3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

Striking while the iron is hot or in this case while you're potential pursuers are in chaos and weakened makes sense. I'm just fearful that they'd cross the mountains and find a desert that isn't suitable for a large band of people to travel through. Though with the dailies knowledge of nature magic, making plants grow, and the additional mages it may be enough to grow sufficient food even in a desolate region. That would also provide an excellent barrier to pursuers or invaders.

 

Though I believe the most will actually be able to achieve is offering the mages a new home in the Inquisition. I do really like the idea of a mage elf state though where old wounds can begin healing.

I'm still not sure just how much authority the Inquisition will have, let alone whether they will have actual land that they can dole out.  We'll just have to wait and see I guess.  My skepticism on the level of power the Inquisition will have is what makes me favor solutions that don't require an agreement with any nation on Thedas... I mean, if we give the mages some land in Ferelden, for example, what's to stop the Ferelden ruler from objecting and sending out their armies?

[Willowhugger]

Mage: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[Inprea]

The way I see this going is that the mages of today manage to escape, but the Chantry establishes new Circles for future generations... I don't think they will allow them to leave.  What would likely occur is that if the Chantry can't muster the manpower to go after the mages and they do settle into a homeland to the west, that area becomes a new nation with little contact with most of Thedas, at least for a while.  The existing nations probably won't be willing to ship children across the continent to live in this new country that they didn't want to come into existence in the first place, right?  So we'd probably see Thedas return to normal except a nation of mages rises in the far west...

 

Hm... as I'm typing this, I have to wonder how such a thing could even be possible considering the save import nightmare it would cause, but it's still an interesting potential future...

 

Oh I have no doubt that it won't happen. The only thing I'm confident in we'll either be able to side with the templars or the mages and whatever group we side with will benefit from the alliance. It may even be that the reinstatement of the circles is impossible to avoid yet the group you sided with are the ones that set the new rules.

 

It's fun to speculate on though. Now I have to say that the formula you just mentioned sounds like something that would result in the rise of an empire. You have a group of skilled people that are driven out of their homeland into an unexplored region. They vanish for one hundred years. Then they return as a massive conquering army. It seems that whenever a people vanish they either become a utopia compared to the main world or a nearly unstoppable horde that threatens to overtake everything.

[Willowhugger]

I'm still not sure just how much authority the Inquisition will have, let alone whether they will have actual land that they can dole out.  We'll just have to wait and see I guess.  My skepticism on the level of power the Inquisition will have is what makes me favor solutions that don't require an agreement with any nation on Thedas... I mean, if we give the mages some land in Ferelden, for example, what's to stop the Ferelden ruler from objecting and sending out their armies?

 

On a real level, it depends on whether or not the Inquisition gets to keep any of the armies they manage to subdue.

Also, whether any of the alliances they manage to make include against other members.

The Inquisition will become AWFULLY pricky to deal with for Orlais if, for example, the Inquisition has not only the Mages and Templars but also agreements to defend it from Nevarra and Fereldan.

And the same for Nevarra and Fereldan with Orlais.

 

Of course, that might lead to Thedas War One but what's the likelihood of THAT!

[Inprea]

I'm still not sure just how much authority the Inquisition will have, let alone whether they will have actual land that they can dole out.  We'll just have to wait and see I guess.  My skepticism on the level of power the Inquisition will have is what makes me favor solutions that don't require an agreement with any nation on Thedas... I mean, if we give the mages some land in Ferelden, for example, what's to stop the Ferelden ruler from objecting and sending out their armies?

 

Depends. The Inquisitor gets really miffed and opens up a bunch of demon portals across Ferelden? If the Inquisitor can open those rifts and is the only one that can close them it seems like a really good way to blackmail people.

[Br3admax]

If I'm the Mage Inquisitor, I'm probably the highest ranking senior mage alive after Riftplosion.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my point. 

[Inprea]

I maintain this is the most probable outcome for a Mage Victory:

The Circle System is re-established with the Inquisition serving as the replacement for the Templars as their supervisors. Most surviving Templars either join the Inquisition, disband, or become mage-hunting terrorists/vigilantes.

The mages grumble less because they can join the Inquisition themselves and possibly rise to the top.

The Enchanters take over the Circle system and the Inquisition has authority to kill any mage who misbehaves, Traquil them, or Annul the Circles.

 

Which is, in a way, actually worse for them.

 

Hm I'm going to hope that if that does happen the Inquisition is more Jedi then Sith.

[Willowhugger]

That has absolutely nothing to do with my point. 

 

My point if you are suggesting the Inquisitor has no right to ask for land for their people when they, quite possibly, have every right.

[Icy Magebane]

Oh I have no doubt that it won't happen. The only thing I'm confident in we'll either be able to side with the templars or the mages and whatever group we side with will benefit from the alliance. It may even be that the reinstatement of the circles is impossible to avoid yet the group you sided with are the ones that set the new rules.

 

It's fun to speculate on though. Now I have to say that the formula you just mentioned sounds like something that would result in the rise of an empire. You have a group of skilled people that are driven out of their homeland into an unexplored region. They vanish for one hundred years. Then they return as a massive conquering army. It seems that whenever a people vanish they either become a utopia compared to the main world or a nearly unstoppable horde that threatens to overtake everything.

 

Gah... I never have likes when I need them.  I will come back to this thread later...

 

In any case, I could totally see that happening.  A nation forged by mage pioneers, with the memory of their forebears centuries of imprisonment to guide them.  If things go well, and they manage to avoid the vices practiced in the Tevinter Imperium, they could grow into a powerful nation and one day wage war against Thedas to free their fellow mages and tear down the Circles once and for all...  a touch on the romantic side perhaps, but w/e.    Sometimes it's fun to take a step back from the overwhelmingly grim nature of Thedas.

