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[dragonflight288]

Que?

 

 

V from V for Vendetta, I only changed the last word when he introduces himself as V. 

[Willowhugger]

Some people kill characters with remarkable ease. I genuinely don't understand it, beyond the obvious fact that all men are not created equal.

 

I think having Sebastian there helped.

 

He put a face to the people brutalized by Anders' actions.

And, truth be told, I think my Anders was semi-suicidal since Karl.

He blamed Justice but I actually think Anders was suffering PTSD from what horrors he saw at Vigil's Keep.

I killed him to spare him from his guilt, to prevent people from believing mages were terrorists, to free Justice, and to end his suffering.

[Inprea]

Couldn't do it. Not cause I felt bad, didn't want to, or anything like that. But Bethany... and Carver both lived to become Wardens because of him. He cashed in a favor with Stroud to make it happen. Me not killing him cashed him out as well.

 

I never considered that. It's quite an interesting point but I never had much reason to think on it. I was quite upset with Anders but not to the point of killing him. The Grand Cleric got on my bad side the moment she claimed to feel for the mages. I wanted to tell her to go live in the circle as a mage and then see what she has to say.

[Steelcan]

comparing Anders to V is a poor analogy.

 

Anders was insane, he had a demon inside him and if rivaled he admits that he's started to lose track of his whereabouts and such.  V is working to take down a fascist government that has engaged in ethnic cleansing of both a racial and religious nature, in addition to killing hundred of thousands of others in order to scam the public.

[Eveangaline]

I'll probably go with mages on most runs but since I do lots of playthroughs I'll do em both eventually, unless one has a really terrible ending.

[Willowhugger]

comparing Anders to V is a poor analogy.

 

Anders was insane, he had a demon inside him and if rivaled he admits that he's started to lose track of his whereabouts and such.  V is working to take down a fascist government that has engaged in ethnic cleansing of both a racial and religious nature, in addition to killing hundred of thousands of others in order to scam the public.

 

Anders being insane is such a weird claim because his actions are premeditated to an extreme degree.

They're also sensible actions from an extremist ideology.

 

But yes, a great tragic character IMHO.

I think his survival makes sense in some stories but it didn't in mine and I felt a lot for it. I like to think my MageWardenHawkeQuisitor said, "I will free our people" in his ear as he stabbed him.

[Eveangaline]

I think having Sebastian there helped.

 

He put a face to the people brutalized by Anders' actions.

And, truth be told, I think my Anders was semi-suicidal since Karl.

He blamed Justice but I actually think Anders was suffering PTSD from what horrors he saw at Vigil's Keep.

I killed him to spare him from his guilt, to prevent people from believing mages were terrorists, to free Justice, and to end his suffering.

 

....Now I feel like I'm weird because I killed Anders in my first run, where I hadn't recruited Sebastian, but then let him go in all further ones because I figured if Sebastian wanted him dead so much he should do it himself not threaten me and a city of innocent people to make me do it. I mean for christs sake the bow is in your hand freaking do it yourself and don't involve other people with your revenge on a lone mage we know wasn't working with the circle or city with his act.

[dragonflight288]

comparing Anders to V is a poor analogy.

 

Anders was insane, he had a demon inside him and if rivaled he admits that he's started to lose track of his whereabouts and such.  V is working to take down a fascist government that has engaged in ethnic cleansing of both a racial and religious nature, in addition to killing hundred of thousands of others in order to scam the public.

 

.....what did the party in V for Vendetta do that the Chantry also has not done to elves, qunari and mages?

 

Ethnic and religious cleansin? Check, with the scrubbing of the Canticle of Shartan and a systematic effort to destroy elven culture and religion.

 

Killing hundreds of people and trying to scam the public? Check. The qunari in Northern Rivain. The Chantry in the area declared an exalted march and slaughtered so many people that they actually sundered the veil. Then they denied ever engaging in the attack. Also every single time they do an Annulment of a Circle. They may not be scamming the public about it, but it's still slaughtering an entire group of people, many of whom's only crime is existing and living there. 

 

And saying V is not insane while Anders is is also factually inaccurate. V most certainly could carry a conversation, but he was no hero, he killed a lot of people, and he was crazy in his own way. 

 

Evee: Are you some sort of crazy person?

V: I'm sure there are many who will say so. 

 

The only difference is that one was possessed by a spirit of justice/vengeance, and the other was consumed with rage over injustice of the government. One is in the Dragon Age universe, and the other in the V for Vendetta universe. 

