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Mages or Templars?


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#751
Master Warder Z_

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Anders is a cannibal Abomination. How does that help your case?

 

An exploding abomination cannibal.

 

:P

 

I really wish we could have thrown him off a high place like that, and just watch him explode on impact like the Hind D back in MGS.

 

Spoiler

 

8:57-9:15 for the relevant bit.

 

I mean come on, cheesy one liner and walking away from an explosion?! That should have been how Anders died.



#752
The Baconer

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My Hawke knows any mage rebellion against the Templars is doomed.

Templars are too powerful to fight with magic.

 

That's why he has friends with bows and swords!

 

Or guns. What could possibly be a better weapon to use against heavily-armored dudes who can disrupt magic? I'd really like to see what happens when someone in Thedas manages to invent this stuff.



#753
Willowhugger

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Poor Anders.

Playing Awakening now is so awkward.

MageWarden: I think a willing bond would be great.

Justice: Really?

Also, I was the guy who finally convinced Anders to murder Templars.

So...uh...oops?



#754
Lulupab

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Gaider said years ago the comic in question wasn't canon.
 
He even mentions it in this brief interview on this very subject.
 
http://www.reddit.co...tus_of_ogb_and/
 
Which can be found in the blog question but assuming you don't want to read?
 
Here http://dgaider.tumbl...uch-pull-a-lead
 
So i don't care what the comics has say, what an article said or anything to that effect.
 
The daddy of DA lore said it never happened.
 
It never happened.


But the comic and the short story are different. The comic mentions Rolan's death in story. So if this comic is not canon this doesn't affect the short story. The short story is written by Jennifer Hepler who also wrote Anders for DA2 and its shows the time between awakening and DA2. Its not a comic, its describing what happened to Anders between the two games because prior to that we didn't know how they merged and why Anders left the wardens.
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#755
Willowhugger

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Or guns. What could possibly be a better weapon to use against heavily-armored dudes who can disrupt magic? I'd really like to see what happens when someone in Thedas manages to invent this stuff.

Very true.

Hawke should get some Lyrium bombs.

It's like killing drug addicts with a heroin gun.

 

:-)

Sorry, Saints Row was leaking in.


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#756
Br3admax

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"Abomination" is over simplification here. Tell me one thing inhuman about Anders other than the powers. What, other people don't defend themselves when tormented by chantry for their whole life? When they send spies to grey warden ranks to torment them further? Anders didn't go MUHAHA you die, he was cornered and naturally he defended himself. He is as human as the next man. He helps people, he kills people, he falls in love etch... he does all that because he is a person not some mindless ugly thing who is driven by malice.

He decapitated a man and drank him dry, thinking that it tasted like honey. Yep. Nothing inhuman about that. 


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#757
Icy Magebane

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"Abomination" is over simplification here. Tell me one thing inhuman about Anders other than the powers. What, other people don't defend themselves when tormented by chantry for their whole life? When they send spies to grey warden ranks to torment them further? Anders didn't go MUHAHA you die, he was cornered and naturally he defended himself. He is as human as the next man. He helps people, he kills people, he falls in love etch... he does all that because he is a person not some mindless ugly thing who is driven by malice.

In early conversations with Anders in DA2, he describes his link with Justice as a "frenzy" that comes over him at times and that he sometimes finds out much later what he may have done.  His body and mind are partially controlled by a spirit, and this influence increases the longer we know him.  He is not human, he is an abomination, pure and simple.  The only difference between Anders and a demonic abomination is that Justice started off non-hostile and curious.  Over time he was corrupted by his experiences with the mortal realm and Anders' negative mindset.  Thus Justice becomes more and more violent and controlling, to the point of nearly killing a young mage whose only crime was attempting to surrender to Ser Alrik.  Anders can't even stop himself from doing it on his own, Hawke has to intervene or the girl dies.


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#758
Lulupab

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He decapitated a man and drank him dry, thinking that it tasted like honey. Yep. Nothing inhuman about that.


The blood splashed in his mouth, if it makes any difference, but that happened during Vengeance mode. Something like psychological problems people have such as two personalities, still human. Didn't you notice that in Vengeance form Anders is healed when he delivers the killing blow in the game? Its called "blood of my enemy" but vengeance has to be active aka the spirit must be in control.

