111 réponses à ce sujet

[Tonymac]

Maybe not universally hated, but there is a lot of hate and explanation on you tube.  Thousands of explanations (and on these large amounts of likes) on why people thought it sucked, step by step picking the whole of ME3 apart.  Many of these are intelligently articulated, done by professional writers and teachers and people in academia as well as just plain old regular fans.

 

BioWare won't divulge the true numbers, but I am willing to bet that the DLC unit sales were significantly lower than the number of ME3 games sold.  Some fans got DLC just for an attempt at closure, even though they still hated the endings - so even this gap on units sold to DLC units sold will not show the true dislike.

 

I was here on the forums back during the pre-EC days.  There were hundreds of fans and people every day wanting to say their last words to Mac and Casey and get banned, because they will never be back.  The moderator staff was in 'damage control' mode.

 

I hope that BioWare will look at those numbers, and learn from them.  Time will tell.

[Farangbaa]

I keep repeating myself over and over:

 

People who like the game are much less inclined to go the forums than people who dislike it, who then proceed to terrorize the forums. People who are indifferent are even less likely to join forums than people who like the game, they forget about the game altogether. Judging these kinda things by forums, or how many likes something gets on youtube is not the way to go.

 

Especially the forums! If the forums speak the truth, ALL MMO's, including World of Warcraft, are terrible, terrible games. (now you might agree with that because you hate MMO's or something, but judging by WoW's continued revenue I'd say it's not such a bad game). 

[TruthSerum]

no it wasn't when the final game of a trilogy is universally hated and yes people hate it allot go around the places that aren't this site and you'll see very neg reactions to ME3 and when most remember the trilogy ending very poorly and making what you did point less in the other titles doesn't make for a good Trilogy.

"Universally hated"
"Universally"

No it wasn't. I loved ME 3. In fact its one of my favorite games of the last generation.

I have friends in RL that don't follow internet politics that loved the game and never gave the ending a second thought. To them it was just the end of the story and the end of the game.

Personally I think a reboot is a bad idea because the M. E. universe isn't irrevocably broken in the slightest. There are plenty of viable directions for Bioware to go without erasing everything and going in a direction that would most likely not even satisfy the very people they are trying to placate.

[Iakus]

"Universally hated"
"Universally"

No it wasn't. I loved ME 3. In fact its one of my favorite games of the last generation.

I have friends in RL that don't follow internet politics that loved the game and never gave the ending a second thought. To them it was just the end of the story and the end of the game.

Personally I think a reboot is a bad idea because the M. E. universe isn't irrevocably broken in the slightest. There are plenty of viable directions for Bioware to go without erasing everything and going in a direction that would most likely not even satisfy the very people they are trying to placate.

You don't think the ME universe is broken, but I think it's dust.  Red, Blue, and Green dust.  

 

There is no direction it can go in that won't break the base even more than it already is.

[TruthSerum]

I don't hate the ME 3 or the end of it because the story ended up being about a group of people that sacrificed themselves to save untold TRILLIONS of lives over the next million years.

The never ending cycle of mass galactic scale genocide every 50,000 years was stopped thanks to this small group of individuals that gave EVERYTHING they had to stop the cycle and they won.

The good guys won.

Untold billions upon billions of lives have been saved because of Shepard and her crew.

So now that its over the galaxy can move on and begin to deal with the aftermath without fear that the cycle will simply start all over again.

[Tonymac]

You don't think the ME universe is broken, but I think it's dust.  Red, Blue, and Green dust.  

 

There is no direction it can go in that won't break the base even more than it already is.

 

You forgot yellow dust.  Shoot the brat, you will see what I mean.

[TruthSerum]

You forgot yellow dust. Shoot the brat, you will see what I mean.

The fact there was a three (or four) way game mechanic at the end of the game does not mean that the ME universe is irrevocably broken.

The fact that some players feel that they should have had more freedom at the end of the game has no bearing on the future viability of the ME universe. Its just a game mechanic that some felt was unsatisfying and overly restrictive.

It's not nearly enough reason for a reboot.

[Iakus]

The fact there was a three (or four) way game mechanic at the end of the game does not mean that the ME universe is irrevocably broken.
 

Kinda does, given it dramatically alters the world state for the entire galaxy.  And in more than four ways as well.

 

 

The fact that some players feel that they should have had more freedom at the end of the game has no bearing on the future viability of the ME universe. Its just a game mechanic that some felt was unsatisfying and overly restrictive.

It's not nearly enough reason for a reboot.

 

 

The level of disgust which a lot of people feel how the ending was handled and the state of the galaxy going forward indicates otherwise.

 

I for one have no desire to move forward in the ME Universe when my commander Shepard was forced to act in a way I found more reprehensible than Saren, and the state of the galaxy was a direct result.

[TruthSerum]

Your "level of disgust" has absolutely no bearing on the future state of the ME universe. Your level of disgust is not a plot point.

