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[The Elder King]

Technically, Gorguz's argument was that a competent Inquisitor would side with the templars, not that an Inquisitor would side with either group based on their competency.

But his choice was made about templars being more competent, in his opinion. I do think that he's wrong in believing that templars are surely more useful or competent then mages, so that a PC who chooses the mages isn't incompetent, but it's just his opinion. There are people who said that will pick mages because they're obviously better then templars. I can't change that.
If one thinks that mages and templars are equally useful so he might consider other reasons to pick a side, but there'll be people who will choose based on what they think it's the better side based on their competency.

[Mistic]

The templars fighting the mages in the hinterlands aren't, as far as we know, red templars. They seem to be different factions.

 

Fair enough, but the initial argument was about mages being too vulnerable to demons. Those mages in the hinterlands aren't, as far as we know, abominations either. If the possibility of temptation might make some a liability, the same possibility should be applied to the others.

 

But it wasn't a serious argument from my part, just highlighting that any group has its advantages and its drawbacks.

[raging_monkey]

They had a good line in Babylon Five."To peace?""No, to victory." Which is the cold hard fact of any soldier.

i was trying to snake from the MGS series lol failed horribly

[Master Warder Z_]

Fair enough, but the initial argument was about mages being too vulnerable to demons. Those mages in the hinterlands aren't, as far as we know, abominations either. If the possibility of temptation might make some a liability, the same possibility should be applied to the others.

 

But it wasn't a serious argument from my part, just highlighting that any group has its advantages and its drawbacks.

 

If the argument was that the Templar Order was entirely made up by red lyrium users you might have a point.

 

But as we have learned repeatedly, that isn't the case.

[Mistic]

If the argument was that the Templar Order was entirely made up by red lyrium users you might have a point.

 

But as we have learned repeatedly, that isn't the case.

 

Given that the Circle of Magi isn't entirely made up by demons or abominations either, I think the point still stands. After all, I didn't say that all Templars will become red lyrium users, just that the temptation is there, just like mages and demons. That was the point.

 

Neither Templars nor Mages are doomed to fall into temptation (nor are free from it happening, of course).

[Ajna]

Cole and Leliana both know what happened in Asunder..that being the case, so could we. I know a lot of people don't like Wynne, but I do..and it's thanks to Adrian that she's dead. I personally would opt to give her to Shale if I could...

I can't keep up with this thread, I have to sleep and work and stuff...

[The Elder King]

Cole and Leliana both know what happened in Asunder..that being the case, so could we. I know a lot of people don't like Wynne, but I do..and it's thanks to Adrian that she's dead. I personally would opt to give her to Shale if I could...
I can't keep up with this thread, I have to sleep and work and stuff...

I wasn't referring to the events in general (which Adrian didn't seem to have a big role). I'm referring to the fact that she killed Pharamond and framed Rhys about it, which neither Cole or Leliana know. Rhys is the only one who knows, and he might be dead.

[Xilizhra]

Cole and Leliana both know what happened in Asunder..that being the case, so could we. I know a lot of people don't like Wynne, but I do..and it's thanks to Adrian that she's dead. I personally would opt to give her to Shale if I could...

I can't keep up with this thread, I have to sleep and work and stuff...

Wynne was already dead. At least the spirit found someone else to inhabit before Wynne's clock ran out.

 

Also, gruesome revenge fantasies will always squick me.

[Iakus]

I am generally sympathetic to the mages.  But the Templars have some valid concerns.  And mages like Adrien, Anders, and Fiona only make those concerns feel more valid

[dekarserverbot]

4 words:

 

ANDERS TO THE RESCUE!

 

that resumes in mages

 

Oh and that fat bastard imposter that appeared in DA2 doesn't counts, he is NOT ANDERS

[Xilizhra]

I am generally sympathetic to the mages.  But the Templars have some valid concerns.  And mages like Adrien, Anders, and Fiona only make those concerns feel more valid

The Chantry sowed the wind, and the three mages you mention are the whirlwind.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Xilizhra:  Wrong - in my Inquistion - "I'm" the whirlwind and those three had best pray they died in the blast. 