#759
The Baconer

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Hawke should get some Lyrium bombs.

 

Or the "Anders Special". They better explain just how he managed to make something like that, because how have we not heard of a weapon like that being used more often?



#760
Icy Magebane

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The blood splashed in his mouth, if it makes any difference, but that happened during Vengeance mode. Something like psychological problems people have such as two personalities, still human. Didn't you notice that in Vengeance form Anders is healed when he delivers the killing blow in the game? Its called "blood of my enemy" but vengeance has to be active aka the spirit must be in control.

To paraphrase Anders: "even the greatest scholar couldn't tell you where I begin and Justice ends."  Go back and play DA2 and listen carefully to what Anders tells Hawke.  He constantly says things like "our thoughts are one," and so on... he never once tries to claim that the two of them are separate entities.



#761
Br3admax

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The blood splashed in his mouth, if it makes any difference, but that happened during Vengeance mode. Something like psychological problems people have such as two personalities, still human. Didn't you notice that in Vengeance form Anders is healed when he delivers the killing blow in the game? Its called "blood of my enemy" but vengeance has to be active aka the spirit must be in control.

Anders and Vengeance are the same person. The fact that he has multiple personalities doesn't excuse him eating people. 



#762
Lulupab

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In early conversations with Anders in DA2, he describes his link with Justice as a "frenzy" that comes over him at times and that he sometimes finds out much later what he may have done.  His body and mind are partially controlled by a spirit, and this influence increases the longer we know him.  He is not human, he is an abomination, pure and simple.  The only difference between Anders and a demonic abomination is that Justice started off non-hostile and curious.  Over time he was corrupted by his experiences with the mortal realm and Anders' negative mindset.  Thus Justice becomes more and more violent and controlling, to the point of nearly killing a young mage whose only crime was attempting to surrender to Ser Alrik.  Anders can't even stop himself from doing it on his own, Hawke has to intervene or the girl dies.


Except the line where he says he forgets things ONLY happens in rivalry path so it remains a plot hole which path is canon. In friendship route Anders glows on much lesser occasions (aka controlled by Justice) and the codex specifically mentions Anders ONLY loses control when fighting Templars, otherwise thanks to Hawke's help as a friend (or lover) he has gained control over the spirit within. Its also harder to kill him on this path because you are not killing a psychopath who has lost himself, you are killing a person with different opinions. So what you said is wrong. People lose control when they are angry too, its just worse in Anders' case.

#763
Master Warder Z_

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Or the "Anders Special". They better explain just how he managed to make something like that, because how have we not heard of a weapon like that being used more often?

 

To be honest, i have no idea why people haven't put those reagents together.



#764
Lulupab

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To paraphrase Anders: "even the greatest scholar couldn't tell you where I begin and Justice ends."  Go back and play DA2 and listen carefully to what Anders tells Hawke.  He constantly says things like "our thoughts are one," and so on... he never once tries to claim that the two of them are separate entities.


Mirror. Go play again and friend Anders. They have merged but he is more Anders in friendship route in opposed to rivalry path. And as I said we cannot say which one is true. Anders shares his body and mind with Justice and normally for the most part Anders is in control, but when he is fighting Templars it reverses. Justice takes full control.

#765
Master Warder Z_

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Anders and Vengeance are the same person. The fact that he has multiple personalities doesn't excuse him eating people. 

 

Hawke: Your insane!

 

Anders: I know.

 

._.



#766
Lulupab

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Anders and Vengeance are the same person. The fact that he has multiple personalities doesn't excuse him eating people.


They share same body and mind is more correct. One is always more dominantly in control than the other. Jennifer Hepler has even said that its a form of ultimate intimacy (not sexual) because you share everything you are, body and soul with another being.

#767
EmperorSahlertz

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"Abomination" is over simplification here. Tell me one thing inhuman about Anders other than the powers. What, other people don't defend themselves when tormented by chantry for their whole life? When they send spies to grey warden ranks to torment them further? Anders didn't go MUHAHA you die, he was cornered and naturally he defended himself. He is as human as the next man. He helps people, he kills people, he falls in love etch... he does all that because he is a person not some mindless ugly thing who is driven by malice.

