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[Willowhugger]

I hope in a future game we can teat down the establishment known as the Tevinter Imperium. No slavery, actually have blood magic be illegal, etc. 

 

How different things would be if Lambert's Black Divine friend had the courage of his convictions.

[The Baconer]

How different things would be if Lambert's Black Divine friend had the courage of his convictions.

 

Most likely? Not much different. He'd probably be dead.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Bleh 

 

Semantics.

 

Not all resistance to the blight came from the Imperium, that was my point.

No, just the effective resistance. I'm not saying that the Tevinter Imperium did much for the resistance against the other Blights. They didn't. In fact they were more of a hindrance for the Fifth Blight than they were a help. I'm just saying that there really was nobody else who could have ended the First Blight apart from the Tevinters. (Since if anyone else even could have, the Tevinters had destroyed them.)

[Master Warder Z_]

How different things would be if Lambert's Black Divine friend had the courage of his convictions.

 

Probably not very considering even Archons have been assassinated when they attempt to change things.

[raging_monkey]

How different things would be if Lambert's Black Divine friend had the courage of his convictions.

argreed

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No thanks. Blood magic is illegal in Tevinter. And unlike Orlais slavery in Tevinter is honest. I'd wager slaves in Tevinter get treated better than 'servants' in Orlais due to the fact that they're viewed as expensive property. Unlike Tevinter Orlais can poach their servants from the Dales whenever they like.

So you support the establishment that believes sacrificing a five year old boy in a blood magic ritual is an acceptable form of entertainment for a party? 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No thanks. Blood magic is illegal in Tevinter. Making it extra illegal won't change anything if it's being practiced behind closed doors. And unlike Orlais slavery in Tevinter is honest. I'd wager slaves in Tevinter get treated better than 'servants' in Orlais due to the fact that they're viewed as expensive property. Unlike Tevinter Orlais can poach their servants from the Dales whenever they like.

And Tevinter can poach theirs from the entire world. Everywhere seems to sell to Tevinter. The difference in Ferelden, if there is one, is that they only did it the one time.

 

 

So you support the establishment that believes sacrificing a five year old boy in a blood magic ritual is an acceptable form of entertainment for a party? 

He argues that this wouldn't happen because the Tevinters would be stupid to throw slaves away like that. Which they would be, but from all we have any reason to believe that doesn't stop them.

[Icy Magebane]

A large amount of their previous holdings were in fact lost through slave rebellions, and not the one lead by Andraste.

 

 

Maybe it was realistic before its fall, but as Z has stated, it is only by plot armor that the Magisters are able to continue on with this lifestyle to the present day.

 

Here is a nation that literally has no allies to speak of among the kingdoms. Multiple times, they have been brought to the brink of complete ruin, having their proverbial **** pushed in until only their capital remains. Somehow, not only do they still manage to push out and avoid becoming a city-state, they are still the largest consumer of two of some of the most expensive resources in the world: Lyrium and slaves.

 

Who the hell is popping out the bodies they'd need for all the sacrifices, all the troops needed to hold their lands, all the troops needed to fight their (losing) war with the Qunari? Where the hell do they get the money to live a life somehow even more debased and decadent than their Orlesian neighbors when literally nobody wants to do business with them outside of the various black markets? What do they even export?

 

Even at this scale (as opposed to covering most of Thedas like it used to), it's just not sustainable.

Well, I still don't think their cultural attitudes and practices are too much of an exaggeration considering the variables in play, but I do agree that they have survived in this manner for far longer than is reasonable.  Dragon Age has a few cultures that have remained stagnant for hundreds of years without ever seeking a different path or evolving in any way, and I'll admit that this is one of the series's shortcomings.  Perhaps a change in Tevinter's culture is long overdue.  Heck, maybe even a civil war or popular revolt would be in order... it seems like this is one of many examples where a society is waiting for a PC to intervene or a game to specifically address their situation rather than having changes unfold naturally.  I'd say that if we cut the time between the fall of Teventer and today by about 300-500 years, the story would make more sense overall...

[Master Warder Z_]

One Magister isn't the Imperium. 

 

One Magister is the imperium.

 

They all part of that culture that instills that if you are not in power you can die for those who at their whim, honestly least in battle you have a chance to survive if you get conscripted down south.

 

But with the Magisters? No they will just drain you dry to power a spell.

[Icy Magebane]

No thanks. Blood magic is illegal in Tevinter. Making it extra illegal won't change anything if it's being practiced behind closed doors. At least slavery in Tevinter is honest. I'd wager slaves in Tevinter get treated better than Orlesian 'servants' do. Probably because they're viewed as expensive property. Unlike Tevinter Orlais can poach their servants from the Dales whenever they like.

I think that "tearing down" the establishment in Tevinter would include killing the Magister Lords and putting the mages in proper Circles.  There would be no point in letting them walk free and hoping they don't revert to their old ways.

[raging_monkey]

If tevinter is overhauled it will be no different from the white chantry aligned states.