As far as what actually DID happen in the universe of the game. Those things can be handled in a multitude of ways without any kind of extreme continuity bending or breaking and I have already given one example in this very thread of the many possible ways they could go in the next game.

[Iakus]

Your "level of disgust" has absolutely no bearing on the future state of the ME universe. Your level of disgust is not a plot point.

Kinda does.  At least on a meta level.  Disgust too many people and who's going to buy your products?

 

 

As far as what actually DID happen in the universe of the game. Those things can be handled in a multitude of ways without any kind of extreme continuity bending or breaking and I have already given one example in this very thread of the many possible ways they could go in the next game.

Canonize an ending and you'll p*ss off anyone who chose a differnt ending thinking their choice matters.

 

Set the game in the distant future, and you trivialized said choice.

 

Set in in another galaxy and not only did you trivialize the choice, you did it in an overly obvious fashion.

 

Put a krogan, quarian, or geth character in MENExt, you just trivialized one or more important decisions.  "Councilor Udina", anyone?

 

Earth still around?  You just decanon-ed one ending. 

 

The list goes on and on.  And this is just the "official" canon.  Not the headcanon or fanfic a lot of people use to make the endings bearable.

[TruthSerum]

Kinda does. At least on a meta level. Disgust too many people and who's going to buy your products?

Canonize an ending and you'll p*ss off anyone who chose a differnt ending thinking their choice matters.

Set the game in the distant future, and you trivialized said choice.

Set in in another galaxy and not only did you trivialize the choice, you did it in an overly obvious fashion.

Put a krogan, quarian, or geth character in MENExt, you just trivialized one or more important decisions. "Councilor Udina", anyone?

Earth still around? You just decanon-ed one ending.

The list goes on and on. And this is just the "official" canon. Not the headcanon or fanfic a lot of people use to make the endings bearable.

In what way shape or form is having every major race flee a massive genocidal apocalypse from the previous game "trivializing".

I don't think that is a valid point at all because the setting for the next game would be a direct result of the things that occurred in the previous game.

As for anybody knowing what happened with Shepard inside the Crucible there is almost no practical way any future playable character could know that. Even survivors back in the Milky Way galaxy would not know what happened, they would only see the after effects.

So that being said the next story would not be trivializing anything by not telling the player EXACTLY what happened at the end of ME 3.

[Iakus]

In what way shape or form is having every major race flee a massive genocidal apocalypse from the previous game "trivializing".

I don't think that is a valid point at all because the setting for the next game would be a direct result of the things that occurred in the previous game.

As for anybody knowing what happened with Shepard inside the Crucible there is almost no practical way any future playable character could know that. Even survivors back in the Milky Way galaxy would not know what happened, they would only see the after effects.

So that being said the next story would not be trivializing anything by not telling the player EXACTLY what happened at the end of ME 3.

Because it would mean not dealing with the choice. It's literally running away from the problem.  "We frakked up so bad we have to go to an entirely different galaxy to tell a new story."  Despite having visited only a fraction of the 1% of the explored Milky Way.

 

The player knows what happened.  And that's what really matters.

[Vazgen]

I'm fine with never seeing anything from the explored part of the Milky Way if they can create locations as interesting as those. Having the game set in another region of the galaxy with no access to the systems from previous games and with vague mentions of the Reaper War outcome would be a great way of dealing with the endings, at least for me.

[themikefest]

Going by the story the stargazer told the kid, Shepard lives since no one else knew what happened on the Citadel. High ems destroy is canon. Shepard couldn't tell the story in the other endings since he/she is dead.

[Vazgen]

Going by the story the stargazer told the kid, Shepard lives since no one else knew what happened on the Citadel. High ems destroy is canon. Shepard couldn't tell the story in the other endings since he/she is dead.

Considering I always choose high EMS Destroy... I'm up for it!

[TruthSerum]

I'm fine with never seeing anything from the explored part of the Milky Way if they can create locations as interesting as those. Having the game set in another region of the galaxy with no access to the systems from previous games and with vague mentions of the Reaper War outcome would be a great way of dealing with the endings, at least for me.

 

See, here's another workable suggestion that doesn't require a complete reboot. 

 

 

 

Because it would mean not dealing with the choice. It's literally running away from the problem.  "We frakked up so bad we have to go to an entirely different galaxy to tell a new story."  Despite having visited only a fraction of the 1% of the explored Milky Way.

 

The player knows what happened.  And that's what really matters.

 

 

One minute you are arguing for a reboot and the next you are saying that Mass Effect 4 NOT explaining the previous ending in expicit detail is running away from the problem. Contradictions........

 

 

No matter where the next game takes place if it has an interesting story with interesting characters, interesting locales and fullfilling interactions within that framework I should hope that you would be there playing the game along side the rest of us. Now if that is not the case then Boiware would be foolish to try to cater to someone like that.

