3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Me personally I'm pro Templar as I believe in Order and the control of dangerous forces.

 

As I'm going to be playing a Dalish Elf my character will likely sympathize with the Mages. 

[Icy Magebane]

If I remember correctly it was described as Mages are brighter in the Fade and so attacked spirits and demons more that mundane. 

Which doesn't mean they are invisible to fade creatures just not as attractive. So it isn't impossible for a demon to use a mundane to get into the world, which would be easier because they don't think they can be possessed and wouldn't know how to protect themselves.

If this were true then somebody would have noticed it over the past couple thousand years... nearly everything in the lore is based upon how mages and mundanes interact with the Fade.  Let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments...

[TTTX]

One year of solitary doesn't really come close to half a lifetime of being someones sex slave/bodyguard/assassin/gladiator/warrior/generick slave. Yes solitary can be hard on the psyche (it is considered torture in our modern world), but it isn't like Anders was punished unduely and cruely. He had attempted to escape SEVEN times before, and only after the seventh attempt, did they actually severely punish him... Anders had it pretty good actually.. Comparatively..

When we meet Fenris for the first time he doesn't remember much other then the between receiving his markings and when we meet him.

Also Solitary isn't a kind punishment, it can drive you crazy, much like a Hermit spending to much in the woods.

 

 

Make that everyone except the Tevinters' slaves and I'm on board.

Tevinter slaves can also be mages. just saying.

[Master Warder Z_]

Let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments...

 

Agreed.

[Roses]

I am pro Mages, but I must admit I didn't even remotely like the **** that erupted when I sided with poor, oh so helpless Mages in DA2.
I like Anders' propaganda of a world where nobody has to fear no one and I'm for tolerance in general so Mages was a natural choice. Besides, Meredith doesn't prove her point very strongly, aside from throwing assumptions and paranoia around

[TTTX]

I didn't want that garbage attached to my post.

 

Beyond that, that's a joke if i ever heard one.

 

The Qunari? They will never have Thedas.

 

And The Imperium? Its decaying ghost and nothing more.

 

Darkspawn? They have no desires for empire.

The Qunari can only be deafeated with help from the mages and that fleet I can't remember the name of. or else Thedas is pretty screwed.

[Icy Magebane]

Tevinter slaves can also be mages. just saying.

And those mages should be put in Circles.  I'm not in favor of them being killed simply because they are Tevinter mages... slaves aren't the reason why Tevinter needs to burn.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Qunari can only be deafeated 

 

By outnumbering them five hundred to one.

 

That worked very nicely last time

[Master Warder Z_]

Meredith doesn't prove her point very strongly, aside from throwing assumptions and paranoia around

 

Despite nearly a 100% of them turning out to be right?

 

Orsino was corrupt, the circle was infested with blood mages...need i go on?

[TTTX]

If this were true then somebody would have noticed it over the past couple thousand years... nearly everything in the lore is based upon how mages and mundanes interact with the Fade.  Let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments...

Well Demons do notice the non mage people in the fade, one of the demons in the mage origin in DA:O mention them.

[raging_monkey]

The Qunari can only be deafeated with help from the mages and that fleet I can't remember the name of. or else Thedas is pretty screwed.

felissima armada

[Willowhugger]

Despite nearly a 100% of them turning out to be right?

 

Orsino was corrupt, the circle was infested with blood mages...need i go on?

Again, I am a Pro-Mage terrorist.

But Kirkwall is a pit.

 

I wanted the option to let the High Dragon burn it to the ground.

Then salt it.

[Master Warder Z_]

felissima armada

 

I think people tend to leave out three exalted marches, massive slave revolts and thedas just throwing armies at them for two centuries.

 

It isn't as simple as mages won us the war or this fleet defeated a qunari fleet and that won the war.

[Willowhugger]

If this were true then somebody would have noticed it over the past couple thousand years... nearly everything in the lore is based upon how mages and mundanes interact with the Fade.  Let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments...

 

Yeah, earlier in this thread I pointed to all the examples of corpses, plants, animals, and non-mages getting possessed.

 

I point to Ser Drass.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Drass

 

[Icy Magebane]

Well Demons do notice the non mage people in the fade, one of the demons in the mage origin in DA:O mention them.

Demons don't possess "mundanes" without the involvement of mages... blood mages based on DA2.  Without a mage summoning them in some very specific ritual, they don't have the ability to control normal people from the Fade or physically inhabit their bodies.  At best they can use mind control abilities when they actually cross the Veil, as seen with the desire demons in Broken Circle.  The point is that it is not "easier" for non-mages to be possessed by demons... nothing in the lore supports that this is even possible, let alone easy.

 

Yeah, earlier in this thread I pointed to all the examples of corpses, plants, animals, and non-mages getting possessed.

 

I point to Ser Drass.

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Drass

There is obviously a difference between physical inhabitation and mind control... Drass was not an abomination, was he?

[TTTX]

Despite nearly a 100% of them turning out to be right?

 

Orsino was corrupt, the circle was infested with blood mages...need i go on?

Meredith was no saint herself though, she was also very corrupt herself thanks to the idol and even before she got her hands on it since she technically ran the city at the time of act 1 behind the scenes.

