216 réponses à ce sujet

[Livi14]

Tali and Garrus can be dead in ME3, right? And if Garrus is alive for ME3, he can be ignored for the whole game except that cutscene after the genophage mission, right? Tali is only required for 2 of the 4 missions, dreadnought and Rannoch, right? Outside of those 2 missions, Tali can be ignored, right?

 

What does this have to do with homeworlds falling to the reapers and Liara geting special treatment? Nothing.

If any race is given special treatment in ME it's humanity. All races of the galaxy should have been treated equally, and yet humanity is given special treatment and shown in the most favorable light.

[themikefest]

What does this have to do with homeworlds falling to the reapers and Liara geting special treatment? Nothing.

If any race is given special treatment in ME it's humanity. All races of the galaxy should have been treated equally, and yet humanity is given special treatment and shown in the most favorable light.

At least you admit T'soni gets special treatment.

 

The Asari are shown special treatment. They don't show up to the summit. But that's ok. They're special. The Asari fail to reveal the artifact until the last minute. But that's ok. They're special. Yes Shepard brings up Earth a number of times. but you don't see her saying sorry to anyone or leaning against the wall moping. But Thessia falls, and all a sudden femshep is leaning against the wall and saying sorry to a coucnilor for no reason. But that's ok. They're special.

[DuskWanderer]

What does this have to do with homeworlds falling to the reapers and Liara geting special treatment? Nothing.

If any race is given special treatment in ME it's humanity. All races of the galaxy should have been treated equally, and yet humanity is given special treatment and shown in the most favorable light.

 

Shepard is also human. He will inevitably feel closer to humanity and Earth as a result. The connection he has to the other races is nonexistent. 

[DuskWanderer]

Tali and Garrus can be dead in ME3, right? And if Garrus is alive for ME3, he can be ignored for the whole game except that cutscene after the genophage mission, right? Tali is only required for 2 of the 4 missions, dreadnought and Rannoch, right? Outside of those 2 missions, Tali can be ignored, right?

 Yes. You only need to talk to Garrus on the Menae mission, and after the Tuchanka arc finishes (and really, Victus does most of the talking, Garrus just says "it must be hard losing Mordin" and ends it.

 

Tali is only required to be spoken to at her introduction, during Priority: Geth Dreadnought, and Priority: Rannoch. After that, she can be ignored. 

 

 

Both of these are related to their race's respective character arcs: Garrus is the one with the pull in the turian military, and Tali for the quarians. Speaking to them makes sense, and you can keep it professional from start to finish (telling Tali you came for the Migrant Fleet, telling Garrus you'll sleep when you're dead). Liara, from the beginning, gets a creepy M!Shep introduction and commandeers the entire XO cabin for her own devices, invites herself to any area of the ship she pleases, all without permission (Seriously, if you're the Shadow Broker, you don't have other ships or hidden bases? How the hell did you get that stuff onto the ship, then?)

[Antmarch456]

Not really a cutscene, per se, but would have been great for immersion. Old post quoted:[i]Add alien crew members to the War Room who stick around after the completion of different arcs. Fill the War Room with ME2-style "eavesdrop" conversations which change depending on what happens in your game...

This would've been a great addition, especially since Bioware decided we have less squadmates. Opportunities for new squadmates include Kirrahe, Kasumi & Zaeed, Samara, Grunt and even Wrex.

[DeinonSlayer]

This would've been a great addition, especially since Bioware decided we have less squadmates. Opportunities for new squadmates include Kirrahe, Kasumi & Zaeed, Samara, Grunt and even Wrex.

Oh, I didn't mean new or previous squadmates accumulating in the war room - the idea is unnamed alien NPCs who take up stations in there, coordinating with their home fleets. Instead of Liara relaying word of the monastery to you after the coup, it would be an unnamed Asari intelligence officer posted to the War Room who never directly speaks to you again, but can always be found either in the War Room or, perhaps, in the mess or elsewhere on the ship (men's room?). Over the course of the game, the War Room (instead of being half-empty from beginning to end and exclusively human) would become a menagerie of the different species you've managed to recruit. Instead of "that room between me and the vid-com," it's the hub where the entire war is being coordinated.

