3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumix19]

Personally I think the hate for Tevinter is somewhat unwarranted. Do they have slavery? Yes. Is it because their economy and country would collapse because of it? Yes. Do other countries have slavery? Orlais anybody? Admittedly though Orlais are much nicer to their slaves because they don't want to be caught out whereas Tevinter use them for everything and anything. Regardless Tevinter is a good example of how mages can rule themselves and not turn into raging abominations that end the world even though most of them are also blood mages. Food for thought there. People are deluding themselves though if they think another Tevinter is possible, the current Tevinter only exists because of their unique culture and the fact that magic was and continues to be considered a gift. Tevinter didn't come about because mages just smashed their way to the top.

[raging_monkey]

I like DrBlingzle's idea, but I'd like to retire all current active Templars and replace them with clones of Evangeline...On a serious note though, I would like the order to consist of only those Templars like Evangeline, compassion and empathy HAVE to be qualifications.

some times compassion and empathy just like malice and paranoia can cloud judgment

[Ajna]

No compassion and empathy ensure that you stay human. I'll never agree that it's better to be without.

[raging_monkey]

No compassion and empathy ensure that you stay human. I'll never agree that it's better to be without.

i somewhat agree its always better air on caution. If you empathize too much it COULD affect ones job but i could also be wrong i would have to see how the new system would work tovmake a final judgement

[Beerfish]

I like DrBlingzle's idea, but I'd like to retire all current active Templars and replace them with clones of Evangeline...

On a serious note though, I would like the order to consist of only those Templars like Evangeline, compassion and empathy HAVE to be qualifications.

Evangeline was a huge traitor, one who tossed away her vows, turned her back on her fellow templars and in fact had a hand in some of their murders.  All because she fell for some idiotic selfish mage.  If you want Evangeline to be a shining beacon then you want to totally destroy templars, destroy circles and let mages do whatever the fug they want to do.

[Beerfish]

Personally I think the hate for Tevinter is somewhat unwarranted. Do they have slavery? Yes. Is it because their economy and country would collapse because of it? Yes. Do other countries have slavery? Orlais anybody? Admittedly though Orlais are much nicer to their slaves because they don't want to be caught out whereas Tevinter use them for everything and anything. Regardless Tevinter is a good example of how mages can rule themselves and not turn into raging abominations that end the world even though most of them are also blood mages. Food for thought there. People are deluding themselves though if they think another Tevinter is possible, the current Tevinter only exists because of their unique culture and the fact that magic was and continues to be considered a gift. Tevinter didn't come about because mages just smashed their way to the top.

As pointed out by Dave Gaider numerous times, this thought that Tevinter is some panacea for mages is very dubious thinking.  I also disagree with your last line, mages did indeed smash their way to the top of the heap.

[Lumix19]

Evangeline was a huge traitor, one who tossed away her vows, turned her back on her fellow templars and in fact had a hand in some of their murders. All because she fell for some idiotic selfish mage. If you want Evangeline to be a shining beacon then you want to totally destroy templars, destroy circles and let mages do whatever the fug they want to do.

Which is actually what some people want. Mages aren't going to end the world if they rule themselves you know.

[Willowhugger]

As pointed out by Dave Gaider numerous times, this thought that Tevinter is some panacea for mages is very dubious thinking.  I also disagree with your last line, mages did indeed smash their way to the top of the heap.

 

Kind-of, sort of. They smashed their way to the top but no one cared because that was how Tevinter had always done things before the White Divine tried to say otherwise.

[Willowhugger]

Which is actually what some people want. Mages aren't going to end the world if they rule themselves you know.

Sounds good to me.

Except I add the caveat. "If whatever they want is to act like a Sith Lord, then they get the bow/staff in the face."

[Willowhugger]

Evangeline is the best Templar.

However, I think that Dragon Age 2 for all of its faults showed there WAS a problem with Ser Thrask types. Ser Thrask was so focused on the issue of Mage Oppression, that he missed that some mages were evil ****s. Now, you might argue the burden of proof is not on the oppressed to prove they're not dangerous but the cruelty and evil of Kirkwall's Blood Mages got a lot of innocents killed.

 

As Vimes' said, "Just because you're a member of a minority doesn't mean you can't be an enormous jerk."

 

Dragon Age is a good franchise because it remembers this isn't Star Wars.

The Empire is evil.

But the Rebels also throw bombs in this one.

[Lumix19]

As pointed out by Dave Gaider numerous times, this thought that Tevinter is some panacea for mages is very dubious thinking. I also disagree with your last line, mages did indeed smash their way to the top of the heap.

Perhaps it's not a paradise but I still think it flies in the face of the Chantry/Templar idea that mages need to be controlled, the Tevinter mages govern themselves pretty well and a lot of them are blood mages which some people think is an instant ticket to Abominationhood. Did mages smash their way to the top? I thought they attained their upper class status because their culture is so pro-magic? Admittedly that's an assumption with no source.

