126 réponses à ce sujet

[Robtachi]

The franchise isn't even 7 years old yet. It requires neither a remaster nor a reboot. We still haven't even seen all it has to offer as an IP.

[Iakus]

After seeing the endings, I think we've seen all there is to offer...

[Drone223]

After seeing the endings, I think we've seen all there is to offer...

The trilogy only looked at a small portion of the explored galaxy and there is still the other 99% of unexplored regionS, I think we hardly touched the surface on what there is to offer.

[Iakus]

The trilogy only looked at a small portion of the explored galaxy and there is still the other 99% of unexplored regionS, I think we hardly touched the surface on what there is to offer.

 

With or without Reapers?  Geth?  Krogan?  Quarians?  Drell?

Green eyes or no?

Earth a cinder, kinda messed up, or generally okay?

Just how damaged are the relays anyway?

 

What the endings gave us was Mass Effect Ragnarok, with endings so divergent (not to mention unpopular) that going forward is pretty much guaranteed to p*ss off a substantial segment of the audience no matter what they do. 

[InWeirdPeril]

Going back or sideways will probably **** off equally as many people...

If they pull a KOTOR... and set it 4000+ years in the past... ugh...

[chris2365]

With or without Reapers? Geth? Krogan? Quarians? Drell?
Green eyes or no?
Earth a cinder, kinda messed up, or generally okay?
Just how damaged are the relays anyway?

What the endings gave us was Mass Effect Ragnarok, with endings so divergent (not to mention unpopular) that going forward is pretty much guaranteed to p*ss off a substantial segment of the audience no matter what they do.

It's true that the ME3 endings were meant to be the end of the line going forward. The main problem is that the substantial part if the fanbase you refer to doesn't care.

It isn't me, or you, or anyone else on these forums (even people on these forums are divided) It's the core and casual fans that will not care so long as the game is good. Just the word Mass Effect is enough to get them interested or not. They won't care weather it's a reboot, cannon ending, vague story element, etc. They know what the franchise is about

Did people care when Halo announced another trilogy, even though the story was said to be closed and final? Regardless of the game type, story and ending of both games, what brought them back to the Halo universe were the franchise elements, like shooting, multi-player, game modes, etc. , and these are going to be kept in a mostly intact form for the next Mass Effect. We'll still get a wide and diverse crew, we'll still have vehicles, we'll still have decisions and consequences.

From the point of view of the average consumer, stuff like the Rachni, Drell, etc will matter little. We know we're getting back from into a universe that will be fresh, but recognizable.That's the key goal. Making it so the average consumer can just by looking at it say it's a Mass Effect game.

Now, you might think it's not a true Mass Effect game, at least one not worth exploring, and that's fine. It's just that some of us are willing to overlook those missteps and see what else the universe can offer to us. I honestly don't care what direction they go in. My Shepard's story is over, and while his actions will live in my memory forever, I won't let them roadblock and blind me from alternatives that there are to be had in this incredibly rich and diverse universe.

[Tonymac]

With or without Reapers?  Geth?  Krogan?  Quarians?  Drell?

Green eyes or no?

Earth a cinder, kinda messed up, or generally okay?

Just how damaged are the relays anyway?

 

What the endings gave us was Mass Effect Ragnarok, with endings so divergent (not to mention unpopular) that going forward is pretty much guaranteed to p*ss off a substantial segment of the audience no matter what they do. 

 

 

My thought is that they are essentially doing a Mass Effect: Mulligan.  (its a golf term)   Yes, I just compared ME3 endings to golf.  Go figure.

 

Some people had Shep take a breath, and their LI not put a placard on the wall.  They seek closure on this - and demand it.  Some people chose green, some blue, some with low EMS did red.  Some people refused.  You are basically looking at a divergence as far as Galaxy states go.  I'm not sure how the writers are going to step around this little debacle.  

 

Frankly, the idea of a side-quel is completely unappealing to me.  I know how the galaxy will die no matter what I struggle to accomplish.  Same with a prequel.  If its post  Shep, how do you deal with the divergence?  Will they make a canon ending and just try play it off with a slight of hand?  Pull an 'Obi Wan' and be all like, "You don't need to see the effects of the ending(s).  These aren't the droids your looking for.  Move along."  If they think I will mutter along back at them like a Stormtrooper then they are sadly mistaken.

 

I'm interested in some ideas from the fans on how they think Bioware will start out the game - what timeline will be be in?  What will the state of the galaxy be?

