3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, my character would not be making their decision based on this knowledge. In her eyes, they can either choose to submit peacefully, or they can make peace with the Maker in person.

 

Thedas is being tested, to negotiate or make deals with sinners and fugitives would defeat the purpose of its salvation entirely.

Maybe so, but Bioware might make this decision for you based on that knowledge. Or they might let us take over both factions. (I hope it's the latter, and I might believe it is after watching that video.)

[Xilizhra]

I'd agree that ending both rebellions would be ideal, and at least the leaders of both factions should probably lose their heads or be imprisoned for life or something. This will probably require crushing both armies. That said, we apparently aren't getting the option, possibly because Bioware figured that doing that would end in the Inquisitor not having the raw military power left to defeat the demons.

Why? Not even the Chantry wanted to do that.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why? Not even the Chantry wanted to do that.

The Templars have gone mad, and to a larger degree than the mages are responsible for this war. The reasonable ones I want to co-opt, but the Templar leadership does not seem to be among them. Then there's the mages; I agree that a good number of the Templars are asses, but the Circles serve the necessary function of making sure abominations don't form in the general population of Thedas. (They also serve the necessary function of restraining irresponsible and outright malevolent mages, but if that couldn't be handled in different ways Tamriel would be a smoking ruin by now.) So, they're going to need to go back. And this probably won't be done quietly.

[Master Warder Z_]

Why? Not even the Chantry wanted to do that.

 

To be honest i just wish to crush the mage rebellion, that makes the Templar rebellion moot.

 

That was the goal of them leaving the Chantry anyway, they would be able to do their job, without rebelling mages the templars will return.

[Hellion Rex]

The Templars have gone mad, and to a larger degree than the mages are responsible for this war. The reasonable ones I want to co-opt, but the Templar leadership does not seem to be among them. Then there's the mages; I agree that the Templars are asses, but the Circles serve the necessary function of making sure abominations don't form in the general population of Thedas. (They also serve the necessary function of restraining irresponsible and outright malevolent mages, but if that couldn't be handled in different ways Tamriel would be a smoking ruin by now.) So, they're going to need to go back. And this probably won't be done quietly.

Not all of the Templars have gone nuts. Recent info seems to suggest that Cassandra and Cullen do have a lot of former templars in our army. So it would seem that we have 3 templar "factions" going on right now: Red Templars, Lambert's group (presumably the idiots in the Hinterlands), and the group of templars that now comprise parts of our army.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not all of the Templars have gone nuts. Recent info seems to suggest that Cassandra and Cullen do have a lot of former templars in our army. So it would seem that we have 3 templar "factions" going on right now: Red Templars, Lambert's group (presumably the idiots in the Hinterlands), and the group of templars that now comprise parts of our army.

Oh, so I am the reasonable Templars? Well, that simplifies matters.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not all of the Templars have gone nuts. Recent info seems to suggest that Cassandra and Cullen do have a lot of former templars in our army. So it would seem that we have 3 templar "factions" going on right now: Red Templars, Lambert's group (presumably the idiots in the Hinterlands), and the group of templars that now comprise parts of our army.

 

<.< Your the idiots in the hinterlands.

[Xilizhra]

The Templars have gone mad, and to a larger degree than the mages are responsible for this war. The reasonable ones I want to co-opt, but the Templar leadership does not seem to be among them. Then there's the mages; I agree that a good number of the Templars are asses, but the Circles serve the necessary function of making sure abominations don't form in the general population of Thedas. (They also serve the necessary function of restraining irresponsible and outright malevolent mages, but if that couldn't be handled in different ways Tamriel would be a smoking ruin by now.) So, they're going to need to go back. And this probably won't be done quietly.

Go back? That strikes me as rather pointless. Why not build something new that they can have a hand in creating? It's within their interest to not be possessed, after all.

[Willowhugger]

The thing is, I'm pretty sure the mages never wanted to dissolve the Circles.

That was a fan desire.

 

The mages just wanted to be free of the Templars.

And even then, it was Fiona and Lambert pressing for radical change.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Go back? That strikes me as rather pointless. Why not build something new that they can have a hand in creating? It's within their interest to not be possessed, after all.

The problem is that I can't think what apart from the Circle system will do what society needs. Nor do I want the mages to have to end exactly where they started, thus meaning that the rebellion was a complete waste of both sides' lives. I'd certainly want the Templars (or whatever group replaces them) to be more responsible to the mages than they previously were, and I'd probably take suggestions on how that might happen.

[Xilizhra]

The problem is that I can't think what apart from the Circle system will do what society needs. Nor do I want the mages to have to end exactly where they started, thus meaning that the rebellion was a complete waste of both sides' lives. I'd certainly want the Templars (or whatever group replaces them) to be more responsible to the mages than they previously were.

Probably it'd be something similar to the Circle system in some ways, but with numerous improvements.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Probably it'd be something similar to the Circle system in some ways, but with numerous improvements.

That's my ideal outcome, yes.