No it isn't. He is a mage possessed by a demonic spirit from the Fade. He is an Abomination. Short and simple. Abominations aren't all one-dimensional simple creatures of destruction. Depending on the complexity of the demon in question the Abomination gains complexity aswell. Vengeance is a much more complex emotion than rage, and thus the Abomination Anders had more complexity than the average Rage Abomination. It of course also helps that Justice, when it was still a spirit, chose to possess Anders without destroying the human self of Anders, which demons and spirits evidently can, but chose to coexist as a single being with Anders.



#768
The Baconer

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To be honest, i have no idea why people haven't put those reagents together.

 

I mean, there certainly must be some kind of magical process in addition to the physical materials... but there's still so many potential applications!

 

Just load up a "party boat" and send it on a crash course with that big bad Qunari dreadnought!



#769
Lulupab

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Hawke: Your insane!
 
Anders: I know.
 
._.


Btw there are short stories written for almost all companions of DA2 to show what happened to them between the games or simply their past lives before becoming a companion in DA2. All of those stories are canon and are written by the person who wrote the character itself. Ander's short story is no different. There is a similar one on Merril too along with Isabela etc...

#770
Master Warder Z_

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I mean, there certainly must be some kind of magical process in addition to the physical materials... but there's still so many potential applications!

 

Just load up a "party boat" and send it on a crash course with that big bad Qunari dreadnought!

 

Indeed, i'd assumed as much from the gravitonic effect of the explosion "lifting" the pieces of the chantry upward as it detonated.

 

Its probably some odd combination of magic and explosives.



#771
Br3admax

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They share same body and mind is more correct. One is always more dominantly in control than the other. Jennifer Hepler has even said that its a form of ultimate intimacy (not sexual) because you share everything you are, body and soul with another being.

So again, Anders likes to eat people or Anders likes to eat people. Take your pick. 



#772
Willowhugger

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Given that Anders gets the ingredients for Gunpowder together according to Star Trek's episode of "Arena."

I'm of the mind that Anders got the Qunari formula for gunpowder, combined it with Lyrium, then supercharged it with magic.

 

Which, if Anders had lived in my playthrough, would have given them a big ass advantage against the Templars.

 

Oops.

My headcanon is a Tal-Vashoth Saarebas gave Anders the formula after some passionate sweaty Kossith sex.



#773
Master Warder Z_

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My headcanon is a Tal-Vashoth Saarebas gave Anders the formula after some passionate sweaty Kossith sex.

 

Icky.



#774
Lulupab

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No it isn't. He is a mage possessed by a demonic spirit from the Fade. He is an Abomination. Short and simple. Abominations aren't all one-dimensional simple creatures of destruction. Depending on the complexity of the demon in question the Abomination gains complexity aswell. Vengeance is a much more complex emotion than rage, and thus the Abomination Anders had more complexity than the average Rage Abomination. It of course also helps that Justice, when it was still a spirit, chose to possess Anders without destroying the human self of Anders, which demons and spirits evidently can, but chose to coexist as a single being with Anders.


So Pride is not complicated? geez, what a emotional scholar you are. And to use the word "short" and "simple" when describing Anders then calling it complex was the most brilliant thing you did today. You do realize Justice spirits are on par with Desire demons and given that spirits can vary in power as they change, Vengeance was probably much stronger. You cannot compare it to rage abomination which is the weakest abomination known to Thedas. All evidence we have of spirit possession, be it Wynne or seers, shows us that the spirit never destroys the human host so it was not only Justice did. This is also why Spirit merging is stronger than demonic abomination because there is synergy between the host and spirit.

#775
raging_monkey

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So Pride is not complicated? geez, what a emotional scholar you are. And to use the word "short" and "simple" when describing Anders then calling it complex was the most brilliant thing you did today. You do realize Justice spirits are on par with Desire demons and given that spirits can vary in power as they change, Vengeance was probably much stronger. You cannot compare it to rage abomination which is the weakest abomination known to Thedas. All evidence we have of spirit possession, be it Wynne or seers, shows us that the spirit never destroys the human host so it was not only Justice did. This is also why Spirit merging is stronger than demonic abomination because there is synergy between the host and spirit.

still by chantry amd general thedosian defination a abomination