[InWeirdPeril]

While I agree, that new or even casual players wont care much, if at all, the Halo comparison is a bit... iffy.

Halo would have taken a pretty big hit if they called do over and replaced the Master Chief, cortana and who ever is till around. As far as I remember the "end" of the halo trilogy did not divide fans like the ME3 endings(Plus, didnt most of the lore come from books and not from the games?). But I may be wrong on that account. I still have not played 3 and 4 and never followed the series that close.

I am not saying they would have failed if they had done it, but would have lost a lot of guaranteed revenue to the fact. Even without the fallout that followed ME3. So will BioWare if they go that route. The question is, will it even make a difference in the long run and if they are willing to risk it. All signs point that way right now(Going that route that is, not loosing enough revenue). Time will tell and I have high hopes for N7 day to clear up at least a few things. Though having no hopes for the new ME Game anymore to appeal to at least my interest in the universe.

[Drone223]

With or without Reapers?  Geth?  Krogan?  Quarians?  Drell?

Green eyes or no?

Earth a cinder, kinda messed up, or generally okay?

Just how damaged are the relays anyway?

 

What the endings gave us was Mass Effect Ragnarok, with endings so divergent (not to mention unpopular) that going forward is pretty much guaranteed to p*ss off a substantial segment of the audience no matter what they do. 

Still best to pick one ending (destroy) and go forward from there as its better to deal with them sooner rather than later. I wouldn't call the endings unpopular most likely the majority of people are indifferent about them.

[Iakus]

Still best to pick one ending (destroy) and go forward from there as its better to deal with them sooner rather than later. I wouldn't call the endings unpopular most likely the majority of people are indifferent about them.

 

 Canonize an ending.

 

Wow, they'd be able to hear the anguished cries from the ISS.  No one would ever take "your choices matter" seriously again (assuming any still do now)

 

And yeah, the endings aren't popular. It's still a radioactive topic today.  Granted after two and a half years  the dust has settled and most people have moved on.  But man, when MENext gets announced, you know that it will come up.  A lot.  

[Drone223]

 Canonize an ending.

 

Wow, they'd be able to hear the anguished cries from the ISS.  No one would ever take "your choices matter" seriously again (assuming any still do now)

 

And yeah, the endings aren't popular. It's still a radioactive topic today.  Granted after two and a half years  the dust has settled and most people have moved on.  But man, when MENext gets announced, you know that it will come up.  A lot.  

The only thing that will be made canon is the ending, not the choices that came before that (which did matter with the Rannoh and genophage arc's in particular), and most choices in the trilogy only affect a small number of people. The rachni, genophage and Rannoch arc's are the only things that have an impact on the galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised if something like the DA keep is made to import those actions into the next game.

 

People who are indifferent about the endings aren't going to comment on them as Chrs2365 pointed out, they'll just be interested in the next game as long as its a good game overall and they are most likely the majority who brought the game.

[Iakus]

Whether or not an entire species still exists or not is a pretty big deal.  It affects NPCs, potential companions, storylines, etc.

 

And sadly, if the indifferent are truly that large a bloc, then Bioware really has no need to learn anything.  Anyone will buy a given game, if the pew-pew is awesome enough 

[Drone223]

Whether or not an entire species still exists or not is a pretty big deal.  It affects NPCs, potential companions, storylines, etc.

 

And sadly, if the indifferent are truly that large a bloc, then Bioware really has no need to learn anything.  Anyone will buy a given game, if the pew-pew is awesome enough 

Something like the DA keep can help with that, I wouldn't say Bioware has learned nothing, they've been listening to fan input from those on the forums and from survey's they released (people who don't speak. If anything they are improving on the planet exploration with the new mako design which fans have been asking for.

[InWeirdPeril]

Whether or not an entire species still exists or not is a pretty big deal.  It affects NPCs, potential companions, storylines, etc.

 

And sadly, if the indifferent are truly that large a bloc, then Bioware really has no need to learn anything.  Anyone will buy a given game, if the pew-pew is awesome enough 

 

Of course it's a huge deal but within the right setting, quite manageable without compromising too much, yet still taking into account decisions made. Just saying, lack of creativity/trying is all that would squash it.

 

And a boatload of people are indifferent. Even here on the Forum. I doubt that it would be the case if it was a proper sequel with Shepard and all. The hurdle to get into it, late in the game, is much bigger with those. But since they pretty much will call do over, they will put all their marketing and work into making sure it will play and feel like a reboot. A clean slate. They are trying their best already with that, if you look at all the things that have been teased. And in the end, the argument will be "This is the best we could do both for new players and old fans alike". Sometimes it works, especially with games not as story heavy, sometimes it does not. Like I said, I doubt Halo would come out of it unscathed if they simply rebooted it. With new characters and all.

