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[Br3admax]

...But Connor mentions using one of Jowans books...Specifically.

I'm glad Connor>almost a thousand years of Chantry research. 

[Hellion Rex]

No. Demons are drawn to mages. So are spirits.
"It is known that mages are able to walk the Fade while completely aware of their surroundings, unlike most others who may only enter the realm as dreamers and leave it scarcely aware of their experience. Demons are drawn to mages, though whether it is because of this awareness or simply by virtue of their magical power in our world is unknown."-Abominations

More or less, I believe Connor started looking at Jowan's books, and his desire was so great he managed to call a desire demon into his dreams and she offered to help.

[Willowhugger]

Mages are aware when they are dreaming. That's the point. I mean it says it plain and simple. 

 

"It is known that mages are able to walk the Fade while completely aware of their surroundings, unlike most others who may only enter the realm as dreamers and leave it scarcely aware of their experience. Demons are drawn to mages, though whether it is because of this awareness or simply by virtue of their magical power in our world is unknown."

[Br3admax]

Seriously, if mages could enter the Fade and wander around on their own then we wouldn't need the circle or Jowan.

We'd just need to take a nap.

They can't. But that's not what awareness means. Mages are aware when dreaming. Dreamers can shape the Fade and enter whenever they choose to. 

[Willowhugger]

I just think the Codex entry makes it so mages CAN move around in the Fade on their own but not that they do every night.

[Br3admax]

"It is known that mages are able to walk the Fade while completely aware of their surroundings, unlike most others who may only enter the realm as dreamers and leave it scarcely aware of their experience. Demons are drawn to mages, though whether it is because of this awareness or simply by virtue of their magical power in our world is unknown."

That really doesn't challenge my point of demons being drawn to mages in the slightest. You know, since this is my quote. 

[Icy Magebane]

Seriously, if mages could enter the Fade and wander around on their own then we wouldn't need the circle or Jowan.

We'd just need to take a nap.

They may have needed a ritual involving lyrium or blood to go to some specific part of the Fade... otherwise they probably can't control where they wind up if they fall asleep.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm glad Connor>almost a thousand years of Chantry research. 

 

Seriously, him using demonolgy he learned in a book makes less sense then a demon offering him a deal randomly in the fade?

 

I believe in cause and effect over random chance.

[Willowhugger]

That really doesn't challenge my point of demons being drawn to mages in the slightest. You know, since this is my quote. 

 

I never said demons aren't drawn to mages.

I entirely agree they are.

I'm just saying that you probably need to summon them, go through the Harrowing, or be in a place where the Veil is thin for it to happen.

It just so happens there's a LOT of thin veil places in the place.

 

Then mages are very vulnerable to possession if they're weak willed.

[Br3admax]

Pfft, like Battle Mages right?

 

I will repeat what i said many times before.

 

Shields of magic BREAK when swords hit them, look at Mr. Arcane Shield back in the Stolen throne, or Titus in the comics.

 

Barriers break.

Shields splinter and bend. Magic is true power. You'll accept that. Before the end. 

[Hellion Rex]

Seriously, if mages could enter the Fade and wander around on their own then we wouldn't need the circle or Jowan.

Except to enter that one demon's specific demesne, we would need either blood magic or lyrium to send us in with our full consciousness and powers, something we might not have just by going to sleep. On top of that, if we simply slept, there's no guarantee we could enter that demon's place of power or even find the damn place in the Fade.

[Master Warder Z_]

Shields splinter and bend. Magic is true power. You'll accept that. Before the end. 

 

Uh it appears iron is true power based on experience in Dragon Age.

[Willowhugger]

Except to enter that one demon's specific demesne, we would need either blood magic or lyrium to send us in with our full consciousness and powers, something we might not have just by going to sleep. On top of that, if we simply slept, there's no guarantee we could enter that demon's place of power or even find the damn place in the Fade.

 

That's one alternative theory.

[Br3admax]

Uh it appears iron is true power based on experience in Dragon Age.

Without lyrium, the Templars would be nothing....the mages would be nothing to, but they're born with that. 

[The Baconer]

Orlais was apparently interested in acquiring Black Powder or at least Duke Prosper was.

 

The gunpowder wouldn't even be necessary when you can use magic as a substitute, or possibly an enchantment if one would not want to use a mage.

[RustyW]

So basically for someone who knows only a little of DA lore and I have read little in short we have:

Some mages who can not be trusted
Some Templars who can not be trusted
Mages feel oppressed as not all bad yet are tarred with the same brush
Templars feel they doing the oppression for the 'greater good'

Yet surely answer would be play by the rules, I.e. No blood magic and demon/rift stuff then you will be fine and use magic for the benefit of all, such as healing and construction and so forth.

Would that be fair?

[Br3admax]

Seriously, him using demonolgy he learned in a book makes less sense then a demon offering him a deal randomly in the fade?

 

I believe in cause and effect over random chance.

Alienage Orphanage? Olivia? Meredith's sister? Children don't need magical knowledge to summon demons. 

[TTTX]

Seriously, him using demonolgy he learned in a book makes less sense then a demon offering him a deal randomly in the fade?

 

I believe in cause and effect over random chance.

Demons can sense what a person desires and offered it to you we saw that in a couple of missions in DA2

[Willowhugger]

The gunpowder wouldn't even be necessary when you can use magic as a substitute, or possibly an enchantment if one would not want to use a mage.

 

I did love Hawke and the Gunpowder conspiracy.

"We have LYRIUM. Why do we need gunpowder?"

[Icy Magebane]

The gunpowder wouldn't even be necessary when you can use magic as a substitute, or possibly an enchantment if one would not want to use a mage.

I dunno... guns are pretty powerful.  They could be used by knights and don't require the dwarves and the lyrium trade to fucntion...

[Willowhugger]

Alienage Orphanage? Olivia? Meredith's sister? Children don't need magical knowledge to summon demons. 

 

Thin Veil? Unconscious summoning?

The girl in Asunder Cole kills can do fireballs without formal training.

I don't see Demon summoning as any different.

 

Which is, admittedly, an argument for training everyone.

David Gaider confirmed with Solas that Hedge Mages are entirely capable of making their own spells with practice and willpower.

[thetinyevil]

If this were true then somebody would have noticed it over the past couple thousand years... nearly everything in the lore is based upon how mages and mundanes interact with the Fade.  Let's not rewrite history to suit our arguments...

You need to read what I said. I wasn't saying that it was common just a possibility.

[Willowhugger]

But yes, Solas managed to teach himself all manner of Spirit Summoning tricks.

All by his lonesome.

[Icy Magebane]

You need to read what I said. I wasn't saying that it was common just a possibility.

And I think it's unlikely to the point of being nearly impossible.  So far I've heard of one non-mage being possessed by a pride demon and there is no information on how it happened.  You did say that it was easier for demons to possess non-mages than mages, yes?

[raging_monkey]

So basically for someone who knows only a little of DA lore and I have read little in short we have:Some mages who can not be trustedSome Templars who can not be trustedMages feel oppressed as not all bad yet are tarred with the same brushTemplars feel they doing the oppression for the 'greater good'Yet surely answer would be play by the rules, I.e. No blood magic and demon/rift stuff then you will be fine and use magic for the benefit of all, such as healing and construction and so forth.Would that be fair?

those are all true but people will always fall into extremes or middle grounds which breeds conflict