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[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yeah. Screw the Templars. It's all about the Teutonic Knights.

 

They'd be willing to help me kill the Dalish!

[Master Warder Z_]

Uh huh. Tevinter has plot armor. Weak.

 

I know it is!

 

How else could it survive?

 

I mean i get Andraste's march and the first blight, it still had a massive allotment of resources.

 

But for a thousand years its just been a collapsing wreck, never growing, never expanding, just collapsing inward.

 

Eventually it will be gone from the world; Presumably because the devs have a reason for it to be gone.

[Icy Magebane]

It is fair because that's exactly the role they play in a franchise that goes out of its way to paint everything in shades of moral ambiguity.

 

 

What I don't like about them is that they're a comedy act. As entertaining as their perpetual over-the-topness is, they certainly don't feel like they really "belong" in DA... or at least it feels like they're not really meant to be taken seriously.

I don't think that morality really needs to come into play when we're talking about Tevinter.  Their society is the natural outcome thousands of years of unlimited political power in the hands of mages.  In addition to being innately more powerful than mana-based magic, blood magic is capable of controlling minds.  This applies to mage and non-mage alike, so it's only natural that all of the most powerful magisters would use it to some degree, even if they initially only had self-defense on mind.  Slavery has been legal there for thousands of years and they have seen no reason to deviate from this.  If the ruling class of a nation consists of people who can wield arcane forces, any slave rebellions by non-mages are almost guaranteed to fail.  Since powerful blood magic requires the sacrifice of lives, this is even more incentive to continue the practice... the only reason not to hold slaves is due to the moral implications, which firmly take a back seat when one's own survival hinges on being morally flexible.  Finally, we have the excessive violence often talked about by those who escaped from or briefly viewed Tevinter.  Again it stands to reason that a society in which blood sacrifice is commonplace among the ruling class and in which slavery has been practiced for several thousand years, life would be cheap.  I have no doubt that the Magister Lords would not think twice about killing a slave, as there are plenty of replacements on hand.

 

There may be people within the Imperium who are torn or outright reject this culture.  Dorian is probably a good example of this.  That does not, however, invalidate the culture or make it farcical in nature.  It is the realistic and logical outcome when you combine certain factors in a fictional world.  They belong because of the nature of magic in Thedas.  If anything they are one of the best examples of the lore being used to realistically present a chain of cause and effect that spans several millennia.

[Master Warder Z_]

Magic. Thousands of years of magic.

 

White Thedas has Magic, The Qunari have Magic, The Darkspawn have magic.

 

That stops being a major advantage when the enemy can match you resource for resource and even exceed your own.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Magic. Thousands of years of magic.

 

That's nice but seriously tho why on earth do you think calling Tevinter Fantasy! Byzantium and Minrathos Fantasy Constantinople is a bad thing?

[TTTX]

White Thedas has Magic, The Qunari have Magic, The Darkspawn have magic.

 

That stops being a major advantage when the enemy can match you resource for resource and even exceed your own.

Tevinter has better researched magic.

 

 

I know it is!

 

How else could it survive?

 

I mean i get Andraste's march and the first blight, it still had a massive allotment of resources.

 

But for a thousand years its just been a collapsing wreck, never growing, never expanding, just collapsing inward.

 

Eventually it will be gone from the world; Presumably because the devs have a reason for it to be gone.

either that or it will change into a new Tevinter a more friendly Tevinter.

[Asdrubael Vect]

How else could it survive?

 

I mean i get Andraste's march and the first blight, it still had a massive allotment of resources.

 

But for a thousand years its just been a collapsing wreck, never growing, never expanding, just collapsing inward.