[Willowhugger]

....Now I feel like I'm weird because I killed Anders in my first run, where I hadn't recruited Sebastian, but then let him go in all further ones because I figured if Sebastian wanted him dead so much he should do it himself not threaten me and a city of innocent people to make me do it. I mean for christs sake the bow is in your hand freaking do it yourself and don't involve other people with your revenge on a lone mage we know wasn't working with the circle or city with his act.

 

I took that as empty posturing. Trying to hurt Hawke a fraction of how much Hawke had hurt him.

 

Basically, his best friend and mentor figure just said, "No big deal" for the mass-murder of his home for the past decade.

The personal nature of the betrayal broke his heart and made him feel like he'd put his trust in a monster.

 

Like Fenris being handed over to Denarius.

[Eveangaline]

I took that as empty posturing. Trying to hurt Hawke a fraction of how much Hawke had hurt him.

 

Basically, his best friend and mentor figure just said, "No big deal" for the mass-murder of his home for the past decade.

The personal nature of the betrayal broke his heart and made him feel like he'd put his trust in a monster.

Like Fenris being handed over to Denarius.

 

I still would have a lot more respect for him if he tried to take a shot at Anders without telling Hawke to or threatening the city.  If they'd set it up for the PC to have to choose to stop him rather than him asking the PC to that would be so much better.

 

I don't really take it as empty, I don't think he could successfully back it up, since he'd have to take back starkhaven from his cousin first and I don't know how well he'd accomplish that without Hawke, but I think he meant to at least try.

 

Just...come on! You have the bow in your hand!

[DeityDi]

I think his survival makes sense in some stories but it didn't in mine and I felt a lot for it

It does if:

1. Obviously, pc is pretty extreme as well

2. Pc is in romance and just as selfish to let him go

3. Pc wants him to see what he's done and what he brought upon this world

4. Pc can't stand to lose someone again after Leandra and Bethany and/or Carver died

[Willowhugger]

I still would have a lot more respect for him if he tried to take a shot at Anders without telling Hawke to or threatening the city.  If they'd set it up for the PC to have to choose to stop him rather than him asking the PC to that would be so much better.

Threatening to murder everyone in Kirkwall struck me as a trifle OOC for Sebastian. A better threat would be an army to come kill HAWKE.

Because, let's face it, Sebastian wasn't stupid enough to try against him and Anders.

Everything he learned about being a 20th level Rogue was from hanging around Hawke.

[Willowhugger]

It does if:

1. Obviously, pc is pretty extreme as well

2. Pc is in romance and just as selfish to let him go

3. Pc wants him to see what he's done and what he brought upon this world

4. Pc can't stand to lose someone again after Leandra and Bethany and/or Carver died

In my non-Sebastian playthrough, my Rogue Hawke spared Anders because he didn't abandon family.

And Anders needed to clean up this mess he'd created.

Even if it took the rest of his life.

[Eveangaline]

Threatening to murder everyone in Kirkwall struck me as a trifle OOC for Sebastian. A better threat would be an army to come kill HAWKE.

Because, let's face it, Sebastian wasn't stupid enough to try against him and Anders.

Everything he learned about being a 20th level Rogue was from hanging around Hawke.

 

Seemed perfectly in character to me. I like Sebastian but he has some pretty extreme flaws.  And I'd say threatening to murder everyone in kirkwall to Hawkes face is a lot dumber than trying to shoot Anders right then. Shooting him I would have totally understood.

[Willowhugger]

Seemed perfectly in character to me. I like Sebastian but he has some pretty extreme flaws.  And I'd say threatening to murder everyone in kirkwall to Hawkes face is a lot dumber than trying to shoot Anders right then. Shooting him I would have totally understood.

 

Well people do dumb things in tragedy.

Though I think if Hawke took him seriously, he'd have blasted him as he left.

Which would have turned the entire thing into some sort of sick black comedy.

[raging_monkey]

It does if:1. Obviously, pc is pretty extreme as well2. Pc is in romance and just as selfish to let him go3. Pc wants him to see what he's done and what he brought upon this world4. Pc can't stand to lose someone again after Leandra and Bethany and/or Carver died

jennifer helper before she left said that it was poetic justice if you dont knife him. I agree dying is easy living with what you have is harder. If anders breaks and ends his life his own hand fine i can live with that but he doesnt and spends what remains of his life trying to repent knows he wont be forgiven thats fine too

[Steelcan]

.....what did the party in V for Vendetta do that the Chantry also has not done to elves, qunari and mages?

 

Ethnic and religious cleansin? Check, with the scrubbing of the Canticle of Shartan and a systematic effort to destroy elven culture and religion.