[Barquiel]

What do you mean?

 

In the game Shepard consistantly insists that all races must unite to have a chance to defeat the reapers (makes sense) and *thus* the other races have to help her retake earth (which is stupid). In the leaked script (the early version) there were some more decisions. For example, during the coup there was a choice to reinforce Thessia or not.

<data>Exactly. So you see, Commander, the battle over Thessia will be most crucial.</data>
<data>We cannot win it outright. But without the knowledge to defeat the Reapers, no planet will be spared. No rescue will come. No hope will remain.</data>
<data>Then I will divert the Justice and Apex dreadnoughts and their attendant fleets to reinforce the asari at Thessia.</data>
<data>Commander, you have a deal.</data>
<data>[The original turian and salarian councilors wait by the bedside of the original asari councilor.]</data>
<data>Commander. Please come in quietly. Councilor Tevos is sleeping.</data>
<data>We have taken the time to review your evidence against Councilor Udina, and I would like to thank you.</data>
<data>Between that video and Commander Bailey's corroborating evidence, it is clear Udina attempted to overthrow us by violent means.</data>
<data>But at least this puts to rest the debate about throwing fleets at the humans' homeworld.</data>

[FaWa]

 
Yes, it had something to do with the Hanar, iirc. Udina was petitioning the council to abandon the hanar homeworld to the reapers in favor of regrouping for a counterstrike or something. There was Emily Wong, Kasumi, Terra Firma, Thane's role was at least acceptable (he was the one who shot Udina), Udina's motivations made sense and that stupid fixation on Earth was thematized.
 

Emily Wong, Khalisa al Jilani and Kasumi all in the same mission would have been legendary.  

[Han Shot First]

In the game Shepard consistantly insists that all races must unite to have a chance to defeat the reapers (makes sense) and *thus* the other races have to help her retake earth (which is stupid). In the leaked script (the early version) there were some more decisions. For example, during the coup there was a choice to reinforce Thessia or not.

<data>Exactly. So you see, Commander, the battle over Thessia will be most crucial.</data>
<data>We cannot win it outright. But without the knowledge to defeat the Reapers, no planet will be spared. No rescue will come. No hope will remain.</data>
<data>Then I will divert the Justice and Apex dreadnoughts and their attendant fleets to reinforce the asari at Thessia.</data>
<data>Commander, you have a deal.</data>
<data>[The original turian and salarian councilors wait by the bedside of the original asari councilor.]</data>
<data>Commander. Please come in quietly. Councilor Tevos is sleeping.</data>
<data>We have taken the time to review your evidence against Councilor Udina, and I would like to thank you.</data>
<data>Between that video and Commander Bailey's corroborating evidence, it is clear Udina attempted to overthrow us by violent means.</data>
<data>But at least this puts to rest the debate about throwing fleets at the humans' homeworld.</data>

 

 

There is some stuff from the original script that I'm glad was changed, but this might have been interesting. 

[von uber]

Shepard is also human. He will inevitably feel closer to humanity and Earth as a result. The connection he has to the other races is nonexistent. 

 

Unless, you know, she was romancing one of them...  or liked them as valued squad members / friends via building up relationships with them. Which is pretty much what you do over 3 games.

[DuskWanderer]

Unless, you know, she was romancing one of them...  or liked them as valued squad members / friends via building up relationships with them. Which is pretty much what you do over 3 games.

 

I know that comic has Commander Shepard as a giant ****, but you romance a person, not a people.

[Han Shot First]

Shepard having a strong emotional connection to Earth is understandable. After all he is human and an officer in the Systems Alliance military, and Earth is both home to the great majority of his species and of great strategic importance to the Alliance Navy.