 

Eventually it will be gone from the world; Presumably because the devs have a reason for it to be gone.

because they was strong, rich and the only the most civilized lefted place in Thedas exept Orzammar and Kal-Sharok after first blight..they was create Grey Wardens and equip them with the most expensive gear, kill 3 archdeamons and do not do a wars exept selfdefense, fight with darkspawns and Qunari when now, they mostly  give  some money to Felicima Armada and they destroy Qunari ships in west while Tevinters destroy all who try to land on their lands and tacke survived as prisoners for dirty work

 

Andraste was easily crushed and Tevinter because of her only become stronger and left useless colonies like Rivain, Antiva and others

 

for ~1100 year Tevinter was not stupid and blind hungry as idiots from Orlais and spend his resourses for itself not for marshes what always was crushed..and the most good what Tevinter have is a Quanri invasion after what he is become invincible from south and north what was defensless for milenia

 

Modern Tevinter does not need to expand mostly because he have the most biggest and well builded cities in Thedas what before 1 blight have much more population as dwarven empire..it is no make sense for him to expand he just wait when the rest of Thedas who lived on his lefted legasy to become his colonies again...

 

Nevarra from her creation is ruled by Mortalitasi who was created by Magister...and Antiva with Rivain was buyed by Tevinters, even Titus have damn merchant prince as his puppet...half of Free Marshes influenced by Tevinter and Nevarra

[raging_monkey]

Love to go to tevinter unrestricted knowledge and lovely outfits

[Master Warder Z_]

they was create Grey Wardens

 

Incorrect, defected Ander Soldiers, Magisters and alike formed the Wardens.

 

About the only useful thing they contributed was the joining, and i still think they just inserted themselves into that unneedly.

 

I mean come on, why wouldn't any Alchemist do what they did?

[Icy Magebane]

Love to go to tevinter unrestricted knowledge and lovely outfits

Yeah, that's what a lot of people think, then get confused when they wind up in chains.

[Br3admax]

because they was strong, rich and the only the most civilized lefted place in Thedas exept Orzammar and Kal-Sharok after first blight..they was create Grey Wardens and equip them with the most expensive gear, kill 3 archdeamons and do not do a wars exept selfdefense, fight with darkspawns and Qunari when now, they mostly  give  some money to Felicima Armada and they destroy Qunari ships in west while Tevinters destroy all who try to land on their lands and tacke survived as prisoners for dirty work

 

Andraste was easily crushed and Tevinter because of her only become stronger and left useless colonies like Rivain, Antiva and others

 

for ~1100 year Tevinter was not stupid and blind hungry as idiots from Orlais and spend his resourses for itself not for marshes what always was crushed..and the most good what Tevinter have is a Quanri invasion after what he is become invincible from south and north what was defensless for milenia

 

Modern Tevinter does not need to expand mostly because he have the most biggest and well builded cities in Thedas what before 1 blight have much more population as dwarven empire..it is no make sense for him to expand he just wait when the rest of Thedas who lived on his lefted legasy to become his colonies again...

 

Nevarra from her creation is ruled by Mortalitasi who was created by Magister...and Antiva with Rivain was buyed by Tevinters, even Titus have damn merchant prince as his puppet...half of Free Marshes influenced by Tevinter and Nevarra

From what I scavenged from this mess, you have no idea what you're talking about? Is that correct? 

[Asdrubael Vect]

Incorrect, defected Ander Soldiers, Magisters and alike formed the Wardens.

 

About the only useful thing they contributed was the joining, and i still think they just inserted themselves into that unneedly.

 

I mean come on, why wouldn't any Alchemist do what they did?

Tevinter officially builded Weishaup, give them griffons(and take all what left from them)

 

they give them everything. they created them to be who they are..and make them neutral as UN because they know that it was the best strategic solution

 

the formula was created by magisters with elven knoledge from arlathan age

[raging_monkey]

Yeah, that's what a lot of people think, then get confused when they wind up in chains.

mmm hopefully i get a pretty magister/owner i can find some use with chains lol . Jokes aside my only grip is that the magi hold too much power, hold slaves and BM

[raging_monkey]

Tevinter officially builded Weishaup, give them griffons(and take all what left from them) they give them everything. they created them to be who they are..and make them neutral as UN because they know that it was the best strategic solution the formula was created by magisters with elven knoledge from arlathan age

im promage and i know this is inaccurate my friend

[Asdrubael Vect]

From what I scavenged from this mess, you have no idea what you're talking about? Is that correct? 

 spare me from your bullshit. If you have something to say so go on, but do not give me such crap

[Master Warder Z_]

From what I scavenged from this mess, you have no idea what you're talking about? Is that correct? 