 

I miss the option to throw both factions out of the city.

 

By outnumbering them five hundred to one.

 

That worked very nicely last time

The lore says mages was factor in turning the war against the Qunari.

[Willowhugger]

Demons don't possess "mundanes" without the involvement of mages... blood mages based on DA2.  Without a mage summoning them in some very specific ritual, they don't have the ability to control normal people from the Fade or physically inhabit their bodies.  At best they can use mind control abilities when they actually cross the Veil, as seen with the desire demons in Broken Circle.  The point is that it is not "easier" for non-mages to be possessed by demons... nothing in the lore supports that this is even possible, let alone easy.

 

There is obviously a difference between physical inhabitation and mind control... Drass was not an abomination, was he?

 

That's a lot of assumptions being made.

But let's go to the evidence.

*goes to the wiki*

[raging_monkey]

I think tend to leave out three exalted marches, massive slave revolts and thedas just throwing armies at them for two centuries. It isn't as simple as mages won us the war or this fleet defeated a qunari fleet and that won the war.

was giving a answer to give a group a name.
I agree mages arent a sole contributer in war they basically human cannons in those situations

[EmperorSahlertz]

Here we go again. It's not a contest. You can't just tell people their pain is nothing because "omg, I had it worse!" 

It wasn't a punishment really. They thought he will go crazy, make a deal and so then they could've kill him because Greagoir and Irving were decent enough and wouldn't let it happen since Anders passed his harrowing already.

Also, he escaped, but so what? It's not like he was trying to kill someone or even hurt the templars in the process. Escaping was his only crime.

 

You should remember then that Fenris also brought it upon himself. Now I'm not saying that his actions weren't generous or his goal wasn't noble, but it's a fact. 

It isn't about the equal or inequal amount of pain each suffered. It is about wether or not what they went through was justified. EVERYTHING Anders went through, he brought upon himself. He broke the law repeatedly and he faced his punishment. He deserves no sympathy for that. Fenris lived as a slave for most of his life. He was born a slave, lived as a slave, and remained a slave even after he won the competition. He did not choose to be a slave. Anders CHOSE to break the law. Before the year in solitary Anders lead a life vastly superior to anything Fenris could ever aspire to.

[Master Warder Z_]

The lore says mages was factor in turning the war against the Qunari.

 

Uh where?

 

I don't recall that in any codex or WOT.

[Br3admax]

Meredith was no saint herself though, she was also very corrupt herself thanks to the idol and even before she got her hands on it since she technically ran the city at the time of act 1 behind the scenes.

 

Not really corrupt, since she was given that power. She shouldn't need an excuse to fulfill her role. 

 

I miss the option to throw both factions out of the city.

 

The lore says mages was factor in turning the war against the Qunari.

 

You can't throw factors of life out of a city. And yes, mages helped turned the tide. Mostly because the qunari were using magic before. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well Demons do notice the non mage people in the fade, one of the demons in the mage origin in DA:O mention them.

They notice them, but they have no desire to possess them, and see them merely as oddities at best, and objects of the Fade at worst.

[TTTX]

Demons don't possess "mundanes" without the involvement of mages... blood mages based on DA2.  Without a mage summoning them in some very specific ritual, they don't have the ability to control normal people from the Fade or physically inhabit their bodies.  At best they can use mind control abilities when they actually cross the Veil, as seen with the desire demons in Broken Circle.  The point is that it is not "easier" for non-mages to be possessed by demons... nothing in the lore supports that this is even possible, let alone easy.

 

There is obviously a difference between physical inhabitation and mind control... Drass was not an abomination, was he?

There is a lot of other stuff that have been possessed by like corpses trees and such. As for normal people, well we'll see there is always some more lore to explore.

[DeityDi]

 EVERYTHING Anders went through, he brought upon himself. 

So do most of the people.

He was by no means the first.

 

Anders CHOSE to break the law. 

Well, he didn't CHOSE to be a mage just as Fenris didn't chose to be an elf or a slave.

Fenris also broke the law by escaping, and yet no one give two sh*ts. Because it's a bad law. That justifies everything.

[thetinyevil]

My Hawke agreed with Anders about 90% of what he preached, even if he felt Anders was someone who ignored the plight of elves and the impoverished to focus solely on Mages--which he felt made Anders a hypocrite. Anders talked about how the elves should join with the mages but never talked about how mages could help the elves. Anyway, my Hawke was something of a hypocrite as he chose to live as a "closeted" mage in Hightown with all of his freedoms intact despite the fact so many others were suffering.

In the end, Anders action spurred Hawke to join the rebellion and fight the Templars to achieve freedom for their kind. However, my Hawke killed Anders. Revolutions are never bloodless or clean but they often mean drastic changes for the winners. Still, if mages degenerate to becoming what normal people fear then they will have sacrificed everything about themselves which made them good.

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure death was what Anders wanted.

 

Much like V.

He focused on one group. The group he knew most. He was only one man fighting a uphill battle and had spread himself so thin that he's lucky he didn't kill himself before Act 3. Besides helping one oppressed group would help others wouldn't? Since there are elves who are mages too, it would be like domino effect. At least that is how I see it.