 

The issue is that Shepard puts emotion before logic. After Earth falls human fleets would be better spent preventing Palaven or Thessia from falling than in launching an ill-conceived and reckless assault on Earth. In order to defeat the Reapers and save Earth the other factions must remain in the fight.

[themikefest]

Shepard having a strong emotional connection to Earth is understandable. After all he is human and an officer in the Systems Alliance military, and Earth is both home to the great majority of his species and of great strategic importance to the Alliance Navy.

 

The issue is that Shepard puts emotion before logic. After Earth falls human fleets would be better spent preventing Palaven or Thessia from falling than in launching an ill-conceived and reckless assault on Earth. In order to defeat the Reapers and save Earth the other factions must remain in the fight.

Isn't that what Hackett ordered Shepard to do? Get help to fight the reapers on Earth. All Shepard did is gather the fleets of the different species to fight.

[Mordokai]

Shepard having a strong emotional connection to Earth is understandable. After all he is human and an officer in the Systems Alliance military, and Earth is both home to the great majority of his species and of great strategic importance to the Alliance Navy.

 

Two out of three times, Shepard has no emotional attachment to Earth, since they weren't even born there. I don't know if it says anything, but it is theoretically possible that colonist and spacer never even saw Earth before being brought there for questioning. So I kinda disagree with you there, about that strong emotional connection.

 

As for Earth born... they skedaddled at first available opportunity. Honestly, every piece of evidence before the third game shows that the one Shepard that should care about Earth cares about it the least.

[Han Shot First]

Two out of three times, Shepard has no emotional attachment to Earth, since they weren't even born there. I don't know if it says anything, but it is theoretically possible that colonist and spacer never even saw Earth before being brought there for questioning. So I kinda disagree with you there, about that strong emotional connection.

 

As for Earth born... they skedaddled at first available opportunity. Honestly, every piece of evidence before the third game shows that the one Shepard that should care about Earth cares about it the least.

 

Shepard from all backgrounds has been to Earth prior to ME3. He has dialogue with Ashley in Mass Effect 1 about having been to a recruit training depot at Macapá, Brazil. Also the Alliance special operations training program (the N school, or 'the villa') is in Brazil as well.

 

I think even if Shepard isn't from Earth that he or she would still have an emotional connection to it. It's humanity's home world, and as a relative newcomer to galactic civilization the vast majority of humanity still reside on the on Earth at the start of ME3. If the Reapers succeed in wiping the Earth clean of human life it probably would represent something like 90 to 95% of the species. 

 

So for that reason I can understand Shepard having an impulse to demand fleets to retake Earth. What is less hard for me to understand is Shepard putting emotion before logic and voicing that impulse while Palaven burns. The best way to help humanity at that point was to shore up Palaven and make sure it didn't fall. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Shepard from all backgrounds has been to Earth prior to ME3. He has dialogue with Ashley in Mass Effect 1 about having been to a recruit training depot at Macapá, Brazil. Also the Alliance special operations training program (the N school, or 'the villa') is in Brazil as well.

I think even if Shepard isn't from Earth that he or she would still have an emotional connection to it. It's humanity's home world, and as a relative newcomer to galactic civilization the vast majority of humanity still reside on the on Earth at the start of ME3. If the Reapers succeed in wiping the Earth clean of human life it probably would represent something like 90 to 95% of the species.

So for that reason I can understand Shepard having an impulse to demand fleets to retake Earth. What is less hard for me to understand is Shepard putting emotion before logic and voicing that impulse while Palaven burns. The best way to help humanity at that point was to shore up Palaven and make sure it didn't fall.