[raging_monkey]

Terrorism even for noble ideals is still terrorism

[Mistic]

Which is actually what some people want. Mages aren't going to end the world if they rule themselves you know.

 

Except for the Blight. And let's see how the Breach is created in DA:I before stating such things.

 

Terrorism even for noble ideals is still terrorism

 

Unless you win. In which case the winner writes the history books and calls themselves "freedom fighters", and any act of violence "a necessary sacrifice for the cause".

[Ajna]

I prefer it when you crack jokes Mr fish, you're so good at it, this serious streak has me phased

[raging_monkey]

Except for the Blight. And let's see how the Breach is created in DA:I before stating such things.  Unless you win. In which case the winner writes the history books and calls themselves "freedom fighters", and any act of violence "a necessary sacrifice for the cause".

still morally disgusting imo.

[Lulupab]

still morally disgusting imo.

Except the concept of Terrorism didn't exit in dark ages and almost all problems were solved with violence. Thedas is in a dark age.

[Mistic]

Except the concept of Terrorism didn't exit in dark ages and almost all problems were solved with violence. Thedas is in a dark age.

 

They also have the concept of peaceful (and more important, successful) protest. That's something.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lulupad:  Don't you want to free the mages?  Civil rights isn't a "dark age" mentality. 

 

It depends really on what "terrorism" means - but no, I actually do not believe local lords actively terrorized their people randomly to keep them in check.  Nor do I believe one warlord would specifically target the innocent peasants of another simply to cause terror among his populace. 

 

Raiding, marauding, conquest - yes, they all cause "terror" - but I think "terrorism" is a very specific type of thing with a very specific purpose.

 

In fact - peasants were property to medieval lords.  Harming one was a huge insult, and taking care of them was actually high on many local lords lists (as you don't just let your property go to waste do you?) 

This notion that medieval peasants lived in 24/7 fear is not historically accurate.

[raging_monkey]

Except the concept of Terrorism didn't exit in dark ages and almost all problems were solved with violence. Thedas is in a dark age.

true the concept at the time was non existant but the level of violence is astounding lol

[Hellion Rex]

They also have the concept of peaceful (and more important, successful) protest. That's something.

Lol, I love that first story. That's hilarious to me.

[Medhia_Nox]

That's actually a beautiful example of civil resistance which gained actual results.

 

Pity modern mages on Thedas aren't so educated as their predecessors.

[Lulupab]

@Lulupad: Don't you want to free the mages? Civil rights isn't a "dark age" mentality.

It depends really on what "terrorism" means - but no, I actually do not believe local lords actively terrorized their people randomly to keep them in check. Nor do I believe one warlord would specifically target the innocent peasants of another simply to cause terror among his populace.

Raiding, marauding, conquest - yes, they all cause "terror" - but I think "terrorism" is a very specific type of thing with a very specific purpose.

In fact - peasants were property to medieval lords. Harming one was a huge insult, and taking care of them was actually high on many local lords lists (as you don't just let your property go to waste do you?)
This notion that medieval peasants lived in 24/7 fear is not historically accurate.

There is obviously difference between "terror" as in fear and "terrorism" invented by western world. So I was't not talking about fear at all, but 'the use of violence in the pursuit of political aims.' This pretty much didn't exist as a concept in dark ages or it was too little to be of notice. You think a king would step down if someone threatened his peasants?

They also have the concept of peaceful (and more important, successful) protest. That's something.

That is indeed something, but the effort it took to make those things reality kinda speaks volumes. Also those changes that came peacefully can be taken away in an instant, like disbanding of college of enchanters.

That's actually a beautiful example of civil resistance which gained actual results.

Pity modern mages on Thedas aren't so educated as their predecessors.

It took almost a century for mages to achieve that and Lambert took that away in seconds. If the mages who achieved it could be resurrected I'm sure they would have a few words with Templars.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Lulupad:  Lambert was no ally, and he was a dangerous force that needed to be opposed by all mages and when I say "opposed" I do not instantly speak of violence.

 

But Adrian is the enemy.  Adrian manipulated a war.  Adrian will be captured and made Tranquil in my Inquisition - and I want my mage inquisitor to put the brand on her forehead personally.

[Mistic]

That is indeed something, but the effort it took to make those things reality kinda speaks volumes. Also those changes that came peacefully can be taken away in an instant, like disbanding of college of enchanters.

It took almost a century for mages to achieve that and Lambert took that away in seconds. If the mages who achieved it could be resurrected I'm sure they would have a few words with Templars.

 

But you talk as if what has been earned through violence can't be taken away with the same ease as what has been earned in a peaceful way. I'm sure all those warlords that ruled Starkhaven before the Vaels would have appreciated it if that were the case.

[The Elder King]

@Medhia_Nox: will you do this even if your character won't know Adrian's role in the war?