The three I mentioned are exactly the kind of mages the Templars were meant to protect muggles from. They give the truly deserving mages who suffer from draconian Circle rules a bad name
None of them ever did anything to muggles who weren't threatening them or institutions they weren't already in a state of undeclared war with.
@monkey: Do you ever actually "rage"? Cause you're maddeningly temperate and level headed...
I CAN'T TAKE IT!
@Xilizhra: SO.... Rhys and Wynne were "threats" yeah? That makes me ten times more solid in my convictions to Tranquilize all three.
not sure i agree but an interesting veiwpoint
Thanks. I see loyalty as a virtue only when the cause is a good one.
We are going to fight against demons, so in this very particular case, templars are a more valuable ally. In any other circumstance mages are the best choice, but now demonic sh+t is hitting the fan and I'm going to need templars to clean it up.
@Gorguz: LOL I want my Inquisitor to say that.
"Right now? Right now some really demonic sh-t is hitting the fan, and I'm going to need Templars to clean it up!"
We are going to fight against demons, so in this very particular case, templars are a more valuable ally. In any other circumstance mages are the best choice, but now demonic sh+t is hitting the fan and I'm going to need templars to clean it up.
How many mages escaped the demonic assault in Broken Circle? Several.
How many templars did? None.
@Xilizhra: Except all the ones holding the demons in the Circle tower at the base...
As for "several" mages... if you mean like... twenty out of the whole tower, then yeah.. I "guess" several.
*adopts kreai's voice from kotor 2* ah but deciedes who is good and evil all are POVs my friendThanks. I see loyalty as a virtue only when the cause is a good one.
when i was younger yes flinging poo everywhere , and being a hedonistic little monkey@monkey: Do you ever actually "rage"? Cause you're maddeningly temperate and level headed...I CAN'T TAKE IT! @Xilizhra: SO.... Rhys and Wynne were "threats" yeah? That makes me ten times more solid in my convictions to Tranquilize all three.
How many mages escaped the demonic assault in Broken Circle? Several.
How many templars did? None.
@Xilizhra: Except all the ones holding the demons in the Circle tower at the base...
As for "several" mages... if you mean like... twenty out of the whole tower, then yeah.. I "guess" several.
If you prefer "survived within the greater tower despite the demonic attacks," that will also suffice.
With escape, do you mean the mages behind Wynne's barrier?
Yes, but also the one hiding in the closet, the various blood mages (demons were attacking them, they weren't on the same side), and perhaps others I'm forgetting about.
How many mages escaped the demonic assault in Broken Circle? Several.
How many templars did? None.
Right. None except the large group waiting outside the main doors for reinforcement to arrive...
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
I pray that this quest line gets handled with New Vegas levels of nuance. Not only picking sides, but also supporting different sub-factions and leaders. If anything deserves this much attention in the series thus far it's this. It's been built up for two games now.
I pray that this quest line gets handled with New Vegas levels of nuance. Not only picking sides, but also supporting different sub-factions and leaders. If anything deserves this much attention in the series thus far it's this. It's been built up for two games now.
You're dreaming. New Vegas was cutting edge... by comparison, we have DA:O and DA2, which were good games but not particularly complex ones. This franchise is very dedicated to taking us along linear plotlines with little variation along the way. When there is variation, it takes the form of small changes in dialogues or cutscenes that are easy to work into the game without deviating too far from the basic storyline. And I can't even imagine us dealing with four opposing factions at once... that would lead to a lot of variables. Probably more than Bioware would ever be comfortable with addressing. I don't think Bioware is going to give us anything near the level of depth that was in NV, but I guess optimism isn't necessarily a bad thing. It would certainly be nice to see, even though I don't expect it.
Thanks for the clarification.If you prefer "survived within the greater tower despite the demonic attacks," that will also suffice.
Yes, but also the one hiding in the closet, the various blood mages (demons were attacking them, they weren't on the same side), and perhaps others I'm forgetting about.
Nope. The templars were still part of the Chantry at that point, so it would have been an act of war against the Chantry, had the Chantry chosen to pursue it. They didn't. The templars made themselves into a new polity.
Thanks for the clarification.
Though as others said, the templars with Gregoir escaped as well.
I wouldn't call that a test of their power to the same degree, especially when you compare a preexisting door that they hid behind with an ad hoc barrier the mages used.
Wouldn't the Divine green-lighting a raid against the Templars behind Lambert's back already suggest that the org was considered by the Chantry as a new polity at that point in time?
No, it's an intelligence op against a military force that was taking numerous unauthorized actions; bad, but by no means something that creates a separate polity.
How many mages escaped the demonic assault in Broken Circle? Several.
How many templars did? None.
Are you sure that those mages are not abominations? I'm not. I help them anyway, they are more useful than templars, but Cullen has his reasons to fear demoni influence in the circle.
None of them ever did anything to muggles who weren't threatening them or institutions they weren't already in a state of undeclared war with.
They murder or are perfectly willing to murder unarmed civilians to prove a point. They're no better than the Templars who abuse thier authority on their mage charges.
They murder or are perfectly willing to murder unarmed civilians to prove a point. They're no better than the Templars who abuse thier authority on their mage charges.
What, civilians who were outright attacking them with improvised weapons, at least in Adrian's case?
just like not all magi and templars are bad.not all civi's are badWhat, civilians who were outright attacking them with improvised weapons, at least in Adrian's case?
I wouldn't call that a test of their power to the same degree, especially when you compare a preexisting door that they hid behind with an ad hoc barrier the mages used.
That's something no templar can do. It's like praising an Hawk to fly compared to a wolf.
Exactly. The issue we were discussing is whether mages are more useful to fight demons than templars are; to continue the analogy, the hawk's flight could prove invaluable.
I am generally sympathetic to the mages. But the Templars have some valid concerns. And mages like Adrien, Anders, and Fiona only make those concerns feel more valid
I understand the debate over Adrian and Anders, but Fiona? Fiona's support for Circle autonomy from an institution she morally disagreed with and her endorsement for a democratic vote to separate from the Chantry doesn't really endorse the view that magic is dangerous, simply that she holds an ideological opposition to what the Chantry espouses in placing the mages under Chantry control in the name of religion. She's also not alone in her views, even outside the Libertarian camp. In fact, Wynne admits (in the City of Amaranthine) she only opposes breaking away because the Chantry would kill all the mages otherwise, and even a moderate like Irving is greatly enthusiastic at the prospect of an independent Circle when the Hero of Ferelden asks for the Circle to be given it's autonomy from the Chantry, profusely thanking the Hero of Ferelden for freeing the mages from "their shackles".
I wouldn't call that a test of their power to the same degree, especially when you compare a preexisting door that they hid behind with an ad hoc barrier the mages used.
Considering the sheer number of abominations (read: demon possessed mages) inside the tower, I'm not particularly impressed by the relatively small number of survivors that managed to hide long enough for the Warden to save or execute them. The fact that Uldred was even able to create that much chaos in the first place doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence in the mages' ability to battle demons. They were on their home turf and completely outnumbered the blood mages when this started, yet were nearly wiped out, even with the aid of the Templars... even the senior enchanters all wound up dead or possessed except for Wynne and Irving, and the latter was captured in spite of being the most powerful person in the tower.
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