@Xilizhra: Are you going to require me to quote pages 136 - 138 of Asunder or just trust me that you're memory of those peasants is wrong.
As for Fiona - allowing Adrian to be a toady is worrisome. I'd believe her to allow Adrian to do what she does so that she can deny culpability.
What, civilians who were outright attacking them with improvised weapons, at least in Adrian's case?
Nope, they weren't attacking her.
In fact, Evangeline had to restrain her.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Considering the sheer number of abominations (read: demon possessed mages) inside the tower, I'm not particularly impressed by the relatively small number of survivors that managed to hide long enough for the Warden to save or execute them. The fact that Uldred was even able to create that much chaos in the first place doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence in the mages' ability to battle demons. They were on their home turf and completely outnumbered the blood mages when this started, yet were nearly wiped out, even with the aid of the Templars... even the senior enchanters all wound up dead or possessed except for Wynne and Irving, and the latter was captured in spite of being the most powerful person in the tower.
To be fair Uldred was a Pride Abomination. Not a walk in the park for anyone that isn't a player character.
Nope, they weren't attacking her.
In fact, Evangeline had to restrain her.
Reading it now... they were attacking, it seems to me.
Not if you need something more resilient. Some might prefer to recruit for the Inquisitor an army of armored warriors that at the same time can block the venatori's magic.Exactly. The issue we were discussing is whether mages are more useful to fight demons than templars are; to continue the analogy, the hawk's flight could prove invaluable.
@Icy Magebane: I think it's also important to remember that this was an ambush. Mages and apprentices could have been sleeping, studying or socializing.. anything but preparing for a demonic invasion to a place that's been safe for their entire lives.
That being said - I agree that most mages are not prepared to fight demons better than Templars.
My Inquisitorial Exorcists will be (headcanon of course) - mages who specialize in anti-magic demon/blood mage/abomination crushing bad assery.
But most mages are just banal flamethrowers like Adrian.
Nope, they weren't attacking her.
In fact, Evangeline had to restrain her.
They halt their attempt to attack the mages (who they think are "cursed" with magic) because Evangeline drew her sword and stopped them. The mob is the reason why Evangeline decides they won't sleep in the inn.
Not if you need something more resilient. Some might prefer to recruit for the Inquisitor an army of armored warriors that at the same time can block the venatori's magic.
Both templars and mages offer different things to the Inquisition. I even thing that we might be 'forced' on take the hinterlands plot because we NEED to recruit either to boost our forces (on this note, Cullen will probably have the command over the mages if recruited).
Well, ****. I'd best watch him closely, then.
I don't think most mages are able to do what Adrian is capable of with fire. Most don't reach that level of mastery regardless of the path they follow.@Icy Magebane: I think it's also important to remember that this was an ambush. Mages and apprentices could have been sleeping, studying or socializing.. anything but preparing for a demonic invasion to a place that's been safe for their entire lives.
That being said - I agree that most mages are not prepared to fight demons better than Templars.
My Inquisitorial Exorcists will be (headcanon of course) - mages who specialize in anti-magic demon/blood mage/abomination crushing bad assery.
But most mages are just banal flamethrowers like Adrian.
But most mages are just banal flamethrowers like Adrian.
That said, she is damn good with fire. Granted, she could probably be even better if she'd learn some finesse.
"You robes seem pretty satisfied with yourselves."
The new voice was gruff, and cut through the merriment instantly. Adrian stopped laughing and stared. Evangeline turned in her seat to see a huge, burly man looming beside their table. His beard grew out of his chin like some wild, black bush, and his arms were thick like tree trunks. This was a man hewn from wood, probably one of the local freeholders or one of their workers. Indignant rage smoldered in his eyes like fire."
===
He slams his fist on the table - TRUE
Then Adrian calls him an "ignorant lout" - TRUE
Then he calls her out on her magic - "You think your magic impresses me? Impresses anyone?" - TRUE
AND THEN... Adrian calls "blue flame" to her hand and says: "I don't know," she said, her tone low and dark. "We can be very impressive." - TRUE
====
SO... who had weapons?
"You robes seem pretty satisfied with yourselves."
The new voice was gruff, and cut through the merriment instantly. Adrian stopped laughing and stared. Evangeline turned in her seat to see a huge, burly man looming beside their table. His beard grew out of his chin like some wild, black bush, and his arms were thick like tree trunks. This was a man hewn from wood, probably one of the local freeholders or one of their workers. Indignant rage smoldered in his eyes like fire."
===
He slams his fist on the table - TRUE
Then Adrian calls him an "ignorant lout" - TRUE
Then he calls her out on her magic - "You think your magic impresses me? Impresses anyone?" - TRUE
AND THEN... Adrian calls "blue flame" to her hand and says: "I don't know," she said, her tone low and dark. "We can be very impressive." - TRUE
====
SO... who had weapons?
Neither. One was just a naturally better fighter. I did misremember things slightly, because I thought he had a broken bottle.