[Willowhugger]

The problem is that I can't think what apart from the Circle system will do what society needs. Nor do I want the mages to have to end exactly where they started, thus meaning that the rebellion was a complete waste of both sides' lives. I'd certainly want the Templars (or whatever group replaces them) to be more responsible to the mages than they previously were, and I'd probably take suggestions on how that might happen.

 

My reformed Circles?

1. No Templars with the Inquisition replacing them

2. No Tranquil
3. Mages allowed to raise their own children
4. Annulments only when they're actually all demon possessed or evil

5. Mages free to leave the Towers when they're passed their Harrowing

 

The thing is, I think only a few minor reforms would have prevented the Circles rebelling.

 

I do think Anders-type folks would never have been happy in the Circles.

But I don't think he was happy being free either.

So sad.

[Xilizhra]

That's my ideal outcome, yes.

There's no need to crush the mages for that, then.

[Willowhugger]

There's no need to crush the mages for that, then.

 

I think the Templars may want radical reform too.

 

1. No College of Enchanters

2. Complete authority of the Templars to Tranquil or execute mages
3. Total control over the Circle
4. Forbidding research by mages into areas they deem unsuitable

That sort of thing.

 

I think the Red Templars are probably the.

 

1. Kill every single mage once identified

Faction

[Master Warder Z_]

There's no need to crush the mages for that, then.

 

I'd disagree with that, placing them in a position of strength removes impartiality.

 

To be honest that's about the only appeal of crushing both factions, you prevent either from dictating terms allowing you to do so.

[Xilizhra]

I think the Templars may want radical reform too.

 

1. No College of Enchanters

2. Complete authority of the Templars to Tranquil or execute mages
3. Total control over the Circle
4. Forbidding research by mages into areas they deem unsuitable

That sort of thing.

 

I think the Red Templars are probably the.

 

1. Kill every single mage once identified

Faction

Oh. Well, the templars I'm crushing either way.

 

 

I'd disagree with that, placing them in a position of strength removes impartiality.

 

To be honest that's about the only appeal of crushing both factions, you prevent either from dictating terms allowing you to do so.

I don't think you'd have impartiality regardless.

[The Baconer]

There's no need to crush the mages for that, then.

 

There's no need to crush anyone, as long as they surrender. Those continuing to act in armed resistance can only expect a violent response in kind.

 

Of course, it is my intention that neither the Templars or the mages will have a say in what reforms are made. Both factions have long discarded their right to do so.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There's no need to crush the mages for that, then.

I'm not so sure. I actually see the need for some of the things that the mages might object to. Tranquility, for instance, serves an actual function when properly used for all that Alrik had it serving his own twisted ends. And the Annulment? Meredith used it wrong, and the Rivaini Seeker apparently used it against relatively non-threatening mages as an alternative to actually thinking through the situation, but Gregoir's case it ended up being obviated only because the PC (who follows different rules) came along. And then there's that nut, Adrian, who I'm given to understand has actual authority in the rebellion despite being of questionable sanity. I doubt she's going to accept any third party interference that doesn't give her everything she wants.

[Master Warder Z_]

Of course, it is my intention that neither the Templars or the mages will have a say in what reforms are made. Both factions have long discarded their right to do so.

 

As i said, pretty much the only reason to go this route.

[Master Warder Z_]

I don't think you'd have impartiality regardless.

 

Do i even need to make a kettle reference?

[raging_monkey]

I'd disagree with that, placing them in a position of strength removes impartiality. To be honest that's about the only appeal of crushing both factions, you prevent either from dictating terms allowing you to do so.

your a hardliner but that makes perfect sense

[Xilizhra]

I'm not so sure. I actually see the need for some of the things that the mages might object to. Tranquility, for instance, serves an actual function when properly used for all that Alrik had it serving his own twisted ends. And the Annulment? Meredith used it wrong, and the Rivaini Seeker apparently used it against relatively non-threatening mages as an alternative to actually thinking through the situation, but Gregoir's case it ended up being obviated only because the PC (who follows different rules) came along. And then there's that nut, Adrian, who I'm given to understand has actual authority in the rebellion despite being of questionable sanity. I doubt she's going to accept any third party interference that doesn't give her everything she wants.

I suspect you underestimate Adrian, and the Annulment is utterly unnecessary when all you have to do is fight demons. As for Tranquility, I see it as only possibly being valid if it's voluntary.

[The Ascendant]

Ultimately, who will know more about a Breach in the Veil? People who understand the Fade better than anyone, or people who are very good at killing demons and mages? They both bring their own strengths and weaknesses to the Inquisition. In order to defeat the enemy you must know the enemy. Mortal men and women are in abundance, but who knows more about spirits and demons?

[The Ascendant]

If it isn't obvious, I am pro mage, continuing the thread a of human male mage protagonist. Hmmmm..... I've just noticed something. The Amell Warden is from Kirkwall and was sent to Ferelden. Hawke was from Ferelden and went to the Free Marches. Trevelyan is from the Free Marches and is sent to Ferelden/Orlais. It's like a game of heroic tennis. Sending them back and forth between nations.