3241 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

A war (in which the mages started, which makes them the aggressors) isn't self defence. Again, let's drop this, we aren't going to agree.

 

A democratic vote to separate from the Chantry of Andraste wasn't a declaration of war.

[Lulupab]

Why? Because it made you laugh?
 
Don't be silly.
 
Beyond that, Tranquil are useful and Dreamers just need to die.
 
Like Dragons.
 
And Darkspawn.
 
And Qunari.
 
And Tevinters.

I don't see how Orlais is better, same crimes with different methods. Seeing as you are advocating a genocide of whole nation, doesn't hurt to do it to one more.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm not sure how effective mage Seekers would be if their job is to arrest Templars...

 

Its pure insanity.

 

must be a product of red lyrium.

[LobselVith8]

What you are describing isn't genocide, but without Xil here or at least a link to her posts to put this in context, there is little that can be gained by debating this.  How about if we wait for Xil to return and let her argue her own points, unless you'd like to make some similar statement and defend that?

 

Sure. Taking a side in the Mage-Templar War and defeating the templars isn't genocide.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I don't see how Orlais is better, same crimes with different methods. Seeing as you are advocating a genocide of whole nation, doesn't hurt to do it to one more.

Celene isn't capable of blood magic, if nothing else.

[raging_monkey]

Relax, just screwing with Z. We've had this debate many, many times.

ive seen you guys debate and your response made actually laugh

I agree, the freedom of 100 peasants in a village or 100 people in a town to live it trumps a mage who becomes an abomination and kills them all.  100 > 1  O.P. loses

both groups freedom matter

[Master Warder Z_]

Seeing as you are advocating a genocide of whole nation

 

Incorrect; i am advocating the destructing and dismantling of a state.

 

The refuse that clung to that pit can go where they like after its a broken ruin.

 

I just want the Imperium gone.

[Master Warder Z_]

A democratic vote to separate from the Chantry of Andraste wasn't a declaration of war.

 

Yes it was.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

both groups freedom matter

A Circle mage is more free than an apostate abomination. At least the few cubic inches inside their skulls are their own.

[raging_monkey]

Yes it was.

so if i wished for a democratic vote of separation which goes through peacefully i am make my intent for war? That seems silly my friend

[Hellion Rex]

Yes it was.

I kinda agree. The mages knew exactly what they were in for when they chose to secede.

[Master Warder Z_]

so if i wished for a democratic vote of separation which goes through peacefully i am make my intent for war? That seems silly my friend

 

Do you ignore the context that the vote was taken in?

 

Is the decision by it self in a vacuum in your opinion?

 

It isn't in mine.

 

Its akin to declaring war at the time it was done, and i view it as such.

 

And given a second formal vote basically affirmed that, there really isn't much room to argue.

 

...Wait, never mind, i forgot you didn't read Asunder.

 

My bad.

[Lulupab]

Incorrect; i am advocating the destructing and dismantling of a state.
 
The refuse that clung to that pit can go where they like after its a broken ruin.
 
I just want the Imperium gone.

"Tevinters" means the people of Tevinter Imperium, not the state. So was it simply wording then? Balance of Thedas is kept because the Qunari and Tevinter keep each other in check. Both have the power to invade Thedas but none of them can because they are fighting each other. (for now)

Also unlike a faction which gets dismantled with all leaders killed, a nation must be obliterated or subjugated. You cannot simply want the Imperium gone without killing at least half the people, given they are the oldest human nation on Thedas you'll probably have to kill more.

[SnakeCode]

A democratic vote to separate from the Chantry of Andraste wasn't a declaration of war.

They didn't have the right to make that choice in the first place, and they knew what the decision would result in. That's a gross simplification of the events that transpired. People like Adrian manipulating events with the end goal being open conflict.

 

When a criminal resists arrest, it is an act of aggression. It WAS, essentially, a declaration of war.

[Master Warder Z_]

I kinda agree. The mages knew exactly what they were in for when they chose to secede.