 

Killing hundreds of people and trying to scam the public? Check. The qunari in Northern Rivain. The Chantry in the area declared an exalted march and slaughtered so many people that they actually sundered the veil. Then they denied ever engaging in the attack. Also every single time they do an Annulment of a Circle. They may not be scamming the public about it, but it's still slaughtering an entire group of people, many of whom's only crime is existing and living there. 

 

And saying V is not insane while Anders is is also factually inaccurate. V most certainly could carry a conversation, but he was no hero, he killed a lot of people, and he was crazy in his own way. 

 

Evee: Are you some sort of crazy person?

V: I'm sure there are many who will say so. 

 

The only difference is that one was possessed by a spirit of justice/vengeance, and the other was consumed with rage over injustice of the government. One is in the Dragon Age universe, and the other in the V for Vendetta universe. 

The difference is a very large one

 

The Qunari, elves, and mages are actually a threat to people.

 

The Dalish fought a war with Orlais that didn't finish until the Dales burned and the elves were scattered, after they sacked the largest city in White Thedas.  Throw in the Dalish relations with humanity ever since and its very clear why the Chantry regards them as a threat if not converted.

 

The Qunari are an existential thread to all of Thedas, they are compelled by their Creed to convert the Bas at all costs.  They do not believe in dissent or any alternate way of life.  They are all consuming and a danger to every man, woman, and child in Thedas.

 

Mages are gateways to the Fade and all the dangers that come with it.  Abominations and demons can kill scores of people before being put down by templars.  They turn to blood magic which is basically a shortcut to possession.

 

Annulments are a last resort weapon to combat a tower that has fallen to abominations, it has been misused of course but comparing an annulment to the systematic spread of a disease and the torture and murder of ethnic minorities and religious opponents is a bad comparison by scale alone.

 

 

Norsefire has preyed upon members of its own society through propaganda and religious intolerance, its Big Brother, not a medieval church in a fight for its existence against ideological opponents.

 

 

I can understand people seieng the Chantry as the establishment and being upset with how things are in Thedas blaming the Chantry for the ills faced in the world.  Its not a good comparison.  Compared to the Tevinter's Old Gods, the Qun, and arguably the Dalish pantheon the Chantry is the most open minded organization we have seen

[MisterJB]

 Remember Felemeth's words? We stand on precipice of change and "there can be no peace". The same exact line is said by Anders. This is not a coincidence.

You took that out of context. What she said was that "without an end, there can be no peace." and she was referring to Aveline killing her husband to spare him the suffering of becoming a Ghoul.

 

It doesn't apply to the mage question.
 

[Eveangaline]

Well people do dumb things in tragedy.

Though I think if Hawke took him seriously, he'd have blasted him as he left.

Which would have turned the entire thing into some sort of sick black comedy.

 

I just feel like so many problems in that scene would be gone if Sebastian had just tried to kill Anders and the thing was us trying to stop him rather than him telling us to do it. And if we got to tell him off for threatening to murder a whole city.

 

I just

 

Sebastian

 

No

 

You are so stupid sometimes and normally that's hilarious but right now it is just dumb

[Willowhugger]

LOL you folks only watched the movie didn't you? V was a hardcore anarchist; not some freedom fighter. He's like the Joker in TDK minus all the organized crime elements.

 

Hilariously, as an academic with a minor in politics, I have some experience with anarchist theory.

 

The funny thing is movie V is a more accurate anarchist than Alan Moore's original one.

[Br3admax]

.....what did the party in V for Vendetta do that the Chantry also has not done to elves, qunari and mages?

 

Pretty much all of it. The Chantry hasn't done anything comparable. 

[Steelcan]

LOL you folks only watched the movie didn't you? V was a hardcore anarchist; not some freedom fighter. He's like the Joker in TDK minus all the organized crime elements.

Even if you compare the movie version of V to Anders the comparison isn't very good.

 

in the movie V fights for all men, women, and children against an oppressive government, Anders is possessed man who isn't in control of his actions

[Sir DeLoria]

Some people kill characters with remarkable ease. I genuinely don't understand it, beyond the obvious fact that all men are not created equal.

I don't normally, but Anders is an exception. His whining paired with the perfect voice for said whining is unbearable.

[Willowhugger]

I just feel like so many problems in that scene would be gone if Sebastian had just tried to kill Anders and the thing was us trying to stop him rather than him telling us to do it. And if we got to tell him off for threatening to murder a whole city.

 

I just

 

Sebastian

 

No

 

You are so stupid sometimes and normally that's hilarious but right now it is just dumb

 

Oh, I agree.

 

Sort of like Varric and the Blood Mage apprentice.

 

"I'll leave you alive, Anders." Hawke says.

*TWACK*

"Mother puss bucket..." Hawke backs away from arrow filled Anders.

"I didn't promise to," Sebastian said.