 

I would call most of those the paragon choices - I use them for my canon run.  Bhelen versus Harrowmont is up for debate since Harrowmont is the better person and Bhelen is a better king, but to a human noble who might confused about how it works among dwarves, the fact that he's a king's son might make him look like the better ruler.

 

The dark ritual also makes him seem less paragon-ish, and more complex.

 

Note that in order to put Alistair on the throne and spare Loghain, you have to "harden" Alistair by convincing him that people are basically selfish and cruel, and he should be selfish.  That's pretty un-paragon too

 

Nothing wrong with a paragon run.  Part of fantasy is getting to live in a world where you can make the world a better place in a few hours of gameplay  

[Willowhugger]

I dunno, I think the "Paragon Option" is still pretty damn morally ambiguous.

 

1. Side with Bhelen

You allow a man who is a regicide, fratricide, and a patricide ascend to the throne of Orzamaar on the belief he'll help others. That is a HORRIBLY Machivaellian way of doing business.

 

2. Master Ignatio's quests

Killing Howe's supporters and Loghain's to weaken them politically is, again, really ruthless.

 

3. Stabbing Vaughn

I mentioned my MageWarden did this because he realized that Fereldan had too many evil nobles as is.

 

4. Turning over Jowan to the Circle

You just condemned a man to be Tranquil.

[Hydwn]

I dunno, I think the "Paragon Option" is still pretty damn morally ambiguous.

 

 

 

True.  I remember one of the devs talking ages ago about how they didn't want DA to have a strict paragon/renegade series of options like in ME.  There are some things that will never have a good or evil option.

 

I consider the Jowan tranquil option best because you can only send him away before he does the ritual.  It's Connor's life or his, and he's the reason for the whole mess.  Strange you can't ask for his life as a boon.

 

Bhelen versus Harrowmont is a pretty clear comment on the politics of personality.  Many wonderful leaders have been horrible people, and wonderful people have been horrible leaders, and BioWare seems especially fascinated by that dynamic.  I've voted in real life for people I knew were horrible but whose policies I liked, so I consider that the paragon choice

 

I was going to say that helping Ignatio would seem paragon because you can save a child, and then I remembered that you never actually get to

 

(The problem with Ignatio's quests is there's no XP-granting alternative, and no apparent negative consequences, so people will do them without thinking of the paragon/renegade consequences.  I wonder if there'll be something about them in DAI?)

 

If you're not a city elf, there's no way to know what Vaughn did.  Nobody tells you.  He certainly doesn't volunteer the info.  To me, before I did the city elf origin, I just thought he was the rightful lord usurped.  You can argue that one as paragon-from-ignorance, unless you're on a metagaming playhtrough

[Willowhugger]

 

If you're not a city elf, there's no way to know what Vaughn did.  Nobody tells you.  He certainly doesn't volunteer the info.  To me, before I did the city elf origin, I just thought he was the rightful lord usurped.  You can argue that one as paragon-from-ignorance, unless you're on a metagaming playhtrough

 

It's not Paragon if you're killing him because you don't want the "rightful lord" to be a man who hates elves.

Especially after someone just purged the Alienage.

I honestly would kill him just because I don't think he should be Arl, not because of his past crimes. I.e. I'm killing him because the elves need an elf-sympathetic Arl.

And Alistair will have to appoint a new Arl if there's no heir.

 

[Hydwn]

It's not Paragon if you're killing him because you don't want the "rightful lord" to be a man who hates elves.

Especially after someone just purged the Alienage.

I honestly would kill him just because I don't think he should be Arl, not because of his past crimes. I.e. I'm killing him because the elves need an elf-sympathetic Arl.

And Alistair will have to appoint a new Arl if there's no heir.

 

 

I actually thought the first time that Howe had purged the alienage.  Dragon Age is always evasive about the timeframe of things (it had to be because you can do things in such different orders).  I hadn't realized that Vaughn had done it until I'd played a city elf.

[Willowhugger]

I actually thought the first time that Howe had purged the alienage.  Dragon Age is always evasive about the timeframe of things (it had to be because you can do things in such different orders).  I hadn't realized that Vaughn had done it until I'd played a city elf.

 

Howe did purge the Alienage, I was just talking about how the fact that the elves had suffered enough.

Howe purged the Alienage as a reaction to the rioting over Vaughn's abuses.

So, really, they had no luck.

[Hero]

I've actually considered maybe having Alistair duel Loghain to avoid the possible moral dilemma of sparing loghain and making Alistair king alone, but I'm kinda worried what the consequences of having Alistair king alone could be. I'm also interested in seeing how they might have Loghain influence the events of Inquisition and the possibility for character development, and I'm curious to see how a marriage between Alistair and Anora plays out in it as well.