 

In your Inquisition - you can worship them all you wish.

[Xilizhra]

@Xilizhra:  Wrong - in my Inquistion - "I'm" the whirlwind and those three had best pray they died in the blast. 

 

In your Inquisition - you can worship them all you wish.

So far as I can tell, you can't crush both the templars and mages; you'll have to pick one to elevate to your side.

[Medhia_Nox]

If Rhys, or another genuinely moderate individual who doesn't want war, is in charge of the mages by the time I make my decision - I'll consider the mages.

 

If Adrian and Fiona are still championing violence... then the mages can consider themselves crushed (and I have this weird passion for being called "Traitor" but it really has more to do with how much I dislike these characters.)

 

Lambert is already gone - if I can get someone like Evangeline to lead the Templars, then awesome.

 

My mage Inquistor has loyalty to the closing of the Breach - not violent revolutionaries and extremist oppressors.

[Xilizhra]

If Rhys, or another genuinely moderate individual who doesn't want war, is in charge of the mages by the time I make my decision - I'll consider the mages.

 

If Adrian and Fiona are still championing violence... then the mages can consider themselves crushed (and I have this weird passion for being called "Traitor" but it really has more to do with how much I dislike these characters.)

 

Lambert is already gone - if I can get someone like Evangeline to lead the Templars, then awesome.

 

My mage Inquistor has loyalty to the closing of the Breach - not violent revolutionaries and extremist oppressors.

Sometimes, treachery is the only way to maintain integrity.

 

Also, there's the small fact of the mages not starting the war because the Chantry didn't attack them for leaving; the templars attacked them after seceding from the Chantry themselves. So yeah.

[The Elder King]

So far as I can tell, you can't crush both the templars and mages; you'll have to pick one to elevate to your side.

It's possible that you might help one mage leader taking the lead over the others.
Though it's possible as well that Fiona, Rhys and Adrian all died in the blast.

[raging_monkey]

Sometimes, treachery is the only way to maintain integrity. Also, there's the small fact of the mages not starting the war because the Chantry didn't attack them for leaving; the templars attacked them after seceding from the Chantry themselves. So yeah.

that makes no sense explain your veiws of integrity and treachery

[Xilizhra]

that makes no sense explain your veiws of integrity and treachery

For instance, Thrask's betrayal of the Templar Order was the morally correct option, in my opinion, even if it was badly implemented. If you've chosen a poor allegiance, disloyalty will be necessary by definition, and treachery is a frequently useful option.

[The Hierophant]

Sometimes, treachery is the only way to maintain integrity.
 
Also, there's the small fact of the mages not starting the war because the Chantry didn't attack them for leaving; the templars attacked them after seceding from the Chantry themselves. So yeah.

I thought the conflict started when the newly freed mages annihilated their Templar captors at the White Spire?

[Xilizhra]

I thought the conflict started when the newly freed mages annihilated their Templar captors at the White Spire?

Nope. The templars were still part of the Chantry at that point, so it would have been an act of war against the Chantry, had the Chantry chosen to pursue it. They didn't. The templars made themselves into a new polity.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Hierophant:  Or how about when Adrian killed an innocent mage and framed her long time friend to incite violence?  Maybe there... not sure.  But I'm sure she has "Good Reasons TM"

[Iakus]

The Chantry sowed the wind, and the three mages you mention are the whirlwind.

The three I mentioned are exactly the kind of mages the Templars were meant to protect muggles from.  They give the truly deserving mages who suffer from draconian Circle rules a bad name

[raging_monkey]

For instance, Thrask's betrayal of the Templar Order was the morally correct option, in my opinion, even if it was badly implemented. If you've chosen a poor allegiance, disloyalty will be necessary by definition, and treachery is a frequently useful option.

not sure i agree but an interesting veiwpoint