3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

But you talk as if what has been earned through violence can't be taken away with the same ease as what has been earned in a peaceful way. I'm sure all those warlords that ruled Starkhaven before the Vaels would have appreciated it if that were the case.

That depends on what has been achieved by violence. For example a government formed after a revolution usually lasts a very long time and people fight to protect it because they died for making it a reality. In Thedas its ultimately overlords who decide to end or start treaties. Therefore violence in Thedas in a much long lasting tool to bring change than peaceful treaties, Because if you make treaties with a king there is no telling what his son will do with it. Obviously this is not the case in real world.

Its a sad truth but its the truth nonetheless.

[LobselVith8]

That's actually a beautiful example of civil resistance which gained actual results.

 

Pity modern mages on Thedas aren't so educated as their predecessors.

 

It lead to Circle Towers where the Chantry and the templars had power over mages; it's been the status quo for nearly a millennia, and it's the crux of what people have argued about in Thedas and in these threads for years.

[Hellion Rex]

It lead to Circle Towers where the Chantry and the templars had power over mages; it's been the status quo for nearly a millennia, and it's the crux of what people have argued about in Thedas and in these threads for years.

It was still a major step up from being glorified candle lighters.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

@Medhia_Nox: will you do this even if your character won't know Adrian's role in the war?

I get the feeling she won't be able to shut up about at least the very basics of it. Enough to know that she supported the war. (Though she'll probably have the sense to keep her mouth shut about the very worst of it.)

[Willowhugger]

Except the concept of Terrorism didn't exit in dark ages and almost all problems were solved with violence. Thedas is in a dark age.

 

The Thirty-Years War received massive condemnation for the activities of the armies and lead to many reforms.

 

In Henry V, they had people hung for looting the battlefield.

And sacking a city was only a threat if a group refused to surrender.

 

Terrorism can be justified by people.

So can my Hawke and Warden's views on mages who do it.

"Hang em."

[Willowhugger]

It lead to Circle Towers where the Chantry and the templars had power over mages; it's been the status quo for nearly a millennia, and it's the crux of what people have argued about in Thedas and in these threads for years.

 

Actually, it's implied the Circles were much worse at the start.

The rights of Mages improved every time there was a Blight.

 

So they had to start low and get better(er) for them to reach the point in Origins.

[Mistic]

That depends on what has been achieved by violence. For example a government formed after a revolution usually lasts a very long time and people fight to protect it because they died for making it a reality. In Thedas its ultimately overlords who decide to end or start treaties. Therefore violence in Thedas in a much long lasting tool to bring change than peaceful treaties, Because if you make treaties with a king there is no telling what his son will do with it. Obviously this is not the case in real world.

Its a sad truth but its the truth nonetheless.

 

Mm? What? A government formed after a revolution can endure as much as any other government. Yes, that includes very, very short governments. I'm sure that the National Convention, the Directory and Napoleon would have appreciated your position as much as the Starkhaven warlords I mentioned before. Oh, and the Directorate in Russia too.

 

That changes are more permanent or not depends on the context, not on a general rule about the method. In the case of the Vaels and the Circles, it worked for generations. Not to talk about the Nevarran Accords or the Llomerryn Accords, diplomacy at its finest. That they can be brought down sooner or later is a feature that they share with any other kind of change, peaceful or not.

[Hellion Rex]

I get the feeling she won't be able to shut up about at least the very basics of it. Enough to know that she supported the war. (Though she'll probably have the sense to keep her mouth shut about the very worst of it.)

I think this is one situation where meta knowledge is gonna rear it's head for my characters due to my...intense dislike for Adrian.

[raging_monkey]

I think this is one situation where meta knowledge is gonna rear it's head for my characters due to my...intense dislike for Adrian.

do what i do... pretend you never heard... hope it works for me

[Ajna]

I've never gone into a game looking forward to getting revenge on certain chatacters....until Lambert (if he's still alive) and Adrian...I'm pro mage, but what she did to Rhys? Hell no.

[HiroVoid]

I still hope that the characters that survive the blast in DA:I (In other words, aren't there) from Asunder is Adrian and Lambert.  I just feel they have the most story to contribute.

[The Elder King]

I get the feeling she won't be able to shut up about at least the very basics of it. Enough to know that she supported the war. (Though she'll probably have the sense to keep her mouth shut about the very worst of it.)

 
I was mostly referring to her direct involvment that lead to the breakout in my post, which, as you said, I don't think she'll share. 

I think this is one situation where meta knowledge is gonna rear it's head for my characters due to my...intense dislike for Adrian.

I probably won't, for my canon. Though there might be other actions that'd lead me to punish her. Or she might be already dead.

[The Elder King]

I still hope that the characters that survive the blast in DA:I (In other words, aren't there) from Asunder is Adrian and Lambert.  I just feel they have the most story to contribute.

I don't think Lambert will be there regardless of his fate at the end of Asunder.

[Hellion Rex]

But Adrian is the enemy.  Adrian manipulated a war.  Adrian will be captured and made Tranquil in my Inquisition - and I want my mage inquisitor to put the brand on her forehead personally.

PREACH. HALLELUJAH. AMEN!

[LobselVith8]

It was still a major step up from being glorified candle lighters.