[Asdrubael Vect]

You have no idea about how an empire works.

You have no knowledge of the Grey Wardens.

You have no knowledge on the value of land.

You called almost all of Thedas worthless because Tevinter doesn't own it. 

You act like Tevinter is some powerhouse when they got steamrolled by the qunari.

You don't have a grasp on what the word "has" means.

But I'm bullshitting. 

 

You, sir, are a Paragon of genius. 

1)orly? empires expand then they get a profit, for modern Tevinter is officially no profit in such stupid wars as Orlais do..Orais was crushed because of his stupidity and Tevinter does not give a sh*t. Tevinter only become more powerfull when Orlais will fall and after can deal with Qunari..and only when it would think about expansion if he would need

 

2)so this is me or it was wrote that in the midle of blight on Tevinter borders Weishaup Fortress was builded and in this fortress was sended Tevinters veterans who fight with darkspawns, and magisters with elven knoledge create formula and after that grey wardens was formed who officially become neutral to fight with darkspawns...and i am wrong about griffons and 3 Tevinters wars against archdeamons when Tevinters kill 3 archdeamons

 

you know who support them, give money, peolples, knoledges and have connection with dwarves and support their creation of Golems(and have a golem army from dwarves with 3 the most powerfull golems ever) and was in charge in Amgarrak

 

yeah it was all Tevinter

 

3)you know we have official info about Tevinter value of the rest of Thedas lands...Tevinter does not need them. for them those are barbarian and wild lands with a huge lack of civilization

 

4)Qunari invade from nowhere in defendles north when most of Tevinters defenses was turned against Orlais who was on south...they landed and spread on Tevinter and many thedas lands and only Tevinter was able to fight with them and win them, while the rest of thedas was weakened and bankrupt and was saved by peace...they saved themselfs and Tevinter do not stop war, kill and enslave all lefted who was on his lands  and after build so powerfull fortification so after their failed invasion Qunari only send their soldiers to death or slavery

 

5)oh i think i pretty do and understand what was and what is become

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think that "tearing down" the establishment in Tevinter would include killing the Magister Lords and putting the mages in proper Circles.  There would be no point in letting them walk free and hoping they don't revert to their old ways.

Or if you want poetic justice, make them Tranquil and then serve the slaves they once owned.

[Icy Magebane]

That's never going to happen. Tevinter culture is synonymous with mages and magic.

I don't know about all that.  Never is a long time and Tevinter has been kept on the defensive by the Qunari for a a while.  That can't last indefinitely, but then again this is fiction.  Maybe the stalemate between Tevinter and their neighbors will last, maybe it won't, but if we ever have the opportunity to bring Tevinter down, leaving their mages free would obviously be a bad idea.

[Icy Magebane]

Or if you want poetic justice, make them Tranquil and then serve the slaves they once owned.

The look on their faces when their sentence gets declared would be priceless, even if that horror only lasts for a short while...

[raging_monkey]

You forgot about that part where the walls of Minrathous have never been breached. Seriously I dislike what I've heard about Tevinter as much as the next man. But I've also read in WoT which is WoG that everything Tevinter gets filtered through the White Chantry before it hits the masses. I'm convinced that most of it is propaganda and the delusions of a lyrium addled amnesiac elf.

even filtered stuff has some truth. Besides as evil as tevinter is whats the benifit of bringing tevinter under white chantry law. All i see is we get x amount of circles, lack of a mageocracy and debateable freedom of slaves. Seems a high cost to get rid of a culture

[Master Warder Z_]

and 3 Tevinters wars against archdeamons when Tevinters kill 3 archdeamons

 

Actually Orlesians defeated the second blight, the third one was in the free marches and many nations helped, the fourth Tevinter sent no aid outside of Tevinter and the majority of the Blight took place in Antiva and the Freemarches regardless.

 

So about the only blight they have a notable presence in was the first, apart from that they were one nation among many sending armies, when they bothered to even do that.

[Icy Magebane]

I know the Qunari can and will take Tevinter when the time comes. But Minathrous won't fall.

What about food?  If the Qunari take all of the surrounding lands, that city can only last for too long... meh... tbh this is something the writers will decide, not us, regardless of what arguments we can come up with.  I'll just accept that you may be right and leave it at that I guess.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You forgot about that part where the walls of Minrathous have never been breached. Seriously I dislike what I've heard about Tevinter as much as the next man. But I've also read in WoT which is WoG that everything Tevinter gets filtered through the White Chantry before it hits the masses. I'm convinced that most of it is propaganda and the delusions of a lyrium addled amnesiac elf.

I haven't forgotten. But if a game takes place in Tevinter(which is likely since there are so many stories to tell there) then you are already in the walls. 

That or just another example of a protagonist achieving the 'impossible'. 

 

As for what we hear about Tevinter being filtered through the Chantry, we've run into enough slavers and Magisters to see that the Chantry isn't lying about them.