3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

It was on the old forum before it was updated. I spent the last hour trying to find that post he put it in through google since I can't go to the old site and look up the old threads, and I'll keep looking. 

 

While I do so, I think others who were around then can back up my assertion. If that doesn't happen, I'll keep looking for it. 

 

No it wasn't.

 

Gaider merely said in a normal ROA the spared mages would've been turned tranquil. Nothing about Kirkwall's ROA was normal.

 

Besides Cullen's remark about watching them for bloodmagic makes zero sense if they're gonna turn them tranquil later.

[EmperorSahlertz]

... And they could have rooted out the insubordinate Templars, and the abusive Templars, and could have helped investigate the mage corruption.

 

But they do have a standard of incompetence to uphold.

I suppose it is fair to flag an entire 900 year old order as incompetent because of ONE case, that they weren't even informed of (supposedly).

[EmperorSahlertz]

A couple mages said that they were going to be made Tranquil even though they had go through their Harrowing. It is also stated in the codex that mages who have been Harrowed have been made tranquil. So there is more than just one.

A couple of Templars also said that Meredith would kill them if they didn't complete their vigil....

[dragonflight288]

No it wasn't.

 

Gaider merely said in a normal ROA the spared mages would've been turned tranquil. Nothing about Kirkwall's ROA was normal.

 

Besides Cullen's remark about watching them for bloodmagic makes zero sense if they're gonna turn them tranquil later.

 

Hmm, it seems we're remembering it differently. 

 

We should look up the exact quote though. Man, I hate googling for things several years old.

[Ryzaki]

Hmm, it seems we're remembering it differently. 

 

We should look up the exact quote though. Man, I hate googling for things several years old.

 

Yeah I remember arguing about it. It wasn't a confirmation that much I remember clearly.

 

Especially since they screwed up the forums and everything's nearly impossible to find now =/

 

Edit: Also it's illegal to make a harrowed mage tranquil. So...yeah. Edit 2: Wait...they can still volunteer for it but those mages didn't volunteer for tranquility =/

[The Baconer]

I suppose it is fair to flag an entire 900 year old order as incompetent because of ONE case, that they weren't even informed of (supposedly).

 

Yes, the one case where they would have mattered the most. They ****ed it up, and now the whole system is ****ed. I'd say that is absolutely incompetence, and negligence. And they knew. Everyone knew. Leliana says the "whole world" was watching Kirkwall and that the Divine considered it the largest threat to Thedas since the Qunari.

 

But even when it gets this bad it is beneath the Seekers' notice, it seems.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It wasn't confirmation. It was Gaider speculating that any mages captured during an Annulment would be made Tranquil. And it was speculation since he used the phrase "I'd imagine". Obviously it isn't really something they've given much thought, and there isn't a clear cut presedence for what will happen to captured mages. Chances are the ones Cullen captured would be kept alive and not tranquilled, since what he says otherwise makes no sense. In contrast mages captured during the hypothetical Annulment of Kinloch Hold in Ferelden would probably all have been either executed or made tranquil.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yes, the one case where they would have mattered the most. They ****ed it up, and now the whole system is ****ed. I'd say that is absolutely incompetence, and negligence. And they knew. Everyone knew. Leliana says the "whole world" was watching Kirkwall and that the Divine considered it the largest threat to Thedas since the Qunari.

 

But even when it gets this bad it is beneath the Seekers' notice, it seems.

Or maybe... just MAYBE... The Seekers wouldn't rush in and act like moronic cowboys, before they had ALL the pieces of the puzzle... You know like police USUALLY works. Sometimes however, the safe approach leads to tragedy.

But I am sure it is easy to be a general AFTER the battle is done.....

[The Baconer]

Or maybe... just MAYBE... The Seekers wouldn't rush in and act like moronic cowboys,

 

Strawman.

 

Sometimes however, the safe approach leads to tragedy.

 

They didn't even begin their "safe approach" until a year after the worst-case scenario had already happened. When your order's directive is to prevent the worst case scenario from happening in the first place, that's shitty.

 

But I am sure it is easy to be a general AFTER the battle is done.....

 

They had seven years to do something... anything. Again, their job is supposed to be preventative, not reactionary.

[MisterJB]

You know, you'd think the Chantry and other Marcher cities would have helped garrison Kirkwall what with the Arishok himself being there with a small army.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Strawman.

 

 

They didn't even begin their "safe approach" until a year after the worst-case scenario had already happened. When your order's directive is to prevent the worst case scenario from happening in the first place, that's shitty.

 

 

They had seven years to do something... anything. Again, their job is supposed to be preventative, not reactionary.

Not a strawman at all, but rather a proposition of the idea that the Seekers would NOT do as you think they would, or even want them to.

 

You don't know wether or not the Seekers were present. You PRESUME you know, but actually you don't. Matter of fact is that there is evidence from at least Act III that the Seekers had a presence in Kirkwall. The previously Qunari occupied compound is sealed off, with the mark of the Seekers imprinted on the lock.