 

The only thing that counts, apparently next to artistic integrity, is money. They are a business and will ultimately do what is best for them. Not for anyone else. And you can't really blame them for that. But, like Cliffy B once said, you can vote with your dollars. That will show if their decision was the right one or not. And seeing the juggernaut EA backing them... the combination of the Franchise Name and heavy marketing could compensate for the loss of players if they screw it up.

 

Mind you, I have no insight into all that. That is just me taking an educated guess here.

[Khemikael]

Whether or not an entire species still exists or not is a pretty big deal.  It affects NPCs, potential companions, storylines, etc.

 

And sadly, if the indifferent are truly that large a bloc, then Bioware really has no need to learn anything.  Anyone will buy a given game, if the pew-pew is awesome enough 

So basically : They need to canonize an ending because the differences are too important between red/blue/green, geths/quarians etc… and in the meantime you’re saying choices don’t matter. You’re contradicting yourself !

 

I think most of the fans moved on, only the most aggressive ones keep trashing the endings. But they’re speaking really loud. I’m pretty concerned about that. I’m afraid that Bioware will get tired of it and say « you didn’t like our ending and our choices ? Fine ! We’ll remove it. Here’s a dull TPS with no implication of the player » They removed the elevators, the old Mako and the planet scaning because people didn’t like those. How about multiple endings if people didn’t like it as well ? All this constant whining is absurd, you’re s**ting in your own plate !

 

BioWare has a great opportunity to create a game with multiple beginings. Canonize an ending or a reboot are the easiest possibilities, not the best. I’d like to see a game where a quarter or a fifth of the time is used to make a transition from the ending of ME3 to the new story.

 

(Sorry if my english isn’t perfect, this is not my mother language)

[Farangbaa]

So basically : They need to canonize an ending because the differences are too important between red/blue/green, geths/quarians etc… and in the meantime you’re saying choices don’t matter. You’re contradicting yourself !

 

I think most of the fans moved on, only the most aggressive ones keep trashing the endings. But they’re speaking really loud. I’m pretty concerned about that. I’m afraid that Bioware will get tired of it and say « you didn’t like our ending and our choices ? Fine ! We’ll remove it. Here’s a dull TPS with no implication of the player » They removed the elevators, the old Mako and the planet scaning because people didn’t like those. How about multiple endings if people didn’t like it as well ? All this constant whining is absurd, you’re s**ting in your own plate !

 

BioWare has a great opportunity to create a game with multiple beginings. Canonize an ending or a reboot are the easiest possibilities, not the best. I’d like to see a game where a quarter or a fifth of the time is used to make a transition from the ending of ME3 to the new story.

 

(Sorry if my english isn’t perfect, this is not my mother language)

 

He's just trying to trick himself into not buying ME4.

 

It's not going to work.

[Iakus]

So basically : They need to canonize an ending because the differences are too important between red/blue/green, geths/quarians etc… and in the meantime you’re saying choices don’t matter. You’re contradicting yourself !

 

I'm not saying they need to canonize an ending.  Quite the opposite.  I'm saying Bioware has painted themselves into a corner and there are no good ways around it.

 

If anything, I'm saying Bioware needs to ignore the trilogy, or at least ME3's ending, and start fresh.

 

 

 

I think most of the fans moved on, only the most aggressive ones keep trashing the endings. But they’re speaking really loud. I’m pretty concerned about that. I’m afraid that Bioware will get tired of it and say « you didn’t like our ending and our choices ? Fine ! We’ll remove it. Here’s a dull TPS with no implication of the player » They removed the elevators, the old Mako and the planet scaning because people didn’t like those. How about multiple endings if people didn’t like it as well ? All this constant whining is absurd, you’re s**ting in your own plate !

 

Eh, I don't think Bioware is listening at all, really.  Otherwise we would have gotten more than "You're just confused, we just need to explain it to you more slowly" in EC.  

 

I would have been happy to have endings with "implications" What I don't like is being punished for wanting an outcome that doesn't require Shepard to become a monster in my eyes.

 

And vulgar language really isn't helping

 

 

 

 
(Sorry if my english isn’t perfect, this is not my mother language)

Don't worry, you're making your thoughts perfectly clear, even if I don't agree with them at all 

[Drone223]

I'm not saying they need to canonize an ending.  Quite the opposite.  I'm saying Bioware has painted themselves into a corner and there are no good ways around it.