 

Seems so basically.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Incorrect, defected Ander Soldiers, Magisters and alike formed the Wardens.

 

About the only useful thing they contributed was the joining, and i still think they just inserted themselves into that unneedly.

 

I mean come on, why wouldn't any Alchemist do what they did?

Wasn't all of Thedas Tevinter back then, and every mage of note anywhere a Magister?

[The Baconer]

I don't think that morality really needs to come into play when we're talking about Tevinter.  Their society is the natural outcome thousands of years of unlimited political power in the hands of mages.  In addition to being innately more powerful than mana-based magic, blood magic is capable of controlling minds.  This applies to mage and non-mage alike, so it's only natural that all of the most powerful magisters would use it to some degree, even if they initially only had self-defense on mind.  Slavery has been legal there for thousands of years and they have seen no reason to deviate from this.  If the ruling class of a nation consists of people who can wield arcane forces, any slave rebellions by non-mages are almost guaranteed to fail.

 

A large amount of their previous holdings were in fact lost through slave rebellions, and not the one lead by Andraste.

 

Since powerful blood magic requires the sacrifice of lives, this is even more incentive to continue the practice... the only reason not to hold slaves is due to the moral implications, which firmly take a back seat when one's own survival hinges on being morally flexible.  Finally, we have the excessive violence often talked about by those who escaped from or briefly viewed Tevinter.  Again it stands to reason that a society in which blood sacrifice is commonplace among the ruling class and in which slavery has been practiced for several thousand years, life would be cheap.  I have no doubt that the Magister Lords would not think twice about killing a slave, as there are plenty of replacements on hand.

 

There may be people within the Imperium who are torn or outright reject this culture.  Dorian is probably a good example of this.  That does not, however, invalidate the culture or make it farcical in nature.  It is the realistic and logical outcome when you combine certain factors in a fictional world.  They belong because of the nature of magic in Thedas.  If anything they are one of the best examples of the lore being used to realistically present a chain of cause and effect that spans several millennia.

 

Maybe it was realistic before its fall, but as Z has stated, it is only by plot armor that the Magisters are able to continue on with this lifestyle to the present day.

 

Here is a nation that literally has no allies to speak of among the kingdoms. Multiple times, they have been brought to the brink of complete ruin, having their proverbial **** pushed in until only their capital remains. Somehow, not only do they still manage to push out and avoid becoming a city-state, they are still the largest consumer of two of some of the most expensive resources in the world: Lyrium and slaves.

 

Who the hell is popping out the bodies they'd need for all the sacrifices, all the troops needed to hold their lands, all the troops needed to fight their (losing) war with the Qunari? Where the hell do they get the money to live a life somehow even more debased and decadent than their Orlesian neighbors when literally nobody wants to do business with them outside of the various black markets? What do they even export?

 

Even at this scale (as opposed to covering most of Thedas like it used to), it's just not sustainable.

[Master Warder Z_]

Wasn't all of Thedas Tevinter back then, and every mage of note anywhere a Magister?

 

Bleh 

 

Semantics.

 

Not all resistance to the blight came from the Imperium, that was my point.

[raging_monkey]

Wasn't all of Thedas Tevinter back then, and every mage of note anywhere a Magister?

some where tribals i believe

[Br3admax]

 spare me from your bullshit. If you have something to say so go on, but do not give me such crap

You have no idea about how an empire works.

You have no knowledge of the Grey Wardens.

You have no knowledge on the value of land.

You called almost all of Thedas worthless because Tevinter doesn't own it. 

You act like Tevinter is some powerhouse when they got steamrolled by the qunari.

You don't have a grasp on what the word "has" means.

But I'm bullshitting. 

 

You, sir, are a Paragon of genius. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I hope in a future game we can teat down the establishment known as the Tevinter Imperium. No slavery, actually have blood magic be illegal, etc. 

[Master Warder Z_]

A large amount of their previous holdings were in fact lost through slave rebellions, and not the one lead by Andraste.

 

Kirkwall falling had nothing to do with Andraste and in fact its rebellion was after her death by some decades.