 

And Meredith wasn't doing anything wrong in the first six years of DA2, and what was happening within the Circle was not cause for the Seekers to be present. What was going on in Act III MAY have been enough for the Seekers to pay attention (as evidenced by the presence of their mark in the docks).

[EmperorSahlertz]

You know, you'd think the Chantry and other Marcher cities would have helped garrison Kirkwall what with the Arishok himself being there with a small army.

That would probably have been seen as aggresive provocation of the Qunari and could've sparked a full war. Not what the Chantry wants. Not what they want at all.

[MisterJB]

That would probably have been seen as aggresive provocation of the Qunari and could've sparked a full war. Not what the Chantry wants. Not what they want at all.

What? It's not the qunari's business if the Chantry suddenly decides to station half of the Seekers in Kirkwall.

So, when is that ship coming? Can we give you one?

 

Seriously, qunari are not the type to be afronted by anything. They would have probably understood the need for caution.

[EmperorSahlertz]

What? It's not the qunari's business if the Chantry suddenly decides to station half of the Seekers in Kirkwall.

So, when is that ship coming? Can we give you one?

 

Seriously, qunari are not the type to be afronted by anything. They would have probably understood the need for caution.

Okay let me reiterate. The Chantry would probably fear that it would percieved that way. The Qunari are hard to predict in these matters.

[The Baconer]

Not a strawman at all, but rather a proposition of the idea that the Seekers would NOT do as you think they would, or even want them to.

 

I'd think they would... make inquiries, or investigate, or you know, conduct questioning. But you're saying they wouldn't do that? What then, is your idea of what they should do?

 

 

You don't know wether or not the Seekers were present. You PRESUME you know, but actually you don't.

 

What we know for sure is that the information they had regarding the event was erroneous, and required a further, more in-depth investigation. That this is the case means that they either did not have a presence beyond Leliana, or that they just do shitty work. I think either way Thedas should feel a lot more comfortable if they did not return to work post DA:I.

 

And Meredith wasn't doing anything wrong in the first six years of DA2,

 

What about Meredith?

 

and what was happening within the Circle was not cause for the Seekers to be present.

 

Yes, entire conspiracies operating inside the Circle and undermining the Templar Order is not cause for the Seekers' presence.

[BlueMagitek]

Templars.

 

Mostly because of this board, really.  I used to be fairly pro mage.  Then I came here.

[raging_monkey]

Templars. Mostly because of this board, really.  I used to be fairly pro mage.  Then I came here.

do what i do, moderation

[BlueMagitek]

do what i do, moderation

Ah, even moderation needs to be taken in moderation.

[raging_monkey]

Ah, even moderation needs to be taken in moderation.

very true wont lie used to be a blind pro mage, spared anders even despite dissagreeing but then i red asunder and paid more attention to the forums. Now im a moderate. But watching the debates heat up is fun to watch

[Shadow Fox]

Templars.

 

Mostly because of this board, really.  I used to be fairly pro mage.  Then I came here.

Playing devil's advocate for the Templars was kinda fun.

[Steelcan]

Templars.

 

Mostly because of this board, really.  I used to be fairly pro mage.  Then I came here.

me too

[Br3admax]

Yeah...honestly, I didn't even care to actually look into it. I just saw people complaining, and I wanted to help them. I thought that magic couldn't be that bad if the player and their friends could use it. 

 

 

I was a fool. 

[SgtSteel91]

This forum has honestly made me dislike both sides but I dislike the templars a little more

 

And I feel like some of the pro-templars here are either trolls or sociopaths; either way it adds to my dislike

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Pro-Mage. 

 

The Chanty uses lyrium, enchanted items, healers, alchemists, runecrafters, blood magic (phylactery) and mages to fight in wars they cannot fight. Yet they oppress mages, meddle in the affairs of the Dalish and their mages, prohibit some schools of magic. 

 

The Chantry and by that extension, the Templars do not exist to keep the peace or order. They also do not exist to regulate mages. They exist because they are a cult who believes in half truths and they exist to monopolize specific use of magic for their own ends. Cults and monopolizers need some target they can pigeonhole and justify their actions. In this case, it is all mages. 

 

The Chantry and the Templars are not very different from Dragon Cults and Dragon Cultists. The difference is the "dragons" in the Chantry's case has been burned or just doesn't exist. 

 

Therefore, the Chantry is irrelevant. One can train city guards and people to fight against magic should magic and mages become a problem. There is multiple combat styles, enchantment, potions, poisons, traps that can combat magic very effectively. 

 

There is absolutely no need to create a cult around a woman who said that there is a god, said a few things that people take way too seriously, did things that people who claim to love her censor out of their narratives.  

[Seboist]

Siding with the Templars means that all mages will be killed or made Tranquil. You know that right?

 

That's the positive aspect of siding with them, yeah.