Not a fan of the "abandon your burning homeworld to save mine!" schtick. If anything, Shepard should have been advocating for the construction of the Crucible. We're given no strategic reason to liberate Earth until the Citadel was brought there in an attempt to make Earth relevant again. We'd lose more than we'd gain by roping the entire galactic fleet into what amounts to a bayonet charge to liberate a single planet while the rest of the galaxy burns - Shepard's parting promise to Anderson is, frankly, dumb.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Not a fan of the "abandon your burning homeworld to save mine!" schtick. If anything, Shepard should have been advocating for the construction of the Crucible. We're given no strategic reason to liberate Earth until the Citadel was brought there in an attempt to make Earth relevant again. We'd lose more than we'd gain by roping the entire galactic fleet into what amounts to a bayonet charge to liberate a single planet while the rest of the galaxy burns - Shepard's parting promise to Anderson is, frankly, dumb.

 

The game itself says how dumb the idea is in the aftermath of Udina and the coup. It even makes Shepard look like a hypocrite in some scenes. I think that's what bothers me most about him criticizing the Quarians for retaking Rannoch. The Alliance's plan really isn't any different than the Quarians... minus that the Quarians plan actually might have worked and didn't involve dragging everyone else with them.

[DuskWanderer]

Two out of three times, Shepard has no emotional attachment to Earth, since they weren't even born there. I don't know if it says anything, but it is theoretically possible that colonist and spacer never even saw Earth before being brought there for questioning. So I kinda disagree with you there, about that strong emotional connection.

 

As for Earth born... they skedaddled at first available opportunity. Honestly, every piece of evidence before the third game shows that the one Shepard that should care about Earth cares about it the least.

 

No, Shepard was stationed in Brazil for N-school training and spent a lot of time there. 

[DeinonSlayer]

The game itself even says how dumb the idea is in the aftermath of Udina and the coup. It even makes Shepard look like a hypocrite in some scenes. I think that's what bothers me most about him criticizing the Quarians for retaking Rannoch. The Alliance's plan really isn't any different than the Quarians... minus that the Quarians plan actually might have worked.

Also, unlike Earth, retaking Rannoch and offloading the civilians in their holds served a strategic purpose - it frees up the Quarian fleet to do the job it needs to do in the Reaper war in the first place, all with minimal casualties thanks to Xen's flashbang. Attempt to liberate Earth, on the other hand, and you'll get your fleet trashed against a fighting force over which you have no such advantage, only to lose whatever you gained when the Reapers send reinforcements. The Crucible is the only means by which Earth can be liberated.

EDIT: Oh sh**, now I've done it...

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Shepard is also human. He will inevitably feel closer to humanity and Earth as a result. The connection he has to the other races is nonexistent. 

Why? I'm a human. I don't feel any special connection to humanity, outside of the game. Inside, I really kinda hated the Alliance/Cerberus/Humanity. 

Replace the Geth with Humans in the destroy ending, and I have even less qualms about it. 

[Mordokai]

Why? I'm a human. I don't feel any special connection to humanity, outside of the game. Inside, I really kinda hated the Alliance/Cerberus/Humanity. 

Replace the Geth with Humans in the destroy ending, and I have even less qualms about it. 

 

Now there's a noble idea...

 

Maybe we can kickstart it?

[themikefest]

Why? I'm a human. I don't feel any special connection to humanity, outside of the game. Inside, I really kinda hated the Alliance/Cerberus/Humanity. 

Replace the Geth with Humans in the destroy ending, and I have even less qualms about it. 

Even better. Replace the Geth with Asari and I wouldn't have a problem

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Even better. Replace the Geth with Asari and I wouldn't have a problem

Nah. 

I'd really only kill Humanity and the Vorcha over the Geth, and maybe the Batarians, 'cause most of the nastiness witnessed is really due to their government, not the people. 

[themikefest]

Nah. 

I'd really only kill Humanity and the Vorcha over the Geth, and maybe the Batarians, 'cause most of the nastiness witnessed is really due to their government, not the people. 

And I'd really only kill the Asari over the Geth because of their stupidity not just as a government, but as a people too.