 

If they make a high quality game and you decide not to buy it then there is really nothing else that can or should be done. Personally I'm pretty confident that the next ME is going to be worth playing and I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be a reboot.  

[Iakus]

See, here's another workable suggestion that doesn't require a complete reboot. 

 

Except for pesky details like the energy wave engulfing the entire galaxy...

 

 

One minute you are arguing for a reboot and the next you are saying that Mass Effect 4 NOT explaining the previous ending in expicit detail is running away from the problem. Contradictions........

 

No matter where the next game takes place if it has an interesting story with interesting characters, interesting locales and fullfilling interactions within that framework I should hope that you would be there playing the game along side the rest of us. Now if that is not the case then Boiware would be foolish to try to cater to someone like that.

If they make a high quality game and you decide not to buy it then there is really nothing else that can or should be done. Personally I'm pretty confident that the next ME is going to be worth playing and I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be a reboot.

 

Trying to keep things within the same continuity while not exploring the consequences of previous decisions is running away from them.  It's trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

A reboot, or an AU has its own problems.  It certainly wouldn't make everyone happy.  But it least it's not pretending to be a direct continuation.

 

See the problem here is Bioware thought ME3 had an interesting story, etc.  It certainly doesn't give me any confidence that anything that follows from it will be worth playing or high quality.  If they actually acknowledged that they frakked up, work to correct things, even if it means divorcing MENext from Shepard's trilogy, maybe I'd change my mind.  But so far I have no reason to hope.

 

As I said, I have no interest in playing in a setting where RGB happened.

[TruthSerum]

Except for pesky details like the energy wave engulfing the entire galaxy...

Trying to keep things within the same continuity while not exploring the consequences of previous decisions is running away from them. It's trying to have your cake and eat it too.

A reboot, or an AU has its own problems. It certainly wouldn't make everyone happy. But it least it's not pretending to be a direct continuation.

See the problem here is Bioware thought ME3 had an interesting story, etc. It certainly doesn't give me any confidence that anything that follows from it will be worth playing or high quality. If they actually acknowledged that they frakked up, work to correct things, even if it means divorcing MENext from Shepard's trilogy, maybe I'd change my mind. But so far I have no reason to hope.

As I said, I have no interest in playing in a setting where RGB happened.

If you are willing to pass up a perfectly good game then it sounds to me like you are not interested a quality game, what you want is an apology.

I'm interested in quality games myself. I think that is where I and and people like me differ from your point of view.

I'm also pretty sure Bioware's focus also is in making a quality game as it should be.

[Iakus]

If you are willing to pass up a perfectly good game then it sounds to me like you are not interested a quality game, what you want is an apology.

I'm interested in quality games myself. I think that is where I and and people like me differ from your point of view.

I'm also pretty sure Bioware'focus also is in making a quality game as it should be.

At this point, I'd kinda like both.  Even if one is wrapped in another.

 

I don't think you can get a quality game by continuing with the endings.  I believe it will taint whatever it touches.  If I have to pick RGB for whatever MENext is, I will be stuck thinking "My Shepard had to do that to the galaxy"  It will kill any fun I might otherwise have.  That this setting was built upon an atrocity my character was forced to do against his will.

 

If Bioware reall is focused on making a quality game, I'd hope they take that sentiment into account.

[Massa FX]

My worst case scenario for the next ME game = EA repackages ME3 with a new cover and sells it as ME[next].

[downnice]

I am really hoping that Bioware takes a cue from Bethesda and opens the galaxy up. 

 

1. Legacy - I am hoping Bioware just canon the ending to Destroy or Synthesis. Make it 25 years after ME3 and have most of the relays fixed and have some rebuilding go around. Also Make it clear the Citadel was not destroyed and most of the people on there lived =)

 

2. Playable Races with different backgrounds. Let you be a criminal, cop, low ranking military officer. A main story would be okay but this is a big one for me. Your character should not be as heroic as Shepard!

 

3. Being able to fully explore the Citadel and open up way more areas for exploration. Being able to buy houses, Ships. More crew members and new races such a Yahg, Raloi. 

 

I love the next mass effect to explore the day to day life more. A main story would be fine but limit the saving the galaxy stuff atleast for this one. 

 

Worst case scenario: Destiny clone

[crashsuit]

I think what's really important is that no matter how little we know about ME4, we should continue to be pants-crappingly furious that it may not panderingly cater to our selfish whims.

[windsea]

I think what's really important is that no matter how little we know about ME4, we should continue to be pants-crappingly furious that it may not panderingly cater to our selfish whims.

that is kinda a given, have you never been on the internet before?

[Vazgen]

Except for pesky details like the energy wave engulfing the entire galaxy...

The wave fades at a certain distance, as visible from the cutscene. Here, a graphical representation of Crucible's coverage

Spoiler

As you can see, there is still quite a lot of place to use, especially if they make clusters close to each other, like Ninmah and Nimbus clusters.