[Br3admax]

My point if you are suggesting the Inquisitor has no right to ask for land for their people when they, quite possibly, have every right.

No, you don't have the right to take land away from someone else, just for being born. 

[raging_monkey]

My point if you are suggesting the Inquisitor has no right to ask for land for their people when they, quite possibly, have every right.

in theory but probably not cause people fear a 2nd imp

[Willowhugger]

No, you don't have the right to take land away from someone else, just for being born. 

 

In a feudal society, though, that's how things work.

Land is THE commodity traded between the powerful.

And if you don't have it, you're kind of stuck.

[Br3admax]

In a feudal society, though, that's how things work.

Land is THE commodity traded between the powerful.

And if you don't have it, you're kind of stuck.

Nothing in the feudal system suggests that a high ranking lord would willingly give up their land because you want them too. Certainly nothing as large as a country. 

[Willowhugger]

Nothing in the feudal system suggests that a high ranking lord would willingly give up their land because you want them too. Certainly nothing as large as a country. 

 

Yet, Eleanor of Aquitane took away 75% of the country of France in a divorce.

Land was also given away all the time as a reward.

 

Naturally, there was usually extenuating circumstances but homelands for people have a precedent.

[Br3admax]

Yet, Eleanor of Aquitane took away 75% of the country of France in a divorce.

Land was also given away all the time as a reward.

 

Naturally, there was usually extenuating circumstances but homelands for people have a precedent.

She already had legal rights to the land. It's like you aren't even listening. None of that is comparable to a country, at least reward wise. None of that happened in a feudal system. When it did happen in our world, it sparked unrest that continues to this day because of how poorly planned it was. It's a bad idea all around. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It also depends on the country we're talking about. Ferelden is hardly feudal. Hell, I'd be willing to call it a Constitutional Monarchy if elves weren't treated so shitty.

Constitutions don't require everyone to be equal. For a while my home country's Constitution described how slaves impacted a region's population for the purposes of its voting power.

[Inprea]

Gah... I never have likes when I need them.  I will come back to this thread later...

 

In any case, I could totally see that happening.  A nation forged by mage pioneers, with the memory of their forebears centuries of imprisonment to guide them.  If things go well, and they manage to avoid the vices practiced in the Tevinter Imperium, they could grow into a powerful nation and one day wage war against Thedas to free their fellow mages and tear down the Circles once and for all...  a touch on the romantic side perhaps, but w/e.    Sometimes it's fun to take a step back from the overwhelmingly grim nature of Thedas.

 

Okay that was an amusing twist on the conquering horde concept. I was thinking of an army of stone constructs and creatures resulting from several generations of magic exposure and modifications.

[raging_monkey]

Mage reform is nice and all but having magi get land for their own use seems like playing with fire... literally. I know broad stroak arguments are frowned upon, but whats to stop them from secretly amassing a army and starting a war.

[Icy Magebane]

Okay that was an amusing twist on the conquering horde concept. I was thinking of an army of stone constructs and creatures resulting from several generations of magic exposure and modifications.

Oh my... that's certainly a possibility.  Who knows what types of magic they might develop given a hundred years of experience and a clean slate (no Tevinter Imperium moral baggage and constant Qunari attacks).  Heck, there might even be griffons living out west... I mean, that area is mostly unexplored so... the charge could potentially be led by heavily armored magical knights riding griffons?  Yes, please?

[dragonflight288]

She already had legal rights to the land. It's like you aren't even listening. None of that is comparable to a country, at least reward wise. None of that happened in a feudal system. When it did happen in our world, it sparked unrest that continues to this day because of how poorly planned it was. It's a bad idea all around. 

 

Take land by force and keep it from others,in the medieval ages, and it's your land. You'd have legal right to it simply by virtue of keeping others from claiming it. 

[Icy Magebane]

It occurred to me; what the hell are the Lucrosians up to during the Mage-Templar War? Did they vote to go to war with the rest of the Fraternities? If they didn't I bet they're profiting off the skyrocketing demand of lyrium. Smuggling is at an all time high.  

 

Are Lucrosians neutral so long as they can make money?  Which outcome is the more profitable one?  I'm guessing mage freedom has the most potential, but also the most risk.  It would have to play out a certain way or they'd lose the ability to earn any money at all.  At least in the old system they had very comfortable lives and didn't need to work that hard to make money... mix a potion here, heal a nobleman there... sit back, relax, and eat fancy meals once the day is done.  They might have more of an opportunity to become independently wealthy in the outside world, but that's only if they can set up shop somewhere and not get hauled away by the Templars the minute they are discovered...  An organized system like the Circle is probably easier to take advantage of.

[Inprea]

Mage reform is nice and all but having magi get land for their own use seems like playing with fire... literally. I know broad stroak arguments are frowned upon, but whats to stop them from secretly amassing a army and starting a war.

 

Well you might as well worry about a isolated mage circle where a group of blood mages slowly reach into the minds of their templar guards and turn them quietly and discretely. Avernus mentioned that he was able to push on the nobles to think how the Wardens wanted them to think.

 

You have a group of well educated people with magic/super powers in an isolated environment under the guard of people that see them as weapons in many cases. How many sci-fi stories have had such a scenario result in a disaster? I believe Gaider is one of the few writers who had the mages being the ones slaughtered rather then the guards as in most stories that's a near perfect mixture to produce a monster.