I honestly doubt he's going to kill or torture mages.Well, ****. I'd best watch him closely, then.
@Xilizhra: Blue flame isn't a weapon eh?
You're capacity for twisting things to how you need them to be to believe what you need is fascinating. Like... supervillain level fascinating.
How? The Divine had to secretly okay an assault against the Chantry's own military wing. If the Templars weren't a rogue organization by that point in time then wouldn't a simple command from the Divine suffice?No, it's an intelligence op against a military force that was taking numerous unauthorized actions; bad, but by no means something that creates a separate polity.
@Xilizhra: Blue flame isn't a weapon eh?
You're capacity for twisting things to how you need them to be to believe what you need is fascinating. Like... supervillain level fascinating.
Well, answering your rhetorical question the way you obviously wanted it to be answered would just be silly.
Anyway. Both were threatening and readying themselves, but only the man made an actual move.
Not if you need something more resilient. Some might prefer to recruit for the Inquisitor an army of armored warriors that at the same time can block the venatori's magic.
Both templars and mages offer different things to the Inquisition. I even thing that we might be 'forced' on take the hinterlands plot because we NEED to recruit either to boost our forces (on this note, Cullen will probably have the command over the mages if recruited).
I highly doubt it. Cullen is a military adviser. The suggestion that he would act as some sort of Knight-Commander or Knight-Vigilant over the mages would detract from what he's supposed to be doing as one of our primary advisers. It would also make the entire point in choosing a side pointless if we're simply reinforcing the status quo by having mages watched over and governed by templars no matter what choice we make.
How? The Divine had to secretly okay an assault against the Chantry's own military wing. If the Templar's weren't a rogue organization by that point in time then wouldn't a simple command from the Divine suffice?
Regardless of whether the templar command was listening or not, they were still part of the Chantry officially, which didn't stop happening until the Nevarran Accord was dissolved; that hadn't happened at that point in time.
@Xilizhra: What was rhetorical about my question?
She had blue flame.. he had, fists.
Who was "readying" themselves? Should I continue quoting? Cause the man never raises his fists to "ready himself".
Edit: I stand corrected. "He made as if to charge her..."
Regardless of whether the templar command was listening or not, they were still part of the Chantry officially, which didn't stop happening until the Nevarran Accord was dissolved; that hadn't happened at that point in time.
Continue quoting.@Xilizhra: What was rhetorical about my question?
She had blue flame.. he had, fists.
Who was "readying" themselves? Should I continue quoting? Cause the man never raises his fists to "ready himself".
I understand the debate over Adrian and Anders, but Fiona? Fiona's support for Circle autonomy from an institution she morally disagreed with and her endorsement for a democratic vote to separate from the Chantry doesn't really endorse the view that magic is dangerous, simply that she holds an ideological opposition to what the Chantry espouses in placing the mages under Chantry control in the name of religion. She's also not alone in her views, even outside the Libertarian camp. In fact, Wynne admits (in the City of Amaranthine) she only opposes breaking away because the Chantry would kill all the mages otherwise, and even a moderate like Irving is greatly enthusiastic at the prospect of an independent Circle when the Hero of Ferelden asks for the Circle to be given it's autonomy from the Chantry, profusely thanking the Hero of Ferelden for freeing the mages from "their shackles".
Fiona maneuvered the Conclave into trying to vote for independance which was expressley not its purpose. Her power-play, and belligerent attitude only further inflamed an already tense situation, which led to the deaths of a number of First Enchanters and senior enchanters.
There's a time and place for every battle. Fiona would rather die in a hopeless cause and take everyone around her down with her than wait for the right moment to act.
I highly doubt it. Cullen is a military adviser. The suggestion that he would act as some sort of Knight-Commander or Knight-Vigilant over the mages would detract from what he's supposed to be doing as one of our primary advisers. It would also make the entire point in choosing a side pointless if we're simply reinforcing the status quo by having mages watched over and governed by templars no matter what choice we make.
Why do you say that? The mages would be used primarily as soldiers and military support, wouldn't they? So they're within his purview.
I highly doubt it. Cullen is a military adviser. The suggestion that he would act as some sort of Knight-Commander or Knight-Vigilant over the mages would detract from what he's supposed to be doing as one of our primary advisers. It would also make the entire point in choosing a side pointless if we're simply reinforcing the status quo by having mages watched over and governed by templars no matter what choice we make.
Your bias is clouding your viewpoint.
Think less 'Templar' and more 'Commanding Officer'. Unless you don't think the Mages will be considered part of the Inquisition's military forces?
Fiona maneuvered the Conclave into trying to vote for independance which was expressley not its purpose. Her power-play, and belligerent attitude only further inflamed an already tense situation, which led to the deaths of a number of First Enchanters and senior enchanters.
There's a time and place for every battle. Fiona would rather die in a hopeless cause and take everyone around her down with her than wait for the right moment to act.
What would be a better moment? When could another conclave come?
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