 

Which doesn't change all the problems inherent with the Chantry controlled Circles, and how the mages were living under the rule of the Chantry and their templars, with moderates like Wynne arguing that the Chantry would rather kill all the mages than see them free (in the City of Amaranthine, when she tells the Warden-Commander why she opposes the vote for the Circles to break free from the Chantry).

 

Clearly, it's a contested issue, and I'm certain people will disagree, but I don't think a peaceful solution was viable for the Circles. I agree with Bioware's Michael Hamilton's view of the Circle situation:

 

Since when has any dictatorship ever been turned over by asking politely?

 

Really think about what you're saying.

 

"I asked and they said no!"

 

 

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I don't think asking politely would change anything. It's been almost a thousand years already; it's been long enough for the status quo.

 

I think this is one situation where meta knowledge is gonna rear it's head for my characters due to my...intense dislike for Adrian.

 

I take it you must really hate the companions who did even more horrible things than Adrian did?

[Icy Magebane]

I think this is one situation where meta knowledge is gonna rear it's head for my characters due to my...intense dislike for Adrian.

I'm giving everyone a clean slate no matter what.  For me, every decision must be made from the Inquisitor's point of view, or else I may as well just not roleplay at all...  There are a few returning characters that I did not like in the past, but until they do something my new protagonist finds questionable, I won't be acting on those feelings.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm giving everyone a clean slate no matter what.  For me, every decision must be made from the Inquisitor's point of view, or else I may as well just not roleplay at all...  There are a few returning characters that I did not like in the past, but until they do something my new protagonist finds questionable, I won't be acting on those feelings.

Whether or not metagaming and roleplaying lead to the same place, I suppose, depends on how she acts as a prisoner. Keeping an unwilling mage captive is difficult and dangerous, whether or not you have an army of ex-Templars.

[Icy Magebane]

Whether or not metagaming and roleplaying lead to the same place, I suppose, depends on how she acts as a prisoner. Keeping an unwilling mage captive is difficult and dangerous, whether or not you have an army of ex-Templars.

Is it even mandatory that we capture this person?  What if the Inquisitor I'm playing as doesn't wish to see her imprisoned, even if I do?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Is it even mandatory that we capture this person?  What if the Inquisitor I'm playing as doesn't wish to see her imprisoned, even if I do?

I hope it isn't. For subsequent playthroughs if not for my first.

[Hellion Rex]

Which doesn't change all the problems inherent with the Chantry controlled Circles, and how the mages were living under the rule of the Chantry and their templars, with moderates like Wynne arguing that the Chantry would rather kill all the mages than see them free (in the City of Amaranthine, when she tells the Warden-Commander why she opposes the vote for the Circles to break free from the Chantry).

 

Oh, I agree. I was just saying that this arrangement, at the time, was better than what the mages had previously.

 

 

I take it you must really hate the companions who did even more horrible things than Adrian did?

You know, it's interesting. You are not the first to ask me that. And the thing is that I still love Isabela's character despite the fact that she murdered slaves and stole the Tome. And, at least in her case, she showed remorse and came back with the book.

 

For me, Adrian's betrayal hit home personally for me, a lot more so than anything the other companions did. On top of that, because she forced both Wynne and Lambert's hand, she fired the opening salvo for the war. The people slaughtered in the White Spire are because she had to force the blame onto Rhys for Pharamond's death.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Elder King:  The answer to that - is no. 

 

If they present Adrian like they always have - she certainly will have to get to the back of the line and shut her mouth.  I have no time for reactionary warmongers.  

 

And honestly, that's as far as it'll probably end up being taken (if addressed at all).  When the mages end their conflict, the ringleaders will be judged according to the severity of their crimes - that they will curse me as a traitor to "our people" means nothing to me. 

 

That she murdered an imprisoned mage and framed her friend to ignite a war is probably something my Inquisitor will never know about, but if he does find out... it will be very satisfying to offer her Tranquility to "pay" for her crimes in service with the promise of death after her sentence is served. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That she murdered an imprisoned mage and framed her friend to ignite a war is probably something my Inquisitor will never know about, but if he does find out... it will be very satisfying to offer her Tranquility to "pay" for her crimes in service with the promise of death after her sentence is served. 

That strikes me as excessive. Not to mention that it's a bit complicated for something you can choose in a video game.

[Hellion Rex]

 

And honestly, that's as far as it'll probably end up being taken (if addressed at all).  When the mages end their conflict, the ringleaders will be judged according to the severity of their crimes - that they will curse me as a traitor to "our people" means nothing to me.

At this point, depending on how long the war has been going on by the time DAI starts, I don't think that some would even view you as a traitor. I can see many just desiring to bring the fighting to an end.

 

Although, I do feel similarly. I don't care if the mages disagree with my beliefs, I don't care if they disavow me as being "one of them". I'll bring order back to the world, no matter what form that takes.

[Ryzaki]

At this point, depending on how long the war has been going on by the time DAI starts, I don't think that some would even view you as a traitor. I can see many just desiring to bring the fighting to an end.

 

Although, I do feel similarly. I don't care if the mages disagree with my beliefs, I don't care if they disavow me as being "one of them". I'll bring order back to the world, no matter what form that takes.

 

lol my mages thoughts exactly.