 

If anything, I'm saying Bioware needs to ignore the trilogy, or at least ME3's ending, and start fresh.

 

Eh, I don't think Bioware is listening at all, really.  Otherwise we would have gotten more than "You're just confused, we just need to explain it to you more slowly" in EC.  

 

Ignoring the trilogy isn't a good idea since it would be just a wasted effort by the dev's and there they're currently the only major releases in the franchise. Also listening to fans =/= do as the fans say, they take input and use it to improve future titles e.g. better map design and mako. 

[Iakus]

Ignoring the trilogy isn't a good idea since it would be just a wasted effort by the dev's and there they're currently the only major releases in the franchise. Also listening to fans =/= do as the fans say, they take input and use it to improve future titles e.g. better map design and mako. 

 

How is it ignoring the trilogy?  How are teh efforts wasted?  Your choices still "matter" across that series, this is a different story now.  No need to carry the baggage of the first story.

 

And were you here when fans were begging for reunions?  For the geth/EDI not to die?  For ways to tweak Control and Synthesis?  There were threads hundreds of pages long on this stuff.  You could fraking taste the anticipation leading up to EC.  Then get told your opinion doesn't matter?  That clearly you're just confused about the endings, that all that was needed were a few more details.

 

Yeah, I take the whole "we listen" with the same grain of salt I take a politician's promise. 

[Drone223]

How is it ignoring the trilogy?  How are teh efforts wasted?  Your choices still "matter" across that series, this is a different story now.  No need to carry the baggage of the first story.

 

And were you here when fans were begging for reunions?  For the geth/EDI not to die?  For ways to tweak Control and Synthesis?  There were threads hundreds of pages long on this stuff.  You could fraking taste the anticipation leading up to EC.  Then get told your opinion doesn't matter?  That clearly you're just confused about the endings, that all that was needed were a few more details.

 

Yeah, I take the whole "we listen" with the same grain of salt I take a politician's promise. 

The trilogy is part of the universe and the events that happen in trilogy should at least be acknowledge e.g. a few lines about the reaper war and mention's of character's from the trilogy etc. 

 

Thing is there was a lot of disagreement on what the fans wanted, some fans wanted "x" others wanted "y" instead, not to mention BSN only represented a small percentage of the fan base.

[Iakus]

The trilogy is part of the universe and the events that happen in trilogy should at least be acknowledge e.g. a few lines about the reaper war and mention's of character's from the trilogy etc. 

 

Why?  What references to Baldur's Gate can be found in Neverwinter Nights? They're in the same universe.

 

Thing is there was a lot of disagreement on what the fans wanted, some fans wanted "x" others wanted "y" instead, not to mention BSN only represented a small percentage of the fan base.

 

A small enough fraction that it could be largely ignored, I guess

[Khemikael]

I do think BioWare listen to the fans but it doesn't mean they have to blindly accept every idea, (Some are really bad and just because you keep repeating them, it doesn't make them more worthy)

About the ending: People have to understand one thing. A choice is only interresting if the differents paths are equally important. If I ask you : « do you want your steak rare or medium ? » Do you feel free to pick rare even though you like it medium ? This is not a choice if the different possibilities don't have the same weight. If BioWare made a destroy ending where the Reapers died and the Geths/IDA survived, nobody would pick control or fusion. Thus the choice disapeared.

 

 

Let's stick to the subject : reboot.

What's the difference between, on one side, a reboot with a brand new story where we don't choose the starting point, where we may or may not meet ancien team-mates and, on the other side, a canon sequel with a brand new story where we don't choose the starting point, where we may or may not meet ancien team-mates.

 

I don't get this « reboot trend » it seems as bad as a canon sequel to me.

 

You'd say NWN is a reboot of BG2 ? (this is funny because early in dev, Bioware wanted to import characters from BG2 to NWN)

[Farangbaa]

I do think BioWare listen to the fans but it doesn't mean they have to blindly accept every idea, (Some are really bad and just because you keep repeating them, it doesn't make them more worthy)

 

This. If only people would understand.

 

Same goes for people's understanding of Democracy and in particular free speech. Democracy doesn't meant that what you wants happens, and free speech means you can say whatever you want, but it doesn't mean you're going to be heard.

[10K]

After seeing the endings, I think we've seen all there is to offer...

So much truth in this statement.