[Elhanan]

I've actually considered maybe having Alistair duel Loghain to avoid the possible moral dilemma of sparing loghain and making Alistair king alone, but I'm kinda worried what the consequences of having Alistair king alone could be. I'm also interested in seeing how they might have Loghain influence the events of Inquisition and the possibility for character development, and I'm curious to see how a marriage between Alistair and Anora plays out in it as well.

That is what the Wiki is for!

That said, I prefer Anora to help govern in most cases, and having Alistair of the Human Noble Warden at her side to aid and support her is always good for me. But there is nothing wrong with Alistair ruling alone, though I cannot recall if he should be hardened first. But this is why The Keep will be helpful; to allow each Player to tailor choices moving ahead.

[Ferretinabun]

Hmm...what could be considered all the "knightly" choices? that could be a start

 

 

Well, if it helps, when I did my Human Noble playthrough, I kinda merged ideas of 'knight' with 'templar' in my mind. So my HN was pious and extremely suspicious of magic. So I annulled the Circle, dismissed Morrigan from my party as soon as we were clear of Lothering, and refused the DR out of hand. But that's just one route to take.

 

The more interesting question is where they stand on the rights of the upper classes. The noble houses like the Couslands are only nobility through right of birth, so it's possible he'll hold Alistair's royal blood in high esteem. Then again, it is bastard blood, so perhaps not. Loghain is a national hero, but low-born, so your warden will definitely have strong opinions on him too (and by extension, Anora), whether he thinks of Loghain as having earned the right to be 'one of us', or whether he's an grubby social climber.

 

Make a stand on your warden's opinions on this (and I think you could argue a good case either way), and I think other choices will pop into place. For example, if your warden values royal blood, then he'll likely back Behlen simply because he was the old King's son. And if he is a staunch nationalist who idolises Loghain, he probably won't take kindly to Orlesians 'stealing Ferelden nobles' and won't have too many qualms about throwing Isolde under the bus to save Connor (they might even be highly distrustful of Leliana because of her Orlesian connections and past in espionage). It could even spill over into Awakenings - a born and bred fighter who admires Loghain's military prowess might want to save Vigil's Keep to secure your military strength, while the sort of royalist who puts Alistair on the throne for his blue blood might be more inclined to risk the common soldiers to save Amaranthine (the 'glittering jewel of Ferelden').

 

Also, though it breaks my heart because I really do like him a lot, I'm not sure I can see many 'knightly' characters giving Zevran a second chance after he tries to murder you. Assassination is, by it's very nature, highly unchivalrous. It's also works that he'd think Sten deserves his fate in the cage in Lothering.

 

Hope this all helps.

[Hero]

I guess what I want is a character who truly deserves to be called "Hero of Ferelden"; Someone who's a bit of an Idealist and ends up a lighter shade of grey compared to most of the characters, something along the lines of a Knight in Shining Armor who develops into a Knight in Sour Armor with shades of Pragmatic Hero. Something of a compromise between the idealistic honorable knight image the Greys wardens have been given and the ruthless pragmatists that they really are.

 

Edit: To be honest, I have absolutely loved the concept of the Knight in Sour Armor ever since I found out about it, and it always finds it's way into any character I RP; It's basically become an essential character trait for me.

[Willowhugger]

I guess what I want is a character who truly deserves to be called "Hero of Ferelden"; Someone who's a bit of an Idealist and ends up a lighter shade of grey compared to most of the characters, something along the lines of a Knight in Shining Armor who develops into a Knight in Sour Armor with shades of Pragmatic Hero. Something of a compromise between the idealistic honorable knight image the Greys wardens have been given and the ruthless pragmatists that they really are.

 

Edit: To be honest, I have absolutely loved the concept of the Knight in Sour Armor ever since I found out about it, and it always finds it's way into any character I RP; It's basically become an essential character trait for me.

Dragon Age isn't a very nuanced game but it has nuance.

So if you want to play the "Good" guy then just Harden Alistair, Leliana, and support Bhelen.

 

Then be good the rest of the game.

 

:-)

[HTTP 404]

you could fail to save the mages at the circle which could lead to Isolde sacrificing herself to save her son. 

 

Fight and kill Sten at the village of Haven. 

 

bring shale with you to the anvil and side with Branka, kill Shale.  Then convince Branka that the anvil is probably no good, she then kills herself. 

 

You could spare Loghain since forgiveness is a good trait to have. 

 

Refuse to have god child with morrigan and have Loghain do the US to redeem himself.  You could marry Anora and be Regent/King (never did that one).