 

It made me feel so conflicted!

 

I'm usually pro secession! :'(

[Lulupab]

I kinda agree. The mages knew exactly what they were in for when they chose to secede.

They could have simply said no, disbanding of college of enchanters and tightening the grip on all circles was excessive and made it obvious that "diplomacy" doesn't exist in circles, its tyranny.

[Master Warder Z_]

"Tevinters" means the people of Tevinter Imperium, not the state

 

Yes, their Warleaders, members of their senate, chantry, circle and Archon and his court are all Tevinters.

 

Tevinter to me is short hand with those that rule the country.

 

The people beneath them are just cogs in that little machine, they aren't worth considering in the destruction of the system, especially considering i wouldn't go out of my way to harm them.

 

I mean they live in Tevinter, i think their life is bad enough, last thing they need is some foreigner coming up and deciding to kill everyone there, no i just want those that matter to die.

 

So Tevinters.

[raging_monkey]

Do you ignore the context that the vote was taken in? Is the decision by it self in a vacuum in your opinion? It isn't in mine. Its akin to declaring war at the time it was done, and i view it as such. And given a second formal vote basically affirmed that, there really isn't much room to argue. ...Wait, never mind, i forgot you didn't read Asunder. My bad.

i did 6x but i disagree with you statement. Nothing personal

[Master Warder Z_]

They could have simply said no, disbanding of college of enchanters and tightening the grip on all circles was excessive and made it obvious that "diplomacy" doesn't exist in circles, its tyranny.

 

Jesus christ, how many times back and forth.

 

The College was disbanded because of Fiona and her idiocy, The tightening grip? Orsino and Ander's idiocy, Every thing you cite was a result of a Mage.

 

Diplomacy doesn't exist, because of mages.

[Beerfish]

Book spoilers below....

 

And the whole mages seceding was a rigged joke lead by a traitorous stupid son of wynne.  Who 3 seconds after her body was cold totally threw away all that she had stood for all of her life, stepped into her roll without any real qualification other than he was her son who had also had a massive conflict of interest seeing as he had been involved in some actions totally counter to the mages ever remaining in circles.  Rhys showed through that whole book that he was a selfish ****** who could care less about anyone other than himself and his small circle of interests.  He seemed to get away with this behaviour by acting innocent and telling the odd joke.

[Ieldra]

Yes it was.

So I guess the Scottish are about to declare war on the English next week?

[Lulupab]

Jesus christ, how many times back and forth.

The College was disbanded because of Fiona and her idiocy, The tightening grip? Orsino and Ander's idiocy, Every thing you cite was a result of a Mage.

Diplomacy doesn't exist, because of mages.

So Kirkwall was solely Orsiono's fault? I'm not even gonna mention Anders as he was a grey warden and possessed and an apostate, HE HAD NOTHING TO WITH CIRCLES.

Why other circles have to pay for it? By your own standards all knight commanders must have gone through a full review and the order must have become more careful with recruitment, but obviously it didn't happen aka tyranny against the mages.

[LobselVith8]

They didn't have the right to make that choice in the first place, and they knew what the decision would result in. That's a gross simplification of the events that transpired. People like Adrian manipulating events with the end goal being open conflict.

 

You're not going to persuade me that Lambert dissolving the Nevarran Accord, separating the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order from the Chantry, and sending his templar armies after the mages should be overlooked as the declaration of war because the many mages didn't want to live under the rule of the Chantry anymore and took a democratic vote on whether or not to separate.

 

When a criminal resists arrest, it is an act of aggression. It WAS, essentially, a declaration of war.

 

You seem to be forgetting that Lambert's forces also separated from the Chantry.

[Master Warder Z_]

So I guess the Scottish are about to declare war on the English next week?

 

Wouldn't be the first time.

[Master Warder Z_]

You seem to be forgetting that Lambert's forces also separated from the Chantry.

 

For actually legitimate reasoning sure.